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  #81  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2012, 2:19 AM
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I drink in public occasionally and I've never had trouble here in Calgary. As long as you're not bothering anyone the cops tend to leave you alone.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2012, 3:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim View Post
I love how this thread just starts in the middle of a heated argument.
it never had a chance.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2012, 1:18 PM
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it never had a chance.
This thread is the chance. It was an argument that existed in the Canadian Proposals thread (for gawd knows what reason) and threatened that thread.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:45 AM
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[QUOTE=Dado;5722789]
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What I really dislike about our alcohol laws is the effect they have of effectively killing off a "café culture".

We end up with pubs and restaurants that have these god-forsaken fenced-in patios around them. It looks ridiculous. It wouldn't actually stop anyone determined to "escape" with a drink since it has to be fire-exit safe. It's asinine.

The laws as they pertain to drinking alcohol "in public" are just kind of dumb, but if you're willing to risk it (and seriously, who is going to go after you in the wilderness anyway?) you can try it. But businesses are far more constrained and it's there that the effects are really seen.
Ah yes, the dreaded fence. I like to call them little drinking prisons. As a bar owner/manager/worker in Ontario I became intimately familiar with AGCO's silly regulations regarding patios. You can't just throw a few chairs out in front of your establishment, you have to have a barrier in place (think of the children!!). There MUST be a fence surrounding people enjoying a drink in public, no exceptions!

At one bar, we had a huge corner patio (with the requisite barricade) but the problems arose with our two entrances. We had an atrium which fronted the patio and our two entrances were located at the ends on either side. Since the drinks had to be carried from inside to out, we had to build a barricaded walkway all along the one side (at great expense). On the other side, the entrance was located 5 m from the barricaded patio and in order to transport drinks through that door, we were required to build yet another barricaded walkway which would have eliminated 3 of our 6 parking spaces. We balked at that and consequently had to tell customers who bought drinks and were headed to the patio that they couldn't use that door- even though it was by far the closest route to the patio! We had to tell them to walk through the bar, through the inner entrance (which required a separate licence) down the long barricaded walkway onto the patio. When we were busy, people naturally went through the unbarricaded door in order to make the 5 second trip to the patio as opposed to the 10 minute battle through the packed bar, down the walkway etc. AGCO, on one of their regular 'crackdowns', parked across the street one night, waited until someone emerged with a beverage headed for the patio, and gave us a 1 week suspension + 1000$ fine for 'allowing beverage alcohol in unlicensed areas' or some such drivel. We could have appealed but that would have only attracted 'special attention' and further fines for minor infractions so we just bent over and took it. And we had to hire a guy who's only job was to stand there Thurs, Fri, Sat nights telling people to "Go the other way".

Licence holders in Ontario are terrified of running afoul of AGCO because unless you follow whatever idiotic rules they throw at you, they can- and will shut you down. You dare not question or complain because if you do, you'll be labelled as a 'troublemaker' and their wrath will descend upon you.

And there is nothing you can do.

Last edited by The Gibbroni; Jun 8, 2012 at 3:59 AM.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 4:19 AM
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^Which is funny when around 50% of the pubs in Czech republic where I originally come from have playgrounds next to their outside space (which is absolutely fantastic for anyone with kids). That and the ability to drink anywhere and anytime you want, buses, trains, parks, malls, government offices, where ever, with no closing times for pubs or the sale of alcohol at any and all types of stores. To top it off passengers in your car can drink which is another big plus (0% limit for drivers). Honestly I dont understand Canada in this respect, its just messed up.

Funny how grown adults can be arguing like little kids about what they can and cant do with their free harmless casual time in public. Sad honestly but if this is what you grow up in then I suppose I cant blame you. Freedom my ass by the way, Canada is one of the more repressive western countries..I still love it but these little things really drag me down, I feel like a caged animal sometimes. /rant
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  #86  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 4:31 AM
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^Which is funny when around 50% of the pubs in Czech republic where I originally come from have playgrounds next to their outside space (which is absolutely fantastic for anyone with kids). That and the ability to drink anywhere and anytime you want, buses, trains, parks, malls, government offices, where ever, with no closing times for pubs or the sale of alcohol at any and all types of stores. To top it off passengers in your car can drink which is another big plus (0% limit for drivers). Honestly I dont understand Canada in this respect, its just messed up.

Funny how grown adults can be arguing like little kids about what they can and cant do with their free harmless casual time in public. Sad honestly but if this is what you grow up in then I suppose I cant blame you. Freedom my ass by the way, Canada is one of the more repressive western countries..I still love it but these little things really drag me down, I feel like a caged animal sometimes. /rant
Germany FTW, but most of Europe, Asia, Africa, South and Central America...

Strange that we can visit other countries, reminisce about that "romantic evening we spent with a bottle of wine on the beach/in a park/on the street, watching the sun come up" yet return home and say "Oh no, that could could never work here! Think of the children!!"

Odd, to say the least.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 4:38 AM
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That's how I feel when I go back to Canada. Everything pertaining to alcohol becomes a frustrating experience when compared to 'communist' China.

If you change your table in a restaurant, does your server still have to carry your alcoholic beverage for you because the restaurant doesn't have a bar license? I remember a restaurant I worked at getting fined once because the server let the customer carry their own beer to their new table. Beyond stupid.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 4:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
^Which is funny when around 50% of the pubs in Czech republic where I originally come from have playgrounds next to their outside space (which is absolutely fantastic for anyone with kids). That and the ability to drink anywhere and anytime you want, buses, trains, parks, malls, government offices, where ever, with no closing times for pubs or the sale of alcohol at any and all types of stores. To top it off passengers in your car can drink which is another big plus (0% limit for drivers). Honestly I dont understand Canada in this respect, its just messed up.

Funny how grown adults can be arguing like little kids about what they can and cant do with their free harmless casual time in public. Sad honestly but if this is what you grow up in then I suppose I cant blame you. Freedom my ass by the way, Canada is one of the more repressive western countries..I still love it but these little things really drag me down, I feel like a caged animal sometimes. /rant
I am 100% with you on this one. We could also extend the debate to drugs, but that's on a whole other level of stupidity.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 4:45 AM
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[QUOTE=cornholio;5727047]^
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Which is funny when around 50% of the pubs in Czech republic where I originally come from have playgrounds next to their outside space (which is absolutely fantastic for anyone with kids).
Mondial de la bière, the biggest beer festival in Montréal, has a children's play area set aside for people who bring their kids. Because going to a beer festival is not necessarily about getting WASTED!! A concept that seems to be lost in other parts of the country.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 4:50 AM
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^ And that's exactly it. English Canada doesn't seem to understand that not everyone drinks to get drunk. Some, like myself, have this sense called TASTE, and enjoy the taste of good wine and good beer over drinking it just to get wasted.

Canada can make you feel like you've been grounded for someone else doing something bad.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 5:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
^Which is funny when around 50% of the pubs in Czech republic where I originally come from have playgrounds next to their outside space (which is absolutely fantastic for anyone with kids). That and the ability to drink anywhere and anytime you want, buses, trains, parks, malls, government offices, where ever, with no closing times for pubs or the sale of alcohol at any and all types of stores. To top it off passengers in your car can drink which is another big plus (0% limit for drivers). Honestly I dont understand Canada in this respect, its just messed up.
Many of the laws make no sense because the problems they are meant to prevent are covered by different laws. The passenger drinking or open liquor in the front of a car is a good example. Having a high BAC is already illegal. If somebody is pulled over and they're over the limit they've broken the law regardless of what booze is in the car. Conversely, if there's a beer sitting in the cup holder and the driver has a 0% BAC then there isn't actually anything wrong.

I believe the system is the way it is because certain groups (police, bureaucrats) benefit significantly from the draconian laws. A large number of individuals suffer and society is harmed by the laws, but it's not actually worth it for anybody to fight. It's also pretty easy to create social pressure to scare people away from opposing some laws like this -- either you're thinking of the children or you're a reckless alcoholic.

I wish Canada had a stronger libertarian streak and a group to push for reforms with this stuff. Canadians are often too deferential to authority. Then again, Americans are often more aggressive and litigious but they still have lots of stupid laws.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 5:10 AM
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^ And that's exactly it. English Canada doesn't seem to understand that not everyone drinks to get drunk. Some, like myself, have this sense called TASTE, and enjoy the taste of good wine and good beer over drinking it just to get wasted.

Canada can make you feel like you've been grounded for someone else doing something bad.
The dumbest thing I've ever witnessed (and keep in mind that I grew up in Ontario) was at a concert at BC Place. In order to prevent any underage person from buying a beer (gasp!), they decided to ask EVERYBODY, regardless of age, for ID. After standing in line for over half an hour in order to grab the max 2 beers per person, I finally made it to the front of the line: "Two please" "Can I see some ID" "I'm 39" "I have to see some photo ID or I can't serve you" "But my gf has my wallet and I've stood in line for over half an hour" I'm sorry, I need to see photo ID".

WTF?
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  #93  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 5:36 AM
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Originally Posted by giallo View Post
^ And that's exactly it. English Canada doesn't seem to understand that not everyone drinks to get drunk. Some, like myself, have this sense called TASTE, and enjoy the taste of good wine and good beer over drinking it just to get wasted.

Canada can make you feel like you've been grounded for someone else doing something bad.
I completely agree with this. I lived in Beijing (the belly of the beast, if you will), and my simplest pleasure was banging on the window of my local convenience store (which is in fact just some poor bugger's ground floor bedroom apartment), waking him up, and buying two 500 ml bottles of Yanjing beer at 5:00 in the morning. Don't even get me started on being allowed to buy beer at a corner shop and freely and openly drinking it on the Beijing's teeming main bar streets (rather than buying it for "bar prices" [i.e., $1 CDN].)

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I wish Canada had a stronger libertarian streak and a group to push for reforms with this stuff. Canadians are often too deferential to authority. Then again, Americans are often more aggressive and litigious but they still have lots of stupid laws.
Sadly, North American "libertarians" only ever seem to campaign for lower taxes for the uber-rich and less restrictive gun control rather than fun things like less restrictive drug and alcohol regulation or government-mandated orgies.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 8:38 AM
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^ And that's exactly it. English Canada doesn't seem to understand that not everyone drinks to get drunk. Some, like myself, have this sense called TASTE, and enjoy the taste of good wine and good beer over drinking it just to get wasted.

Canada can make you feel like you've been grounded for someone else doing something bad.
Clearly somebody's never been to KW in October. You or habfanman.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 9:25 AM
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No, I haven't. Where's/What's a KW?
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  #96  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 9:34 AM
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No, I haven't. Where's/What's a KW?
KW is Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario.

It hosts the largest Oktoberfest festival in the world outside of Munich. It has all the things described (people not drinking to get drunk, drinking beer in the streets, family-oriented activities as well as the beer-related activities). Definitely not the habfanman alcohol-strict Ontario stereotype.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 9:38 AM
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^That's cool, and good to hear. In Canada, I've only lived in BC, and liquor laws in ol' Lotusland are ridiculous - especially if you live in a town/city where the RCMP are your local police force.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 10:58 AM
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I think the number of people drinking for the enjoyment of the beverage at Oktoberfest are far and away outnumbered by the drunk people.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 11:09 AM
The Gibbroni The Gibbroni is offline
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KW is Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario.

It hosts the largest Oktoberfest festival in the world outside of Munich. It has all the things described (people not drinking to get drunk, drinking beer in the streets, family-oriented activities as well as the beer-related activities). Definitely not the habfanman alcohol-strict Ontario stereotype.
It's clear that you've never been. There's no drinking in the streets, no drinking during the parade, no drinking even at the remarkably beer-free tapping of the keg opening ceremony! Just drinking in beer tents, hockey arenas and beer 'gardens' (fenced-in areas). You line up to get in, line up to buy tickets, line up to exchange tickets for beer. And since Molson-Coors took over sponsorship, pretty much the only beer served is Canadian and Coors Light swill.. in plastic cups! The family-oriented activities are kept well apart from the beer-related activities (think of the children!!)

If you want to line up forever to drink lame overpriced swill, eat crappy overpriced food on cheesy picnic tables covered in Molson Rocktoberfest plastic while listening to Hans and his Merrymen belting out the Chicken Dance for the 300th time to room full of drunks... Oktoberfest is for you!

You should go sometime
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  #100  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gibbroni View Post
It's clear that you've never been. There's no drinking in the streets, no drinking during the parade, no drinking even at the remarkably beer-free tapping of the keg opening ceremony! Just drinking in beer tents, hockey arenas and beer 'gardens' (fenced-in areas). You line up to get in, line up to buy tickets, line up to exchange tickets for beer. And since Molson-Coors took over sponsorship, pretty much the only beer served is Canadian and Coors Light swill.. in plastic cups! The family-oriented activities are kept well apart from the beer-related activities (think of the children!!)

If you want to line up forever to drink lame overpriced swill, eat crappy overpriced food on cheesy picnic tables covered in Molson Rocktoberfest plastic while listening to Hans and his Merrymen belting out the Chicken Dance for the 300th time to room full of drunks... Oktoberfest is for you!

You should go sometime


I've been the last 6 years buddy.

You know Pierre Trudeau isn't the Prime Minister anymore, right?
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