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  #45281  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2019, 3:47 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by aaron38 View Post
The only way “more families” equals “fewer single people” is if the supply of housing is restricted. Otherwise developers will build enough units for everyone who wants to live in a neighborhood. We want these neighborhoods to grow, and grow for everyone. It should not be zero-sum.
I don’t see any issue with an alderman saying he wants more families. That’s natural, kids are natural. The problem is saying “I want ONLY families, and cut that 300 unit building down to 80 units, and make it all 3 bedrooms”.
Fair enough, and maybe it isn't the case here, but Ordo is right, "family units" is a dog whistle for "less scary single people". It's also, as I said above, not the way the law works at least for professionals. For example, as a broker you aren't even allowed to say something like "JUST STEPS FROM THE TRAIN!" in a listing anymore because the word "STEPS" is considered discriminatory against handicapped people who can't walk. I know it sounds absurd, but this is very much how the law works and, as Ordo said, there is a LONG history of winks and nudges in real estate that resulted in generational segregation of poverty along race and other lines which is why we have laws like this to begin with.

Sure, they may not be saying "we want less single people", but a good litmus test as to whether something should be said is to replace the word in question with "white". If you change the sentence "we need more housing for families" to "we need more housing for whites", well, you get the picture...

And that's what they beat into you in RE continuing education these days; the language of anything you say about housing must be absolutely and totally neutral or you will eventually get sued. You do not go into describing the potential buyer, you don't say "close to hip bars and restaurants, perfect for the hip single young professional" or "right next to the park, perfect for famlies". You leave it at "close to the hottest bars and restaurants" or "right by the park". You are drilled to stick to only describing the property itself and the location in the most factual terms possible. Politicians would be wise to do the same. If you want larger units then shut your damned mouth about who you want to rent those units and stick with "we already have a ton of 1 and 2 bedroom units, could you include more larger units?"
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  #45282  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2019, 4:43 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Herman Miller moving their showroom from The Mart to Fulton Market - specifically 1100 Fulton Market. That is a planned development which will rehab the building there and make an addition which is currently a small surface lot. In total, they'll take up 45,000 square ft. Knoll did the same thing very recently. Herman Miller has been at The Mart since 1939
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  #45283  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 1:11 AM
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  #45284  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 1:33 AM
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  #45285  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 1:34 AM
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  #45286  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 2:18 AM
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Apple Store - 401 N Michigan

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^ last year
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  #45287  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 2:27 AM
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  #45288  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 2:28 AM
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  #45289  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 2:43 AM
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My god it's still shocking. Honey I blew up the 6-Flat.
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  #45290  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 3:37 AM
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Mille is the ugliest building built in the city in the 21st century...
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  #45291  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 4:12 AM
rlw777 rlw777 is offline
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Mille is the ugliest building built in the city in the 21st century...
Nah that award goes to amli river north
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  #45292  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 4:13 AM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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^^ It is quite cheap-looking. The cladding is not doing this one any favors, that's for certain.

^ Seconded on AMLI River North. That is a classically bad building.
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  #45293  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 4:23 AM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
But that's the thing, he isn't saying "I want 4 bedroom units", he is saying he wants "family housing". As a licensed broker I could lose my license, be fined up to $25k and possibly even serve jail time if I so much as said that, let alone went on the record with a newspaper.



Yes, but this is where I think it will eventually be litigated. We aren't talking about developer's choice of unit mix, we are talking about government representatives saying things that would be blatantly illegal if they were landlords, developers, or licensed agents. Again, it's not illegal for a developer to say "I want to build more 3 bedroom units" just as it's not illegal for them to say "I don't want to buy in inner city neighborhoods, I am going to invest only in the suburbs". But it would be illegal for them to say "I don't want to rent to unmarried couples" or "I don't want to invest in black neighborhoods so I'm investing only in the suburbs".

You are correct, however, that the law really only applies to landlords, brokers, bankers, etc. Where it becomes a sticky issue is that guess who is the biggest landlord in Chicago? The CHA which is a municipal corporation and very much subject to fair housing laws. The only reason aldermen have gotten away with saying these things so far is that the Mayor appoints the CHA board and the city council doesn't have direct control.

Which brings me to the argument I've posted here before: aldermen might not be able to be prosecuted individually under the fair housing act, BUT they might find themselves in Trumpesque hot water from a policy perspective at some point. What I mean by that is courts do not just consider the letter of the law and whether your proposal technically violates it, they consider context and intent. When Trump's "Muslim Ban" was manifested in the form a "ban that just happens to be all Muslim countries plus North Korea", the courts immediately struck it down because they considered the context and intent. They took the things Trump said and considered the law he proposed in the context of multiple quotes about how bad Muslims are and how he was going to ban them.

My question is how long until someone sues the city over a proposed zoning change (which is an ordinance, i.e. a law just like the muslim ban) because the Alderman sponsoring it has had multiple staffers state that the goal is to "stop too many white people from moving in" or to "provide more housing for families"? Just as Trump can't go around saying he's going to ban Muslims and expect the courts not to eventually attack his policy proposals with his words, alderman shouldn't expect to be able to parade around saying things that blatantly violate fair housing laws and expect not to eventually get the city, CHA, or their buddies who are affordable housing developers sued in the same manner.

Again - as you've stated yourself, the law only applies to those selling, renting real estate. I'm no lawyer, but it doesn't take one to realize that any such lawsuits (if they're based on the real estate non-discrimination laws) would seem to be beyond long shot, if someone not involved in the actual selling or renting of property is the named defendent.
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  #45294  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 4:37 AM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Supply induced demand? You actually think people are moving to Logan Square because they are building TOD there? Lol...

Listen, nobody moves places because big new buildings are being built, big new buildings are built because people want to live there. All this is going to do is massively accelerate price gains. I'm already seeing $800k+ SFH sales in Avondale where there has been categorically no large scale new construction. At this rate I expect to start seeing $1mil+ sales in the next couple of years.

Wait....what now? Are you serious? You authentically do not believe in a supply-induced demand effect?

That's crazy.

Of course it's a real phenomenon. Happens across real estate markets, be they office space, apartments, hotels, retail, logistics...what have you.

In some cases it may only be at the margin. In other cases, it's more significant in terms of overall market impact. There will typically be somewhat greater absorption, all else being equal, with incrementally larger amounts of new supply.

I'm not by any means a supply-sider in terms of my economic worldview, but I don't deny the existence of legitimate supply-side phenomena.

Again, in a lot of cases, this can be more at the margin.

It's interesting though that you gave such a great example, that I can use to illustrate my point. Logan Square - and all the new TOD, smaller-unit apartment developments. The fact that all those new units are coming online has absolutely pushed up unit absorption in recent years in that neighborhood. Unquestionably. This one isn't even at the margin....this is somewhat more substantial. Just think about it for two minutes. These options now exist in considerably larger numbers than they did just 4 or 5 years ago. And, they are attracting a lot more of certain demographic slices of the population, significant proportion of which previously wouldn't have considered - or would have given much less weight in search for housing to the neighborhood. These added choices in the form of this new product induces an absorption level in Logan Square that is somewhat above and beyond what it would be without them - hands down.

In the long-term, supply constraints (whatever form they take - physical, political, etc) certainly help to drive up price appreciation faster than would otherwise be the case - however, in the short-to even the-medium term, new construction itself (through this supply-induced demand effect) can sometimes actually play a role (again varies widely depending on a large number of variables) in driving up rent growth even faster - believe it or not. Again, back to your Logan Square example - this new type of construction is adding Milwaukee corridor buzz and foot traffic, and with it additional retail and restaurant options, thus helping to drive up overall Logan Square housing prices in the near-to-medium term above and beyond what the already strong appreciation would have been absent this new TOD investment. Again, long-term, perhaps a different story. But, this is one example of demand inducement from new supply at work.
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Last edited by SamInTheLoop; Jun 12, 2019 at 4:51 PM.
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  #45295  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 12:50 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
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What’s up with the Apple store redo?

Did the stairs and walkway get too damaged from overuse or did they decide it needs a make over?
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  #45296  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 12:56 PM
ChiPlanner ChiPlanner is offline
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What’s up with the Apple store redo?

Did the stairs and walkway get too damaged from overuse or did they decide it needs a make over?
All the trees they planted immediately died
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  #45297  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 1:17 PM
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^^^ That tends to happen when trees are planted in a few inches of dirt and then covered over with concrete. It's almost as if trees need massive quantities of water or something.
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  #45298  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 2:12 PM
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it also happens when planting is immediately followed by a winter that gets down to -35F. dont underestimate the cold we had, there are a LOT stressed/dead trees all over the city this spring, and if it was a sapling without an established root system (or non-native) it was especially vulnerable. sadly it dosent seem like the city is moving fast enough to replace them either. there was a recent WBEZ article which mentioned we've actually lost 100k trees over the past decade and this most recent winter definitely will be exacerbating that. but yea, it seems like every tree the city puts in near downtown is surrounded by concrete and tends to not survive more than 5 years.
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  #45299  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 3:25 PM
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Nah that award goes to amli river north
My vote still goes to 200 N Dearborn for turkiest architectural turkey.
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  #45300  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2019, 3:44 PM
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My vote still goes to 200 N Dearborn for turkiest architectural turkey.
oh, 200 n dearborn is a monumental turkey, no doubt, but it was built way back in 1989, so it can't be part of a "worst in the 21st" discussion.
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