HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Texas & Southcentral > Austin


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #221  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 3:25 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,821
I'm torn on the airport lease thing... I simply don't know enough.

In regard to american, etc...

We are seeing old business models that didn't evolve die off. The hub/spoke system and small aircraft do not make sense anymore.

Meanwhile we see the growth and added flights of the new business models - SW and JetBlue...

Lets hope we don't subsidize dead business models! ...if there is demand a better business will come in to address the need [air travel]
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #222  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 3:37 PM
nixcity's Avatar
nixcity nixcity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Austin, TX.
Posts: 768
If this hurts the possibility of funding the light rail line then it is negative.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #223  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 4:30 PM
GoldenBoot's Avatar
GoldenBoot GoldenBoot is offline
Member since 2001
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 3,261
Leasing, or even selling ABIA, is a brilliant idea. The city should have done this a long time ago!

It would be a huge advantage to have our airport run by a free market corporation who has experience in running medium-to-large airports. By allowing ABIA to enter the free market economy, those who run it should be more inclined to listen to their “customers” and make necessary changes to please said customers – a lot quicker that the City of Austin would!!!!

Expansion of facilities and routes would occur in a much shorter timeframe that the City of Austin can accomplish. Having ABIA run by an outside corporation will free-up many more avenues to funding project than are open to a municipality-run facility.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the City wakes up and realizes this potential boon. However, we’re talking about the City of Austin here…
__________________
AUSTIN (City): 974,447 +1.30% - '20-'22 | AUSTIN MSA (5 counties): 2,473,275 +8.32% - '20-'23
SAN ANTONIO (City): 1,472,909 +2.69% - '20-'22 | SAN ANTONIO MSA (8 counties): 2,703,999 +5.70% - '20-'23
AUS-SAT REGION (MSAs/13 counties): 5,177,274 +6.94% - '20-'23 | *SRC: US Census*
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #224  
Old Posted May 9, 2008, 4:52 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,821
OK... I'm for selling or leasing. IT would allow us to pursue a majore infrastructure investment without taxing or bonds... probably make our airport bigger/more efficient.


On that note... we made a list with some impressive company:

this time "Tripadvisor's 2008 Travelers Choice Destination Awards"; yes i know lists are frowned upon on this site and i have done my fair share of frowning regarding lists but i thought some people may be interested in this regarding future holiday destinations. Tripadvisor is one of my favourite travel websites

not saying i fully agree with it; the town where i was born got into the top 50 destinations in the world, yeah its nice and all with a great nightlife but i doubt it deserves a place that high and salzburg at number two in europe personally i wouldn't have salzburg in my top 3 austrian destination but there you go


Quote:
2008 Travelers' Choice World Destinations

1. Milford Sound, New Zealand
2. Queenstown, New Zealand
3. Philipsburg, St. Maarten
4. Cayo Largo, Cuba
5. Rhodes, Greece
6. Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomas
7. Cruz Bay, St. John
8. Bridgetown, Barbados
9. Banff, Canada
10. Lake Tahoe, California

2008 Travelers' Choice U.S. Destinations

1. Lake Tahoe, California
2. Big Sur, California
3. San Francisco, California
4. Poipu, Hawaii
5. Sedona, Arizona
6. New Orleans, Louisiana
7. Carmel, California
8. Napa, California
9. Lahaina, Hawaii
10. La Jolla, California
11. Jackson, Wyoming
12. Wailea, Hawaii
13. West Yellowstone, Montana
14. Honolulu, Hawaii
15. Hani, Hawaii
16. Bar Harbor, Maine
17. Boulder, Colorado
18. Charleston, South Carolina
19. Monterey, California
20. Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
21. Santa Fe, New Mexico
22. Estes Park, Colorado
23. New York City, New York
24. Austin, Texas
25. Washington D.C.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #225  
Old Posted May 10, 2008, 3:35 AM
bgrn198 bgrn198 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 60
I'm curious as to how well Express Jet is doing on it's route from Austin to Tucson? cause Southwest always was full flying From Austin to Phoenix also it would be nice if Southwest added another direct flight from Austin to Harlingen cause on holidays like fourth of July that filght as full I tried to get a flight onn it but couldn't I had to fly Contenental into Houston and most other times i've flown to the Valley the flight was crowded.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #226  
Old Posted May 22, 2008, 5:54 AM
KevinFromTexas's Avatar
KevinFromTexas KevinFromTexas is offline
Meh
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Austin <------------> Birmingham?
Posts: 57,327
There's a discussion going on over in the 'Transportation' section of the forum about ABIA and Austin becoming a hub. Feel free to jump in:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=151513
__________________
Conform or be cast out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #227  
Old Posted May 23, 2008, 10:23 PM
MAH4546 MAH4546 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: los angeles
Posts: 799
Two more destinations bite the dust, as Austin will lose non-stop service to Tucson and Jacksonville - both operated by XJET - on August 23rd.
__________________
los angeles
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #228  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 12:47 AM
LoneStarMike's Avatar
LoneStarMike LoneStarMike is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,264
So won't that leave just 5 daily Expressjet departures? 2 to ABQ, 2 to MSY and 1 to ONT?

edited to add - What about AUS-ONT? If I try to make a reservation in that city-pair at xjet.com, I see one daily flight through August 22. After that (checking several random dates in late Aug, Sept and Oct,) I get a message every time that there are no seats available.

Also, if I go here:

http://timetables.oag.com/aus/flights.asp

and try to view schedules after August 22, Expressjet's current daly nonstop beteen AUS and ONT is no longer listed. I suspect that's another city pair that's being dropped and if that's the case Express jet will have only 4 daily departures remaining.

If that's the case, I wonder if AUS can convince Expressjet to consolidate it's operations at Gate 1 - the ground-floor commuter. That would open up Gate 4 for another carrier - maybe JetBlue.

Also, what are your thoughts on AA possible giving up Gate 25, Mark? It seems like with AA's upcoming reductions in the fall, that 5th gate wouldn't really be needed. Then again, they may want to hang on to it just to keep it out of the hands of other carriers who might want to expand.

Last edited by LoneStarMike; May 24, 2008 at 1:38 AM. Reason: additional info
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #229  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 4:14 AM
MAH4546 MAH4546 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: los angeles
Posts: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneStarMike View Post

Also, what are your thoughts on AA possible giving up Gate 25, Mark? It seems like with AA's upcoming reductions in the fall, that 5th gate wouldn't really be needed. Then again, they may want to hang on to it just to keep it out of the hands of other carriers who might want to expand.
I'm not really sure. I think AA will just hang on to it. While AUS had a great early year, it's already starting to "crumble" just like every single other U.S. airport, and I don't think anybody is interested in expanding right now.
__________________
los angeles
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #230  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 2:28 PM
texboy texboy is offline
constructor extrodinaire!
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,616
So sounds like Austin won't have its current 52 nonstops by the end of the year....If Im counting correctly and remembering if other carriers serve those destinations, It seems like the total for nonstops will be at about 46? Correct me if I'm wrong here....

Thats close to SA again which has about 42? and I believe they've only had one or two carriers announce pulling nonstops that currently are the only carriers on a route.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #231  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 7:19 PM
MAH4546 MAH4546 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: los angeles
Posts: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by texboy View Post
So sounds like Austin won't have its current 52 nonstops by the end of the year....If Im counting correctly and remembering if other carriers serve those destinations, It seems like the total for nonstops will be at about 46? Correct me if I'm wrong here....

Thats close to SA again which has about 42? and I believe they've only had one or two carriers announce pulling nonstops that currently are the only carriers on a route.
San Antonio is losing non-stops too, make no mistake. ExpressJet is ending flights to Raleigh, for example.
__________________
los angeles
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #232  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 7:19 PM
Jdawgboy's Avatar
Jdawgboy Jdawgboy is offline
Representing the ATX!!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,738
the way things are going with the gas prices, alot of airports around the country will feel the hit not just Austin... San Antonio will feel the hit as well.
__________________
"GOOD TIMES!!!" Jerri Blank (Strangers With Candy)

Last edited by Jdawgboy; May 24, 2008 at 7:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #233  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 7:59 PM
Dom"n"Converse's Avatar
Dom"n"Converse Dom"n"Converse is offline
Hmmm....
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 159
We have, we're losing flights that not too many people use.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #234  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 9:19 PM
LoneStarMike's Avatar
LoneStarMike LoneStarMike is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by texboy View Post
So sounds like Austin won't have its current 52 nonstops by the end of the year....If Im counting correctly and remembering if other carriers serve those destinations, It seems like the total for nonstops will be at about 46? Correct me if I'm wrong here....
We're losing seven nonstop markets, so we'll be down to 45.

The seven we are losing are Mexico City, Raleigh-Durham, Seattle, Orange County, Jacksonville, Tucson, and Ontario.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #235  
Old Posted May 25, 2008, 1:24 PM
LoneStarMike's Avatar
LoneStarMike LoneStarMike is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoot View Post
Boys...Neither ABIA nor SAIA are "major" airports (i.e., "large hubs"). It will be many, many years before they will be officially considered "major" airports. According to the Department of Transportation's National Plan of Integrated Airport Systems (NPIAS) classification of airports, they both are considered "medium hubs," and would roughly have to double their enplanements to qualify for "large hub" status.

And with the way things are going for the airlines today, most experts are in agreement that further expansion of routes may not be seen until at least 2009.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXboom View Post
GB,

I may be mistaken but I thought both were considered "small" commercial airports by FAA standards.

Once total passenger count surpasses 10M then they go to "medium" status...

...could be wrong but I though I read that some time ago.
This was mentioned in Chapter 7 of ABIA's current master plan

Quote:
FAA classifies commercial service airports depending on the percentage of total enplanements for the U.S. In this classification system, ABIA is classified as a Medium hub airport, which enplanes between 0.25% and 1% of the total U.S. enplanements (about 1.8 million to 7.1 million enplanements based on calendar year 2000 traffic data published by FAA)
Keep in mind that an enplanement is simply a departing passenger. Of the 8,885,391 total passengers we had last year, 4,552,481 were enplanements. The rest were either deplanements (arriving passengers) or through passengers.

Source
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #236  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 8:01 PM
Jdawgboy's Avatar
Jdawgboy Jdawgboy is offline
Representing the ATX!!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,738
Suppose the city does end up selling the Airport to that Australian company... What do ya'll think of how that would impact everything from expansion timelines to new direct flights ect...?
__________________
"GOOD TIMES!!!" Jerri Blank (Strangers With Candy)

Last edited by Jdawgboy; May 26, 2008 at 10:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #237  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 8:17 PM
LoneStarMike's Avatar
LoneStarMike LoneStarMike is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoot View Post
Leasing, or even selling ABIA, is a brilliant idea. The city should have done this a long time ago!

It would be a huge advantage to have our airport run by a free market corporation who has experience in running medium-to-large airports. By allowing ABIA to enter the free market economy, those who run it should be more inclined to listen to their “customers” and make necessary changes to please said customers – a lot quicker that the City of Austin would!!!!

Expansion of facilities and routes would occur in a much shorter timeframe that the City of Austin can accomplish. Having ABIA run by an outside corporation will free-up many more avenues to funding project than are open to a municipality-run facility
I'm still neutral on the idea. On the one hand, I do agree that expansion of facilities and routes would most likely occur more quickly, but on the other hand, I think Macquarie would be more inclined to listen to their shareholders rather than their customers. Understandable, since they're a business and in it for the profit.

What if they decide they can get a better return on their investment by putting up all the concessions for rebid and some company like Aramark or Host International wins with a lower bid than whoever operates the concessions now? Do we say goodbye to Maudie's, Amy's Ice Cream, Schlotzky's, Matt's El Rancho, and The Salt Lick and hello to McDonald's, Burger King, Popeye's, Cinnabon, and Starbucks?

Or what if they decide the airport needs more retail kiosks (to maximize their profits) and the only place to put them is where the live music stage is now? I'd hate to see AUS become just another generic airport and lose its character.

I'm still not convinced on this idea just yet, because some things still aren't clear to me.

First of all, the headline of the Austin Business Journal story was:

Could ABIA be privatized? Australian powerhouse mulls the option
Proponents of leasing all or part of ABIA say the newfound revenue could pay for projects such as light rail.

How does this deal work if we only lease part of the airport? Let's say the city decided to just lease the cargo part of the airport to Macquarie for $100 million. Does that $100 million get to go to the city's general fund, and the rest of the revenue earned from the remainder of the airport that the city would still own have to be used only at the airport?

The Austin Business Journal notes that

Quote:
Under a 1996 federal pilot program, U.S. airports can apply for an exemption from the Federal Aviation Administration. Under that program, up to five U.S. airports can be leased to a private company if the FAA and 65 percent of airlines using the airport give their approval.
If we wind up leasing only part of the airport to this private company are we still eligible for this program? My guess is no because the Austin Business Journal notes that

Quote:
"We are entirely at a very, very conceptual level about how this might work," says a source familiar with Macquarie's conversations in Austin. "Plus, while the big banana might be to go for an FAA exemption ... there are many other steps short of that that Macquarie may be willing to talk to the city about. [Possibilities] run all the way from a management contract to turn over airport operations through a contractual arrangement ... to having them come in and manage one piece of the airport. There's all kinds of ways the city could unload some of the headaches of operating the airport, short of privatization."
It sounds to me like anything less than leasing the whole airport to an outside firm falls short of privatization, and wouldn't qualify for the program that allows the profits to be used outside the airport, but I don't know for sure. Also, it seems like we couldn't lease the land that houses the low-cost terminal, because we've already leased it to GECAS, so how does that play into things?

Second - Isn't this (leasing part of the airport) already what we're doing with GECAS? We leased 40 acres to them and now they own and operate the low-cost terminal & the parking over there until the end of their 30 - year lease. Can the money the airport gets from GECAS for the lease and the city's portion of the profits (if there are any) from the low-cost-terminal go into the city's general fund? (Again, my guess is no, because under this privatization program the airport has to apply for an exemption to the FAA and I don't think the city has done that, plus I think the whole airport has to be leased to qualify.)

Also, If we lease the airport to Macquarie, would it be structured like our lease with GECAS? Remember, in that deal, GECAS pays for the design and construction of a more permanent 8-gate low-cost terminal if the temporary facility does well, and at the end of the 30-year lease, it reverts back to the city.

Would whatever Macquarie builds on airport property revert back to the city at the end of the lease? If Macquerie paid for the design and construction of the East Concourse expansion and later, the South Terminal and we got to keep it after a thirty-year lease, that might convince me that this was a good deal for the city.

Third - the article in the Austin Business Journal said:

Quote:
Proponents of a leasing deal say that leasing ABIA could add up to $500 million to the city's general fund annually, but acknowledge that the road to privatization is fraught with hurdles and public wariness of putting public infrastructure into private hands.
A different version of the story from KXAN says:

Quote:
The Macquarie Group is lobbying City Council members to consider a deal that would allow the company to enter into a long-term lease agreement with Austin. The agreement could result in a $500 million payout. The company would pay the one-time lump sum to the city in return for the rights to operate ABIA.
So which is it? A one-time payment or an annual payment.?

I'm thinking it's only a one time payment, because the Austin Business Journal also noted that

Quote:
ABIA's total operating revenue for the 2007 fiscal year was $81.9 million, and $17 million of that revenue went back into the airport's capital fund, says ABIA spokesman Jim Halbrook.
That makes it sound the like airport made a $17 million profit last year. If that's the case, I don't see how a private company would be able to give us $500 million on an annual basis. If the $500 million is a one-time payment over the life of - say a 30-year lease - that's only 16.67 million per year to the city on an annualized basis. That's less than our $17 million profit last year and one would hope - going forward - that our future profits would grow as our passenger and cargo traffic increased over the next thirty years. Is this really a good deal for the city just to be able to get all this money up front? It sounds like a great idea as a short-term solution for the city's current financial needs, but what are the long-term ramifications?

Last, if we keep things the way they are now (no privatization) and later decide to build light rail from the airport to downtown, UT, and out to Mueller, can the part of the light rail that's on airport property be paid for with revenue generated by the airport?

Whatever happens, it sounds like it's going to be a long process and hopefully we'll get answers to these questions somewhere along the way. Until then, I don't know enough about it to know whether it's a good idea or not.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #238  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 9:16 PM
alexjon's Avatar
alexjon alexjon is offline
Bears of antiquity
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Downtown/First Hill, Seattle, WA
Posts: 8,340
I hope SA gets Seattle flights soon! I want a direct flight back home, but not to ABIA
__________________
"The United States is in no way founded upon the Christian religion." -- George Washington & John Adams in a diplomatic message to Malta
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #239  
Old Posted May 27, 2008, 2:05 PM
texastarkus texastarkus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Far Sub-Urban San Antonio
Posts: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexjon View Post
I hope SA gets Seattle flights soon! I want a direct flight back home, but not to ABIA
Look for the Austin-Seattle announcement on JetBlue soon.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #240  
Old Posted May 27, 2008, 5:28 PM
Dom"n"Converse's Avatar
Dom"n"Converse Dom"n"Converse is offline
Hmmm....
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 159
Quote:
I hope SA gets Seattle flights soon! I want a direct flight back home, but not to ABIA
United does Seattle to SA direct and US and whatever WN is do SA to Seattle direct.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Texas & Southcentral > Austin
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:57 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.