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  #1  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2009, 3:32 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Halifax Stadium Discussion

There has been quite a bit if discussion in the Atlantic Provinces section of Skyscraperpage ( http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...153061&page=17 ) with regards to Halifax building a new stadium. The other idea is for Moncton to try to get a franchise since they have a stadium.

One idea is to build a partially covered stadium in Halifax alone the lines of the proposed new Blue Bombers stadium in Winnipeg show below:



This stadium has a sunken bowl. The idea of a sunken bowl should greatly reduce the cost since the outer exposed walls for the stadium will be much lower and therefore require fewer materials. With a sunken bowl, I imagine that the lower bowl of stands also serves as a retaining wall for the excavated ground. Instead of a 25 foot sunken bowl they could go even deeper (say 40 - 50 feet). Even the concourse for the second tier of seating could be partly sunken (so the concourse with washrooms and canteens, is say 15-20 feet below ground level and then the playing field could be 25 feet below the concourse). Although the bedrock in the Halifax area would make excavation difficult, there may be natural areas that are already partly excavated, for example an old quarry. Does a quarry still exist in the Dartmouth Crossings area? Another advantage of a sunken bowl is that that the ground is a natural insulator and would make it warmer during the winter and cooler during the summer.

Another idea is to link the new stadium to existing facilities to share parking and washrooms to keep the cost down. Examples are the new Canada Winter Games location or Exhibition Park. Then have the facilities linked to share some of the infrastructure. Since the stadium will probably not make money it will be important to keep the cost down. An advantage of having it at Exhibition Park is that they could organize larger events for the Maritime Fair (for example, look at the Calgary Stampede).

Politicians will likely not show interest unless people in the Halifax area indicate that it is something that they are interested in. I think a new stadium is more important to the Halifax area than a new Metro Centre. Then the Halifax area will have two facilities for concerts. One for very large concerts (the new stadium) and another (the current Metro Centre) for medium size concerts. The CFL seems like a better fit for the Halifax area than the NHL. The NHL would be difficult to support since it would likely take about $50,000,000 annually (in ticket prices and corporate sponsorship) out of the local economy which would likely be taken from other entertainment venues such as restaurants and theater. I think that it is better for Halifax to maintain a very good variety of restaurants than to have the NHL. On the other hand the CFL would probably take less than $10,000,000 annually out of the local economy and still probably provide equal exposure across Canada where I think Halifax needs it the most.

Last edited by fenwick16; Dec 24, 2009 at 12:03 AM. Reason: The thread title might indicate an actual proposal
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  #2  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2009, 4:21 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Good post, you have some creative ideas.
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  #3  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2009, 4:37 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
Good post, you have some creative ideas.
Thank you worldlyhaligonian. I hope to hear some more ideas on the design and location. I am no longer living in the Halifax area although I follow the Halifax section of Skyscraperpage very closely. So I am interested in getting an idea of the level of interest for a new stadium in Halifax.

I was disappointed that Halifax didn't go through with the Commonwealth Games proposal which they likely would have won even with a scaled down proposal (based on reports after the city selection phase was completed). However, on the plus side, Halifax can now design a stadium with a more compact footprint since it will no longer require a track around the field.
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Old Posted Oct 24, 2009, 5:49 PM
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These are great ideas fenwick16. We need someone in government or with the Trade Centre Limited to get the ball rolling on these kind of ideas, because I'm sure it would be popular with most people in HRM other than the naysayers.
The time has come to put the commonwealth games behind us and move on to new and better things. A new stadium designed economically that could be used for multiple purposes would be great.

I like this picture of the bombers stadium design at night.

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Old Posted Oct 24, 2009, 8:57 PM
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I'm not crazy about the aesthetics of the Winnipeg design. And forget about Exhibition Park in terms of any useful facilities. That place needs to be bulldozed.

The sunken bowl idea is interesting. Too bad there is development all around Citadel Hill, otherwise we might have found a use for the thing finally -- a stadium along one side. The Citadel High site would have been perfect.

If Ashburn wanted to sell off their old course, that would be an ideal location and it has some of that slope. It would help in the much-needed widening of Bicentennial Drive as well.

Still, while this is an interesting exercise for development aficionados, I remain convinced such a stadium here would remain empty 95% of the time here and be a tax-dollar-eating white elephant.
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Old Posted Oct 24, 2009, 9:44 PM
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What exactly would we do with this stadium if we had one?
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Old Posted Oct 24, 2009, 11:05 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post

The sunken bowl idea is interesting. Too bad there is development all around Citadel Hill, otherwise we might have found a use for the thing finally -- a stadium along one side. The Citadel High site would have been perfect.
My friends and I always joked that since the citadel is just a big deposit of glacial till, it would be really easy to hollow out and turn into a great natural stadium.

As an added bonus it would shut up all the people who complain about ruining the view from the hill!

On a serious note, I remember years ago, Mayor Ron Wallace seriously -well as serious as he could ever be put forth the idea of hollowing out the citadel to put underground parking in it.
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Old Posted Oct 24, 2009, 11:15 PM
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On a serious note, I remember years ago, Mayor Ron Wallace seriously -well as serious as he could ever be put forth the idea of hollowing out the citadel to put underground parking in it.
I think that is actually a very good idea. You could burrow into the Brunswick St side very unobtrusively and build an underground garage without a whole lot of trouble.
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 12:39 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I'm not crazy about the aesthetics of the Winnipeg design. And forget about Exhibition Park in terms of any useful facilities. That place needs to be bulldozed.

The sunken bowl idea is interesting. Too bad there is development all around Citadel Hill, otherwise we might have found a use for the thing finally -- a stadium along one side. The Citadel High site would have been perfect.

If Ashburn wanted to sell off their old course, that would be an ideal location and it has some of that slope. It would help in the much-needed widening of Bicentennial Drive as well.

Still, while this is an interesting exercise for development aficionados, I remain convinced such a stadium here would remain empty 95% of the time here and be a tax-dollar-eating white elephant.
I was at the Metro Centre shortly after it opened in 1978 for the CIS Basketball Championship between Saint Mary's Huskies and the Acadia Axemen. It was sold out with over 10,000 people (including floor seating). At the time it was a record for a university game in Canada. For me, and I am sure for almost everyone in attendance, it was a great source of civic pride. I feel that would be the same emotion for people attending a CFL game in a new Halifax Stadium. Just imagine having the Grey Cup in Halifax.

The Citadel Hill is actually a great natural venue for concerts. It actually entering my mind that the site of the Citadel High School would have been a great location for a stadium except I wouldn't go along with incorporating the Citadel Hill.

I seriously hope that Halifax will build a stadium in the near future. An economically priced stadium shouldn't be a white elephant any more than the Metro Centre is.
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 3:32 AM
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Why not build a new stadium on the Forum lands? The area is central enough, and is only 15 mins from DT. An idea I've had.
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 4:13 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Why not build a new stadium on the Forum lands? The area is central enough, and is only 15 mins from DT. An idea I've had.
It looks like a stadium would fit into the forum lands but the forum would have to be torn down along with a couple of other buildings. This is based on a stadium being about 500 ft by 600 ft (playing field of 65 yards x 150 yards, or 195 feet x 450 feet http://www.sportsknowhow.com/pops/fo...field-cfl.html ). Although it could be shorter by keeping the end zone seating to a minimum; it would probably be good to have the extra space for temporary seating when required (i.e. for a Grey Cup).

Would there be enough parking in the forum area. I have thought of this area also. It has good highway access.
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 1:04 PM
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We have talked about the Forum site previously. Personally I think it would be better suited for an arena than a stadium given the size. However, the stadium would be a nice fit across the street on the DND lands that are presently very underutilized, mostly as a vehicle maintenance and repair area. That is a huge block of land in the middle of the peninsula.
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  #13  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 1:37 PM
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CFL? Do Canadians (and specifically maritimers) actually watch Football? What else would a stadium be used for? It's an honest question. I have no idea. And assuming it's open air... what happens during the 8 months of winter? LOL.
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 2:31 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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CFL? Do Canadians (and specifically maritimers) actually watch Football? What else would a stadium be used for? It's an honest question. I have no idea. And assuming it's open air... what happens during the 8 months of winter? LOL.
Oh yeah, football (cdn and american) are both highly watched in Canada and the CFL is doing alot better than it was. Halifax is a huge football town. Honestly, we are more of a football town than Saskatoon... they just have a team because it is a western focused league and are a bit bigger. I grew up going to SMU games and high school football and the passion for the game is definitely here.

The stadium could be used for many things... and might be a good venue for concerts as an alternative to the commons to quiet the NIMBYs. Halifax would be able to host world class sports events.
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 2:36 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
We have talked about the Forum site previously. Personally I think it would be better suited for an arena than a stadium given the size. However, the stadium would be a nice fit across the street on the DND lands that are presently very underutilized, mostly as a vehicle maintenance and repair area. That is a huge block of land in the middle of the peninsula.
BEST IDEA EVER!

I never thought of those lands for a stadium, it would be perfect!!

Technically those lands are still on the peninsula and imagine coming in off the bridge and seeing a stadium! Its also good because it is a cluster with the Forum across the street, there is a grocery store right there, etc.

Imagine a mixed residential development plus the stadium!
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 6:33 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
BEST IDEA EVER!

I never thought of those lands for a stadium, it would be perfect!!

Technically those lands are still on the peninsula and imagine coming in off the bridge and seeing a stadium! Its also good because it is a cluster with the Forum across the street, there is a grocery store right there, etc.

Imagine a mixed residential development plus the stadium!
I looked at this location also and it looks perfect. This would be the area bounded by Young Street, Kempt Road and CFB Willow Park. Do you know who owns this property? Willow Park appears to be owned by the military but the block immediately north of Young does not seem to be part of CFB Willow Park (according to Mapquest). There seems to be quite a bit of parking at the forum and surrounding areas. Also I don't think there would be a lot of opposition to this location since it appears to be quite industrial with some military residential (which is likely rented housing).

I think there will be a lot of additional uses for this stadium once it is built. However, since cost is an issue there are several ways to keep the cost down. One way is to have all bench type seating instead of folding seats. Not only is it less expensive to install, it is also easier to maintain since it could be cleaned easily with pressure washers, when necessary. During periods of snow it would be quicker to remove the snow and during the summer it would withstand the heat and UV light better than plastic seats (I am thinking of aluminum benches as opposed to wood benches which were used in the Halifax Forum at one time). An example is the seating in the Saracuse Dome ( http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium..._carrier.shtml ). Just don't have a dome but partial roof if economical. The superstructure for the stands would still be concrete. The aluminum benches can be placed directly on the concrete. One additional big advantage is that you waste less space than with seats. A stadium that would sit 27,000 with folding seats would likely sit 30,000 with benches.
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2009, 10:53 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I stumbled on this stadium being built in Akron, Ohio for $60 million. It looks nicer than half the current CFL stadiums

Rendering:


Construction progress:


25,000 seats and it looks to me like it would fit the bill for a CFL team, Sid the Kid's annual Stanley Cup gatherings and regular Paul McCartney concerts.
This was posted in the "CFL in the Maritimes" thread of the Atlantic Provinces section ( http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...153061&page=11 ). This is the sort of stadium and price that I had in mind for Halifax. The proposed Blue Bombers Stadium is nicer but about twice the price. The new stadium in Akron is called the Summa Field at InfoCision Stadium and there is information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summa_F...Cision_Stadium . It was built for 61.6 million US dollars and has bench type seating with a capacity of 30,000. The end zones are open which would allow for temporary seating for a Grey Cup. It appears as though the first tier of seating is sunken which would reduce the construction cost. The end zones are simply a grassy knoll.

Just imagine this at the site north of the Halifax Forum.
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Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 12:15 AM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
We have talked about the Forum site previously. Personally I think it would be better suited for an arena than a stadium given the size. However, the stadium would be a nice fit across the street on the DND lands that are presently very underutilized, mostly as a vehicle maintenance and repair area. That is a huge block of land in the middle of the peninsula.
Agreed. That DND block and the entire Kempt corridor between Robie, Windsor, Young and Lady Hammond is terribly underutilized. Prime space for a redevelopment strategy IMO.
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Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 12:27 AM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
Halifax is a huge football town. Honestly, we are more of a football town than Saskatoon... they just have a team because it is a western focused league and are a bit bigger.
Agreed Halifax is a huge football town. Big Huskies supporter myself.

Saskatoon is actually not a CFL city, the RR's are in Regina. But they are embraced by the entire province of Saskatchewan.

As for size and support, Halifax is a larger city than both Regina and Saskatoon. 400k vs about 206k for Regina and 233k for Saskatoon. They have a slight edge in provincial pop., (1M) but not if you take NS, NB and PEI together. We have a combined pop. of 1.5M and a far more compact area than Saskatchewan.
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Old Posted Oct 26, 2009, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Does a quarry still exist in the Dartmouth Crossings area?
Anybody know what the plans are for the undeveloped section to the immediate north of Dartmouth Crossing? Is it just me, or would that be perfect for a stadium? Right on a major highway, quick walk/drive to the restaurants of DC... shopping.
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