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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 5:48 PM
JET JET is offline
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[Halifax] Hospitals & Healthcare

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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
I would like to see a few 50 storey buildings, 3 would be good and then we can all look forward to planning to increase the number of families on the peninsula.
The new medical centre in Bayers Lake is a smart decision, perhaps a 50 storey building is planned for close by.
I wonder if the Health Authority consulted with the specialists that will be serving both inpatients and outpatients. What a god awful place to put an outpatient department.
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Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 5:55 PM
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I wonder if the Health Authority consulted with the specialists that will be serving both inpatients and outpatients. What a god awful place to put an outpatient department.
Near major higways, close to a large population. No worry about fog blanketing a helipad.
A relative died at this hospital and it is not in the middle of a city, it is close to major roads and serves a larger area
https://www.southtees.nhs.uk/hospitals/james-cook/
location : https://www.google.ca/maps/place/The...2!4d-1.2164318
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Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 6:20 PM
eastcoastal eastcoastal is offline
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
... The new medical centre in Bayers Lake is a smart decision, perhaps a 50 storey building is planned for close by.
If it's targeted to rural folks coming in for treatment, a pretty good location. Has good connections to the highway system. Not a great location for townies.

It leaves a lot wanting in terms of a "healthy" place to be in between appointments or while waiting. At least, when I am waiting downtown I'm able to get to a park or something other than the in-house Tim Hortons while I spend my day trying to avoid legionella-infested water.
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Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 6:24 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
Near major higways, close to a large population. No worry about fog blanketing a helipad.
A relative died at this hospital and it is not in the middle of a city, it is close to major roads and serves a larger area
https://www.southtees.nhs.uk/hospitals/james-cook/
location : https://www.google.ca/maps/place/The...2!4d-1.2164318
Is fog a concern? Bayer's Lake is at a higher elevation, which I'd think would make it more susceptible to all but very low-lying fog. In any case, this is an outpatient centre, so I doubt a heli-pad is needed.

The current QEII is also near major highways--much nearer than its equivalents in other cities. Compare it to Toronto's hospital district or Montreal's General. Except during rush hour, you can get to the 102 within minutes. I think it's way more more important for the outpatient services to be easily accessible to vulnerable populations via transit and on foot (especially for those without easy vehicle access) than it is to cut off ten minutes of driving time for someone coming from Tantallon, just because that person has a hang-up about driving into the (very easy to drive in) city

As for location, the idea that Bayer's Lake somehow serves more people seems totally wrong. Taking the population on the peninsula and to points east, there are about 250,000 HRM residents who will find this location further away, not closer. if the government wants to build a clinic to more convenient to rural people, fine, but it shouldn't come at the expense of an urban clinic.
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Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eastcoastal View Post
If it's targeted to rural folks coming in for treatment, a pretty good location. Has good connections to the highway system. Not a great location for townies.

It leaves a lot wanting in terms of a "healthy" place to be in between appointments or while waiting. At least, when I am waiting downtown I'm able to get to a park or something other than the in-house Tim Hortons while I spend my day trying to avoid legionella-infested water.
Unless you are immunocompromised there is no need to avoid 'legionella-infested water'.
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Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
Is fog a concern? Bayer's Lake is at a higher elevation, which I'd think would make it more susceptible to all but very low-lying fog. In any case, this is an outpatient centre, so I doubt a heli-pad is needed.

The current QEII is also near major highways--much nearer than its equivalents in other cities. Compare it to Toronto's hospital district or Montreal's General. Except during rush hour, you can get to the 102 within minutes. I think it's way more more important for the outpatient services to be easily accessible to vulnerable populations via transit and on foot (especially for those without easy vehicle access) than it is to cut off ten minutes of driving time for someone coming from Tantallon, just because that person has a hang-up about driving into the (very easy to drive in) city

As for location, the idea that Bayer's Lake somehow serves more people seems totally wrong. Taking the population on the peninsula and to points east, there are about 250,000 HRM residents who will find this location further away, not closer. if the government wants to build a clinic to more convenient to rural people, fine, but it shouldn't come at the expense of an urban clinic.
When it is foggy in Halifax it is clear in Bayers Lake and clear in Bedford. The regional plan envisages significant development close to Bayers Lake.
For us on the east side of the harbour outpatient services are available at Cobequid and Dartmouth General.
The issue is best discussed looking ahead 10-20 years as well as understanding the map in the regional plan which shows how insignificant Halifax peninsula will be in terms of population. Development of the MSVU lands anticipates thousands of housing units.
The Truro hospital is on the edge of town and adjacent to the 102, better placed to serve the surrounding communities.
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  #7  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
When it is foggy in Halifax it is clear in Bayers Lake and clear in Bedford. The regional plan envisages significant development close to Bayers Lake.
For us on the east side of the harbour outpatient services are available at Cobequid and Dartmouth General.
The issue is best discussed looking ahead 10-20 years as well as understanding the map in the regional plan which shows how insignificant Halifax peninsula will be in terms of population. Development of the MSVU lands anticipates thousands of housing units.
The Truro hospital is on the edge of town and adjacent to the 102, better placed to serve the surrounding communities.
Looked at that way, downtown Toronto is also insignificant in terms of population. Moreso, even. But it's still where the primary regional medical services are located. It's nice to serve the surrounding communities, but what about serving THIS community?

If there was any vision at all regarding this stuff, the province would be considering the future transit corridors we're increasingly likely to see along west side of Bedford Basin, leading onto the peninsula and down a future Robie Street ROW of some kind. Sticking a clinic out in the middle of a business park at the edge of the woods ensures it will never be as well served by transit. And since most people who don't or can't drive likely live centrally, we're looking at forcing carless residents to take long, frustrating transit trips, so that suburbanites can shave ten minutes off an easy drive.

If I can be a little less charitable, if someone choose to live in St. Margaret's Bay or Tantallon, they can deal with coming into the city once in a while for services.

Last edited by Drybrain; Apr 20, 2017 at 7:03 PM.
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  #8  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
Looked at that way, downtown Toronto is also insignificant in terms of population. Moreso, even. But it's still where the primary regional medical services are located. It's nice to serve the surrounding communities, but what about serving THIS community?
I don't think the peninsula is losing population, and one major (the biggest?) regional planning goal is to increase the amount of development there in the future to reduce servicing costs and generally make the city work a lot better. It wouldn't be hard to get the peninsula up to 90,000 people or more just by developing underused land. Because of the bridges and population densities the peninsula is quite central.

I think we may need to wait for undercount-corrected 2016 census numbers to accurately compare but the 0009.00 downtown census tract (below the Citadel from around Cornwallis to Sackville) for example went from 1,984 people in 2011 to 2,357 in the 2016 census. This is comparable to the growth happening in the fastest growing suburban parts of Halifax. I am guessing this growth is going to increase from 2016-2021 rather than slow down.

There seem to be a lot of people, mostly older, who have made up their minds that suburbia is "the future". But for the most part it's not really what younger people want or can afford, and it has been tried out and hasn't worked well. It's not 1974.
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  #9  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 8:39 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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This conversation would be better placed in a hospital thread, but what the heck - I'll pile on.

Regarding the future of the VG - wasn't the plan at one point to add on to the Infirmary site at Robie and Bell (formerly occupied by QE High and now by a sort of urban farm)?

So, wouldn't a good plan be to bolster the Infirmary site to cover the peninsula and add the Bayers Lake site to cover the suburbs? It actually doesn't seem like a bad way (economics aside) to get good health care coverage for all...
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  #10  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 11:57 PM
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I don't think the peninsula is losing population, and one major (the biggest?) regional planning goal is to increase the amount of development there in the future to reduce servicing costs and generally make the city work a lot better. It wouldn't be hard to get the peninsula up to 90,000 people or more just by developing underused land. Because of the bridges and population densities the peninsula is quite central.

I think we may need to wait for undercount-corrected 2016 census numbers to accurately compare but the 0009.00 downtown census tract (below the Citadel from around Cornwallis to Sackville) for example went from 1,984 people in 2011 to 2,357 in the 2016 census. This is comparable to the growth happening in the fastest growing suburban parts of Halifax. I am guessing this growth is going to increase from 2016-2021 rather than slow down.
I just added up all the peninsula census tracts, and the growth indicated by the 2016 census was small, but it did grow, by about 300 and some people. I feel as if the peninsula may be overrepresented among areas that were undercounted as well.

More importantly, five years ago, single-family home starts were around 1,000 annually. The last two years they've barely been 400, while peninsula multi-units have spiked, even as the residential vacancy rate has remained low, and in fact is lower on the peninsula than elsewhere. So that indicates accelerating population growth.
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Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 12:10 AM
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I just added up all the peninsula census tracts, and the growth indicated by the 2016 census was small, but it did grow, by about 300 and some people. I feel as if the peninsula may be overrepresented among areas that were undercounted as well.
I'm not sure how the census tract level data works; it if ever will be corrected or if the data from the last census will be corrected.

Development-wise the peninsula is really two different areas. There's the urban core which is open to development and is attracting lots of development and then there are the stable neighbourhoods which don't see much construction and generally slowly decline in population as household sizes shrink. It doesn't make much sense to add them together.

Quote:
More importantly, five years ago, single-family home starts were around 1,000 annually. The last two years they've barely been 400, while peninsula multi-units have spiked, even as the residential vacancy rate has remained low, and in fact is lower on the peninsula than elsewhere. So that indicates accelerating population growth.
Major buildings like the Maple are going to have an impact on the numbers downtown. While there was a lot of construction happening during the time when information was being collected for the 2016 census, I'm not sure many of those buildings were occupied yet. I guess the big bump in population will happen in 2017 and 2018, and will show up in the 2021 census. I would not be surprised to see 3,000 or more people living in that downtown tract by 2021 (that is not much more than the rate of growth from 2011-2016). That tract had 1,738 people in 2001, so that is a substantial change.
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  #12  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 3:44 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
This conversation would be better placed in a hospital thread, but what the heck - I'll pile on.

Regarding the future of the VG - wasn't the plan at one point to add on to the Infirmary site at Robie and Bell (formerly occupied by QE High and now by a sort of urban farm)?

So, wouldn't a good plan be to bolster the Infirmary site to cover the peninsula and add the Bayers Lake site to cover the suburbs? It actually doesn't seem like a bad way (economics aside) to get good health care coverage for all...
That is exactly what the Premier announced. The QE2 stays and will be expanded.
I understand Kentville is now the place for knee surgery. Obviously the province doesn't want to spend a pile of money when rational use of existing facilities is a cheaper and more effective answer to our problem. Peninsula hotels have made a pile of money from selling rooms to patients who have to travel in for early morning minor procedures and expecting older people to just accept the risk and burden of travelling to Halifax is mean spirited. Day surgery/examination starts at 8 a.m. The couple killed on the 103 were travelling in for the dialysis of the retired man - 3 trips a week.
The only way to properly understand the issue is to view Google earth and see where the population is now and where it will be over the next 2 decades. If you live in Clayton Park you will arrive at Bayers Lake well before the VG or the QE2. And read the Regional Plan - Bedford, Bedford west and MSVU are the long term drivers of population growth.
I had a colonoscopy in January - at Cobequid. Previous procedures were at the VG. I get to Cobequid just as quick as the VG and without crossing the bridge.
They told me they would see me in 5 years. I needed a heart monitor, so off to the VG and try to find parking and then back to the VG next day. I then had an ultrasound at Dartmouth General - no trip over the bridge. Many procedures/examinations that once were the sole domain of the VG and QE2 are now carried out elsewhere at locations closer to the population. Bayers Lake is just the continuation of sensible policies that should have been implemented long ago. The good news is that the days of blood and urine samples being collected solely at the VG are well behind us, amazing how continuous deficits and an ageing population can force us to improve and rationalise the delivery of healthcare.

Last edited by Colin May; Apr 21, 2017 at 4:02 AM.
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  #13  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 10:22 AM
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I agree! What is a city with out the main hospital!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
Is fog a concern? Bayer's Lake is at a higher elevation, which I'd think would make it more susceptible to all but very low-lying fog. In any case, this is an outpatient centre, so I doubt a heli-pad is needed.

The current QEII is also near major highways--much nearer than its equivalents in other cities. Compare it to Toronto's hospital district or Montreal's General. Except during rush hour, you can get to the 102 within minutes. I think it's way more more important for the outpatient services to be easily accessible to vulnerable populations via transit and on foot (especially for those without easy vehicle access) than it is to cut off ten minutes of driving time for someone coming from Tantallon, just because that person has a hang-up about driving into the (very easy to drive in) city

As for location, the idea that Bayer's Lake somehow serves more people seems totally wrong. Taking the population on the peninsula and to points east, there are about 250,000 HRM residents who will find this location further away, not closer. if the government wants to build a clinic to more convenient to rural people, fine, but it shouldn't come at the expense of an urban clinic.

I would love the city to explain more of who this is more convenient for not is who live and work in the north/south/west end or down town!
I remember when the dmv moved to the hell hole (bayers lake) and everyone complained and still some time complain!

Also your removing a big reason why older folks move towards the down town to be easy to hospital and their appointments.
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Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
That is exactly what the Premier announced. The QE2 stays and will be expanded.
I understand Kentville is now the place for knee surgery. Obviously the province doesn't want to spend a pile of money when rational use of existing facilities is a cheaper and more effective answer to our problem. Peninsula hotels have made a pile of money from selling rooms to patients who have to travel in for early morning minor procedures and expecting older people to just accept the risk and burden of travelling to Halifax is mean spirited. Day surgery/examination starts at 8 a.m. The couple killed on the 103 were travelling in for the dialysis of the retired man - 3 trips a week.
The only way to properly understand the issue is to view Google earth and see where the population is now and where it will be over the next 2 decades. If you live in Clayton Park you will arrive at Bayers Lake well before the VG or the QE2. And read the Regional Plan - Bedford, Bedford west and MSVU are the long term drivers of population growth.
I had a colonoscopy in January - at Cobequid. Previous procedures were at the VG. I get to Cobequid just as quick as the VG and without crossing the bridge.
They told me they would see me in 5 years. I needed a heart monitor, so off to the VG and try to find parking and then back to the VG next day. I then had an ultrasound at Dartmouth General - no trip over the bridge. Many procedures/examinations that once were the sole domain of the VG and QE2 are now carried out elsewhere at locations closer to the population. Bayers Lake is just the continuation of sensible policies that should have been implemented long ago. The good news is that the days of blood and urine samples being collected solely at the VG are well behind us, amazing how continuous deficits and an ageing population can force us to improve and rationalise the delivery of healthcare.
For the sake of clarity, the QE2 is made up of 10 buildings located on two sites; the VG site, and the Halifax Infirmary site
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Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 1:33 PM
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Unless you are immunocompromised there is no need to avoid 'legionella-infested water'.
... but it's good for dramatic effect.

Also, it may be a bit much to ask that those coming to a hospital please avoid being immunocompromised.
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Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 4:52 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by stevencourchene View Post
I would love the city to explain more of who this is more convenient for not is who live and work in the north/south/west end or down town!
I remember when the dmv moved to the hell hole (bayers lake) and everyone complained and still some time complain!

Also your removing a big reason why older folks move towards the down town to be easy to hospital and their appointments.
Look at a map would be a good start.
Then take a compass and draw 5km circles around the VG, the QE/Veterans complex and the Bayers Lake site. Do the same for Cobequid and Dartmouth General.
Then read the Regional Plan and the forecasts for residential growth.
For those off peninsula and to the west and north the new site makes sense, and there area lot more older people living off peninsula than on peninsula.
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Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 5:40 PM
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... but it's good for dramatic effect.

Also, it may be a bit much to ask that those coming to a hospital please avoid being immunocompromised.
Not necessary to ask patients to avoid becoming immunocompromised,
just necessary to ask patients who are immunocompromised to avoid the water.
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Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 6:17 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Not necessary to ask patients to avoid becoming immunocompromised,
just necessary to ask patients who are immunocompromised to avoid the water.
...or, they could fix the problem.

The thing about being immunocompromised is that you may not know it until it's too late. Heck, even something simple such as taking medication for arthritis can lead to a compromised immune system.
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Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 7:04 PM
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...or, they could fix the problem.

The thing about being immunocompromised is that you may not know it until it's too late. Heck, even something simple such as taking medication for arthritis can lead to a compromised immune system.
The water problem at the VG, they tried to fix it and failed. It will only cease to be a problem at the VG when the VG is gone.
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Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 7:09 PM
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The water problem at the VG, they tried to fix it and failed. It will only cease to be a problem at the VG when the VG is gone.
The last time I was in the Dickson Center, a structure built in the mid-1980s, the washrooms there had similar signs advising the water was not fit to drink.

I remain baffled by how safe drinking water cannot be provided in a hospital. Not to mention how they run food service in such a place.
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