Mobile Development Thread

[DruidCity]

Wow, sorry to stir things up so much, but
whatever happened to the proposal for bay-area ferry transit, that would
have had stops everywhere from downtown Mobile to the Grand Hotel in Point Clear to Bellingrath Gardens, etc ?

[10101000]

Wednesday, May 14, 2008Staff Report
Public comment on the proposed Alabama Motorsports Park, A Dale Earnhardt Jr. Speedway, off Interstate 65 in Prichard will be heard June 19 at 7 p.m. at the Saraland Civic Center, 716 Mae St., according to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

An informal open house will be held from 6-7 p.m. to allow the public to view the new site plans for the

$624 million motorsports and entertainment complex on 2,400 acres
The developers, Gulf Coast Entertainment, submitted a revised design in December after the corps found that the original site plan on the banks of Chickasabogue Creek would have altered more than three miles of stream and affected 177 acres of wetlands.

"The only public comments we had were on the original proposal, and this gives the public an opportunity to see and comment on the revised plan," said Pat Robbins, a corps spokesman in Mobile. The feedback on the original proposal included concerns about noise, traffic and wetlands impact, he said.

The new plan reduced the number of racing facilities from six to three, according to Mike Dow, former Mobile mayor and the managing member of Gulf Coast Entertainment. The complex will include a speedway-caliber oval track, a road course and a karting track accommodating stock car, truck, open wheel, sprint and motorcycle racing, investors said.

Reconfiguring the number and layout of tracks reduced the wetlands impact to about 87 acres, according to John Baker of Thompson Engineering.

The complex will also in clude a 5,000-space motor home or RV park, and retail and entertainment facilities.

The corps spokesman could not give a timetable for permit approval.

"It depends on the public and if they raise issues that need to be addressed," Robbins said.

The investors hope to break ground in June and have the racetracks built in time for the 2010 racing season, according to Dow.

The public can submit comments on the speedway proposal via e-mail to damon.m.young@sam.usace.army.mil or call 251-690-2658.

[elb401]

I dont think Baldwin county will ever attract a huge industrial base. The land is too expensive and the residents there will probably fight it. If it happens it will happen in the Northern part of the county near I-65. I see more of a high tech area near the eastern shore or the southern part. but Baldwin county is not doing much to recruiting any type of major job provider right now and it doesn't seem like job recriutment is its priority.

And about sprawl.....it will happen. that is how american cities are set up. a City is more of a region now instead of being defined by city borders. The thing would be to help lessen the sprawl, build more dense as we go out. Help slow it down. This creates a better situation for mass transit once the population hits some where near a million (Way off in the future, if ever) and when gas prices are $10 a gallon.

But anyways......

[elb401]

Hey DruidCity, the ferry thing needs a lot more funding and studies. But the Maritime Museum will be built to accommodate ferries one day downtown. I think the stops were fowl river (Bellingrath Gardens and now the town of salt aire), Dauphin Island, Fairhope, and Gulf shores. Pensacola and Biloxi have both expressed interest in it a few years ago when there was a lot of talk about it.

[The 251]

Originally Posted by Del

The 251: are you asking for evidence that Baldwin serves as a bedroom community for Mobile? This spreadsheet at the Chamber site has some numbers from the 2000 census that I think back up that claim pretty well. And of course there's been a lot of growth since then. Maybe, as gas prices continue to rise, Muskavon's prediction will be realized and Baldwin will develop its own jobs.

the point i was trying to make has nothing to do with where people live, work or anything else of that matter. i was asking him for evidence to support his claim that Baldwin County does nothing to support Mobile.

[NitekKetin]

Originally Posted by elb401

I dont think Baldwin county will ever attract a huge industrial base. The land is too expensive and the residents there will probably fight it. If it happens it will happen in the Northern part of the county near I-65. I see more of a high tech area near the eastern shore or the southern part.

I thought there were plans for a large scale technology-oriented research/office park near Eastern Shore Centre. It was announced last year, I think, but nothing seems to have arisen out of it.

[The 251]

I apologize for getting this thread off topic so much recently.
Hopefully we can put those issues to bed soon and move on to more important things.

Anyway, here are a couple of articles I found regarding smart growth projects in our region. You may have been exposed to them already, but just in case….

The Highlands of Spanish Fort (expected to house 35-65,000 new residents over the next 40 years)


This site has a lot of interesting facts about the eastern shore that you may not have know about. The City of Daphne was ranked 96th in the 'Top 100 Best Places to Live' by CNN/Money website. Also, the Daphne-Fairhope micropolitian area, which includes all of Baldwin County, was recently ranked the 11th strongest micropolitian economy in the United States.


Here is a website that shows general information about the Commerce and Technology Center. I believe it is under construction along with the rest of Eastern Shore Town Center.

[Muskavon]

I apologize if I came off as combative in my Baldwin post yesterday. Never stay up late really bored and decide to go crazy writing stuff.

Anyway, here is the latest Tanker thing from the Press-Register:

http://www.al.com/news/press-registe...530.xml&coll=3

I think it only matters should the GAO decide a new competition should be started after this "review" stuff. That would be bad enough in and of itself so hopefully it'll never matter.

[Port_of_Bama]

It feels good to be back home I am enjoying this place.

I checked out the Alabama Motor sports park new site plans and they are pretty good.

I want Mobile to have a 70,000 seat arena ,lol and we are getting a 75,000 and l is able to expand to 125,000 seats in this motor sports park.

A shopping center that will have big box retail will be included aslo. There will be a separate area with boutique shops so i`m assuming that the planed shopping area with big box retail should be nice and not cookie cutter.



The motor sports park also has a reserved area for a potential theme/water park I am hoping that it will be a mixed them and water park as well .

When I was in Chicago I had a good time at the ESPN Center downtown and there is one proposed for the motor sports park !!

I wish it was downtown, lol like the one in Chicago and New York, but we still have a good ways to go before we even come close to having something like that down town. Atleast we will be the first in the state to have an ESPN Center well atleast I hope.

[Port_of_Bama]

Originally Posted by Muskavon

I apologize if I came off as combative in my Baldwin post yesterday. Never stay up late really bored and decide to go crazy writing stuff.

Anyway, here is the latest Tanker thing from the Press-Register:

http://www.al.com/news/press-registe...530.xml&coll=3

I think it only matters should the GAO decide a new competition should be started after this "review" stuff. That would be bad enough in and of itself so hopefully it'll never matter.

If that law comes through it may effect the next competition but not this one .It says the President has the power to cancel if He/She feels that it will put security at risk. If the law was passed before this competiton the president would have canceled it if He/She felt that the nations security was at risk. The air force would have never choosen NG in the first place if that was a factor. They are only building sophisticated refueling tankers not fighter jets but you know that is.

[SouthSky]

Originally Posted by Muskavon

I apologize if I came off as combative in my Baldwin post yesterday. Never stay up late really bored and decide to go crazy writing stuff.

Anyway, here is the latest Tanker thing from the Press-Register:

http://www.al.com/news/press-registe...530.xml&coll=3

I think it only matters should the GAO decide a new competition should be started after this "review" stuff. That would be bad enough in and of itself so hopefully it'll never matter.

Yeah... this ruling will most likely not affect the contract, but if by any chance Boeing wins its appeal on all subjects (rendering the contract void) and the contract process begins again, it will change the field.

[pkp]

Eh - probably went a little overboard with the Baldwin comments. Sorry. I get a little too passionate about the urban lifestyle sometimes, which is why I got on this site to begin with a few years ago. As a far as the ferry goes, I am going to look into it. When it first came up a few years ago, I did a research paper (I was finishing up with night classes at Spring Hill at the time) on transportation, a component of which was the proposed ferry service. The complaint was that the ferry was predicted to lose $1,000,000 annually, which would have to be subsidized. People were really in an uproar over that. However, given the fact that the funding of roads is one of the federal government's largest expenses, I can't see the difference. The PR did a deal on that one, because your average citizen that wants everything but doesn't want to pay taxes, can't comprehend that taxes pay for the roads, and there is nothing wrong with the same dollars subsidizing some mass transit along with fares that are paid. I will say, the beach communities in Baldwin did step up with the ferry thing. They agreed to pay for docking facilities - I am sure it's because they thought it would help tourism, but still a good thing. The downfall with the ferries, is that other than the immediate downtown area where you can walk, the infastructure is seriously lacking to move the people around to and from the ferries, but its a start. I actually need to dig that paper up if I still have it- it was pretty damn good. It generally was a bashing of the interstate system and post WWII development as a whole, but I think it actually opened the eyes of the some of the older folks in my class that were brought up thinking their lives needed to revolve around a automobile. I discussed the health issues (America is the most medicated country in the world with over 1/2 of adults on drugs for chronic illness) caused by the seditary lifestyle associated with autocentric living, as well as the environmental effects, racial and economic issues, and the energy issues we are facing today. Any way, I digress...

[Muskavon]

Having re-read the article about the race park, there seems to be some conflicts of what is possible unless I don't understand things (entirely likely). The public comment meeting will be June 19th. The Army Corp intends to consider issues raised (if any) and then make a timetable for approval.

Then there is Mike Dow who still hopes/maybe expects to see the start construction in June.

Is the development team just being as optomistic as ever? Would no public concern voiced mean the Corps would approve immediately? Since this seems to be the same scaled down plan already shown to a group on May 1st (as far as I know) why is this next important step so far into June? Shouldn't they be trying to get this meeting together in the next two weeks? Or is there a legal time of notice for such a hearing that must be adhered to? Yeah, so many questions I'd love to hear any expert here address/explain.

[DruidCity]

The complaint was that the ferry was predicted to lose $1,000,000 annually, which would have to be subsidized.

Thanks for the additional information.
From this outside perspective, I see Saraland as the next potential West Mobile/Eastern Shore "new sprawl zone," especially with Thyssen-Krupp and the race track fueling activity north of Mobile . Most Mobilians I know look at I-10 as their main link to rest of the world, but for most Alabamians, I-65 is our entry into the metro area. At this point, there's not much to draw our wallets until we hit Mobile proper, but that could change quickly.

Hopefully, area leaders will plan ahead so that the growth is much better managed than in those areas...

[elb401]

I can see that happening but not to the extent of west Mobile and the Eastern Shore. To bad for Saraland. It can only capture so much of the growth. It is almost land locked by other towns. The only area left to annex out into the county is trying to incorporate into Turnerville. They don't want to be in Saraland.

[SouthSky]

So that article about Ladd-Peebles getting a face lift might have a stimulus:

The ACC is looking at the GMAC as a new option for placing a bowl team starting in 2009.

http://www.al.com/sports/press-regis...810.xml&coll=3

[Muskavon]

^ Hey that would be nice. Even the lowest rated ACC team would be a far more noticable nameplate to potential attendees than the MAC can offer. I don't mean to disparage the small time teams trying hard in a world of giants and a deck stacked against them....but this about looking out for what is best for Mobile. Now, figure out how to get the worst SEC team and you sell the place out every year regardless the opponent.

[nimsjus]

A couple of cool things in the PR today...
The first one is downtown. T Leavell and Associates are moving from the former LeClede Hotel Building(whch they renovated) on Goverment next to the tunnel entrance. There new home is a really crappy non-descript, warehouse looking building at 210 St Joseph St. The cool part of this is they are going to turn it into a pretty nice looking building. I am sure someone will be quick to move into the historic, rennovated Leclede building as well so I doubt that will stay empty for long. The pictures can be seen here: http://www.al.com/press-register/pageone/sunday1j.pdf
The other article is about the townhome develpoment at Dauphin and Sage. There really isn't a lot of info in the article. That is one of the largest undeveloped properties in downtown/midtown. I am glad it is being put to use. Hopefully an infusion of new residents will continue to fuel the midtown renewal being seen in the the historic districts, Ashland Place, SpringHill, etc.

[Verve]

Originally Posted by Muskavon

Alright Mobile vs. Baldwin...calm down. It is what it is. People did what they did and do what they do. These are good times for the area. Maybe the combination of forces (gas, economic development, traffic, etc.) will force the "urban flight" people into some idealistic urban Mobile City mecca by market forces over time. But probably not. Let's still celebrate what is happening around here.

As far as economic development goes, don't be surprised when the steel plant sprawls a new wall of continuous development to the north end of Mobile & Baldwin Counties. Businesses, apartments, homes, strip centers, etc., etc. By the time it is done you'll have a hard time calling anyone in Daphne anymore a gas guzzling suburban creep than you will the thousands commuting from the north ends of Mobile County. In fact, the East Shore people will probably travel much less distance on average if they need to work in Mobile.

Then, assuming the tanker assembly gets full approval...a number of companies will come up in Baldwin and even Escambia, FL (and in Miss.) to serve that enterprise. Some are already there and would expand. More interlocking of the counties.

It's all tied together. And it is gonna be ever more with every development. I don't think it is realistic to think you'll stop the sprawl in this area. Urban living in core areas may continue to come back into vogue (great), but just take a look at where companies are choosing their spots to grow. Airbus and Brookley is an awesome exception as the land and perfect spot is available. But the steel plant isn't going to build downtown and hire 5,000 city dwellers. Had the VW plant chosen Atmore...uh...hello....where would/should people live to work there? More sprawl. The links between Mobile/Atmore/Pensacola woulda exploded. The workers wouldn't have congregated in the city of Mobile or P'cola. Considering the gas argument...good for them.

So you've got your East Shore workforce that runs thru the tunnel every morning. Then you've got your Baldwin County bedroom communities in the middle. Your beach scene in the south. You've also got your Pensacola commuter runaways in Lillian, Seminole, Orange Beach, etc. But lost in that is a few upstart companies that produce stuff in Baldwin County. And a pile of potential land for more. I'd suspect you'll see a lot of economic development in Baldwin County over the next decade that catches up with the city "flight". It has the land, the skilled workers from either side of it, and Alabama business friendliness. In 2020, many people in Mobile/Pensacola may wonder why they spend a gallon of gas every day driving to work in Baldwin County.

Muskavon,

Very good points. As some others have stated on the board, eventually the whole Gulf Coast from NO to Panama City will be one continuous megalopolis. It will then be hard to tell what city benefits from what development, etc.

Already, (or at least before gas prices limited my travel), I would visit Biloxi, Pensacola, Destin, New Orleans, and other places to take advantages of their offerings and things I couldn't find here in Mobile. If you think about some of the metros like Atlanta, Houston, etc., if you live on one side of town and drive to something on the other side, you would have covered the same amount of ground you would going from Mobile to P'cola or Mobile to Biloxi. And with far less congestion.

[Muskavon]

Thanks for seeing my point Verve.

On to this...



http://www.al.com/news/press-registe...870.xml&coll=3