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  #41  
Old Posted May 23, 2008, 3:33 AM
sprtsluvr8 sprtsluvr8 is offline
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Originally Posted by smartymidtown View Post
From you post earlier, I have to correct you. Church members usually do not pay yearly dues; they give offerings with a loving heart or a have a minister that knows how to shake money out of people. LOL

To answer some of your questions:
A. I wish it were as simple as telling the membership to park a few blocks away at a pay lot or trying to renegotiate parking with other facilities. Looking at some of the downtown churches, were it not for their endowments they would not be in existence because of a drop in membership. I have a feeling this is due to parking issues. I know St. Mark has been successful negotiating parking at the lot on Peachtree and 6th. But unfortunately that lot many not be available in the near future (this is what we have been told). The fear is that if we do not do something now, we will always be dependent on others to meet our parking needs.

B. We would like the property to be adjacent to the church because it is not our intent to leave it as a parking lot (this is a temporary solution). The new parking will in no way fulfill our parking needs. We are raising money to build a structure that can better meet our needs in parking and provide more learning space.

C. There is no requirement for dedicated parking at a funeral or any other event. However, most churches are a 7 day a week organization and have many events going on. I know at St. Mark there are support group meetings, volunteer events, etc. And most people coming to these events have to travel by car to reach our location. This is Atlanta not the Northeast. Atlanta will never look like those cities because we are too spread out and people need cars. If we have the resources to invest in our future and expand our parking, I do not see the problem with demolishing 3 building on the verge of being condemned.

Saint Mark doesn't seem to be hurting for members (over 1,700?) or attendance. The last part of your statement is a big part of the problem...Atlanta had better look like those cities in the future because cars and more parking are not the future. If we have resources to invest in our future they should go to finding alternate energy sources and public transit, AND preservation of our history...not parking lots.
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  #42  
Old Posted May 23, 2008, 6:31 PM
Atlarchie Atlarchie is offline
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Crum & Forster

I just thought I would point out that the floor to floor heights of the Crum Forster building are as follows: 15'-10" +/- from entry to second level, 12'-6" 2nd , and 12'4" 3rd, there is also an attic level with storage. The basement level I am not sure of, but would guess in the 15'0" range. Also there is an elevator, two fire stairs, reportedly 35,000 square feet....Unfortunately someone has stolen the copper flashing at the valleys and dormers thus allowing water in. This might not be such a big deal since the building is concrete frame (ext. walls of masonry) The formwork used in construction was highly refined. and 40 years ahead of its time. Today it would be classified as a high grade of finish. Asbestos abattment was done in the 1970's. I think the building is perfect for renovation...The Biltmore was far worse

Oh and on the old Erlanger Theatre, one of my friends has a chandelier from the lobby. It's now hanging in his dining room. It also once hung in the round house on Mt. Paron that was just restored. His firm did the renovation of the theatre.
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  #43  
Old Posted May 23, 2008, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by joey View Post
And for a church parking lot, no less.
Holy cow! I don't recall that theater at all, and I've never seen a color photo of the 615 building. Cool!

That said, since the demolition of the 615 re-opened my condo's view of downtown, and since the back-side of the 615 was one of the ugliest expanses of gray cinderblock, I don't miss it at all.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 8:40 PM
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While Sunday morning is the peak period for churches' parking demands, it is not the only time that close-by parking is needed. Funerals are held at various times throughout the work week, and require dedicated parking that is readily accessible to the church. I believe the possible loss of St. Mark UMC would be a far greater loss to Midtown than any three adjacent homes. Once these old churches move out of Midtown, they will never be able to afford the increased land and building costs required to move back in. At a time when pedestrian accessibility is touted as the key to urban living, I believe it would be terribly shortsighted to force out a valuable neighborhood institution that is already within walking range.
That is an obvious gross exageration that the Church will leave if it doesnt get its way. Having the parking is just a convenience for parishoners that problably dont even live in Midtown. If it does actually have to move away.....then better, three historical homes protected and one less irritating church in Midtown. If there are too many Churches in Midtown, then the markets should dictate that some Churches need to move away. If the Churches need so much parking, then obviously the parishioners dont live nearby and those churches just dont fit in the plan for an urban environment.

There are so many parking lots in Midtown right now, there is absolutely no need for any additional ones! The problems is that people dont want to pay $5 to $10 and walk two or three blocks.

These churches that leech the lonely, desparate, delusional and self-righteous dont need more special privileges!

I do believe in historical preservation; however, I am not that much of a historical preservationist for Atlanta, as I see little worth saving and like the idea that Atlanta should be a new progressive city where every day is an opening day, rather than looking at a poor and shameful past. I do not however, think it should be appropriate to give zoning or code variances to tear down "historical" or any building in the Midtown area to build a parking lot that does not fit into the concepts and intents of the Midtown Blueprint.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2008, 12:26 AM
testarossa50 testarossa50 is offline
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Originally Posted by AtlMidtowner View Post
That is an obvious gross exageration that the Church will leave if it doesnt get its way. Having the parking is just a convenience for parishoners that problably dont even live in Midtown. If it does actually have to move away.....then better, three historical homes protected and one less irritating church in Midtown.

...

I do not however, think it should be appropriate to give zoning or code variances to tear down "historical" or any building in the Midtown area to build a parking lot that does not fit into the concepts and intents of the Midtown Blueprint.
Haha, in Europe old churches often serve as bars/nightclubs. Now THAT would fit into the Midtown Blueprint.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2008, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by testarossa50 View Post
Haha, in Europe old churches often serve as bars/nightclubs. Now THAT would fit into the Midtown Blueprint.
I agree!!!

The Abbey Restaurant was an Atlanta institution, or an Atlanta restaruant inside a church for 20 years, at the corner of Ponce and Piedmont! When the restaurant went out, I actually looked at the feasibility of converting the Church into condos; but a Presbytarian Church moved in instead!

Down the street on Ponce toward Highland Ave., another Church had been successfully converted to condos, but the Church on Ponce & Piedmont could have really had some neat condos because of the age and design of the Church. Picture a hallway and wall down the center of the Church from floor to ceiling from the front to back, then subdivided with each condo having a second floor loft bedroom facing the church Windows.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 1:37 AM
ReallyTired ReallyTired is offline
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Anybody here in preserving it - buy it. Or would that mean you'd actually have to assume risk instead of bitching about it on a internet message board?
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 2:16 AM
BabydaddyATL BabydaddyATL is offline
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Originally Posted by ReallyTired View Post
Anybody here in preserving it - buy it. Or would that mean you'd actually have to assume risk instead of bitching about it on a internet message board?
Last time I checked GA Tech gets money from the state of GA. I pay GA taxes...ya see were I am going with this right?
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2008, 1:31 AM
ReallyTired ReallyTired is offline
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Originally Posted by BabydaddyATL View Post
Last time I checked GA Tech gets money from the state of GA. I pay GA taxes...ya see were I am going with this right?
Yes I do. So, then the next question is would a vocal minority use taxpayer dollars to preserve a building that a silent majority couldn't care less about (of course the bulk of the money for such coming from the silent majority)? But of course it's always easier to use public monies for a hobby and having somebody else assume any risk than actually doing it yourself.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2008, 1:40 AM
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Yeah, but the aesthetics of keeping such quality structures would add value for the entire community in the continued support and presence of the minority who value an historical architectural record.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2008, 12:38 PM
CB SONO CB SONO is offline
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Originally Posted by ReallyTired View Post
Anybody here in preserving it - buy it. Or would that mean you'd actually have to assume risk instead of bitching about it on a internet message board?
I'm pretty sure that GA Tech is not interested in selling this property. Although you are correct, I have not investigated that option.

As for "bitching about it on an internet message board." I might not have heard about this demolition as timely as I did without this forum. As a result, I might have missed my opportunity to write a letter and sign the petition. So I am grateful for the forum.

As far as this being a "historical" building, I think that any old building in Atlanta that has escaped the wrecking ball up to this point deserves complete scrutiny before demolition. This is especially true in that area of Midtown. I am not saying that every building must be saved, just that a smart decision needs to be made before we lose any more of the historical character of our city.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2008, 1:46 PM
ATLaffinity ATLaffinity is offline
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Originally Posted by ReallyTired View Post
Anybody here in preserving it - buy it. Or would that mean you'd actually have to assume risk instead of bitching about it on a internet message board?
that's like saying i should have personally bought The Fox to save it from demolition.

the "majority" is silent on pretty much everything including asbestos in buildings and lead in toys. that "silence" is not passive approval.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2008, 8:02 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is online now
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Community urges Tech to save building

By Maria Saporta | Thursday, June 26, 2008, 09:20 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Make no mistake. Community leaders do not want the Georgia Tech Foundation to demolish the historic Crum & Forster building at 771 Spring St.

At the Development Review Committee meeting Thursday evening in Midtown, every single person who spoke voiced opposition to the foundation’s plan to tear down the 1926 building and replace it with a vacant lot.

“This is a first-rate building,” said Mark McDonald, the new president of the Georgia Trust for Historic Preservation. “It is important to the history of Atlanta, and it’s important to the history of Georgia Tech. Every solution for the historic preservation of this building should be sought.”

In all, 22 people spoke out against the Georgia Tech Foundation’s plans to seek a demolition permit for the building. Some were Georgia Tech students. Some were Georgia Tech alums. Others were Georgia Tech faculty members. And most were concerned Atlanta leaders who saw this fight as a crossroads for the city’s future.

A Georgia Tech alum said he was not proud of the way his alma-mater was responding to community concerns. “There’s a way to save this building,” he said.”There are few moments in the life of cities that determine their future.” He went on to compare this fight to the effort to save the Fox more than three decades ago.

Other alums said they would no longer give money to support the foundation until it dropped its plans to demolish the Crum & Forster building.

Myles Smith, a community leader who is retired from Georgia Power, took it a step further. He called the three foundation representatives at the meeting “hired guns.” He urged the community to put pressure on members of the Georgia Tech Foundation board, many of whom are well-recognized civic leaders.

“We need to tell those board members that they’re doing the wrong thing,” Smith said. “We need to find those people and start pestering them.”

Penelope Cheroff, an Ansley Park resident who chairs the Neighborhood Planning Unit - E, agreed.

“We can not stop this as much as we’d like to,” Cheroff said. “The foundation has decided to destroy this building.” She then urged people to find out who is on the foundation’s board and urge the trustees to save the building.

The foundation’s web site is www.gtf.gatech.edu, and there’s a link to its board of trustees.

About 1,700 people already have signed an online petition urging the foundation to save the building.

Although Georgia Tech is steadfast in its desire to get a permit to tear down the classically-designed structure, foundation representative Carl Westmoreland said the foundation is “committed to looking at different alternatives for the building.”

The last person who spoke at the Development Review Committee meeting was Ellen Dunham Jones, director of Georgia Tech’s architecture program.

“I certainly would like to offer our help,” she said, explaining that the foundation has been supportive of the architecture program’s in the past. “We would like to help the foundation back by helping find out what alternatives there really are.”

At that point, the members of the Development Review Committee took a vote to oppose the Georgia Tech Foundation’s application for a demolition permit. The vote was unanimous with one exception — a Georgia Tech employee who abstained because he felt it would be a conflict of interest for him to vote.

Now that recommendation will go the city of Atlanta’s Bureau of Planning, which would either approve or deny Georgia Tech’s demolition permit.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2008, 3:28 AM
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gttx gttx is offline
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If any of you are really interested in saving this building, you have to be vocal about it to people that matter. Send messages to the Foundation board of trustees (available on their website), to the mayor, to City Council, and to anyone else you can think of. They need to hear it if we have any hope of saving this building!
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2008, 3:29 AM
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Also, here is an article from this week's Technique (Georgia Tech's student newspaper) about the building. A SSP contributor may even be featured in it

http://www.nique.net/nique/article/442
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  #56  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 7:46 PM
smArTaLlone smArTaLlone is online now
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City gives Crum & Forster building a lifeline

By Maria Saporta | Monday, July 14, 2008, 11:08 AM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The Georgia Tech Foundation’s plans to demolish the historic Crum & Forster building in Midtown Atlanta took a big hit.

The city of Atlanta’s Bureau of Buildings has denied the foundation’s application to demolish the 1927 structure at 771 Spring St.

More importantly, the city also sent the foundation a letter expressing its intent to nominate the Crum & Forster building for landmark status. That designation would provide the building greater protection from being demolished

Community leaders and historic preservationist orchestrated a widespread campaign to save the building, including an online petition with about 2,000 names and comments.

In the past few weeks, critics of the foundation’s plans also started appealing to individual members of the foundation’s board as well as lobbying the city to take actions to save the building.

The campaign to save the building seemed to be having some influence with the foundation, which announced last week that it had hired an architectural firm with strong preservation credentials to re-evaluate the foundation’s plans.

The foundation still could file an appeal to the courts to fight the city’s decision to deny the demolition permit and to designate the building as a landmark.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 7:59 PM
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Here's the thing: the City almost certainly just overstepped its legal bounds in denying the permit, when it most likely had no discretion to do so. But, it just seems to me that Tech would be out of its mind to engage in a two-year-long battle with the city over its denial of a demolition permit.

The PR hit and litigation cost would be so great, it hardly seems worth it.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2008, 8:09 PM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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Originally Posted by gttx View Post
Also, here is an article from this week's Technique (Georgia Tech's student newspaper) about the building. A SSP contributor may even be featured in it

http://www.nique.net/nique/article/442
Nice!
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