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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2008, 7:44 PM
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 3:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Denver Bear View Post
I don't understand how a "church" can weigh in on "state" issues.... where is the seperation?
The separation is to prevent "the church" from operating the government - much as the Roman Catholic church did in Europe for a few centuries and then other church/states like operations such as the church of England. There is still the right to assembly and protest. So any church is an assembly of people and they may protest as they wish.

In order for politicians to be elected, they need the support of large groups. Traditionally, conservative politicians have relied more upon votes from people in church groups. In order to ensure re-election, they must do what their voters approve of. It's no different from the way the Democrats cater to the illegal immigrants to sway more votes from minority citizens who tend to favor illegal immigrant agendas. That's why politics today is a joke. They cater special needs too much and are afraid to stand alone for what truly is best.

That is not leadership.

As far as the gambling issue...
I don't see the traditional arguments against gambling as being strong arguments. Traditionally, church groups oppose gambling laws by claiming it feeds off the poor and reinforces addictive behaviors. It makes the poor, poorer and further crumbles their perceived middle class social structure. In the case of Black Hawk/Central City and Cripple Creek, these arguments do not work well. These cities were nearly "dead" before gambling and have small permanent populations. The poor cannot easily access these cities from larger cities on a regular basis. These mountain gambling towns look to function more as a gambling resort destination. Raising the stakes will help this transition to occur. The ski resorts pull heavy winter tourism, but weak summer tourism. These casinos have the potential to turn into popular summer resort destinations, thus helping to boost economic contributions to the state in the summer months and also add to the economic impact of the ski resorts in the winter months (as they operate year around).
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 8:18 AM
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Snyder, my comment was sarcastic. But since you replied, I feel the religious right HAVE been running this country for the past 7 years. Churches, no matter what denomination, should be silent on any and every political issue PUBLICLY. Not sending people into the streets to recruit and sway votes, not praying on national TV for the assasination of world leaders. What ever they say in their place of worship is their business.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Denver Bear View Post
I feel the religious right HAVE been running this country for the past 7 years.
Can you give me an example of how "the church" has specifically changed your life in the past seven years? Have you had any rights or privileges taken away? Do you make less money because of the church? Did they prevent you from leaving the country? Seriously…how has the religious right affected you as an individual of this country to go about your freewill?

I think you have been poisoned by the media and you give the religious right credit for something they haven't really done.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 5:07 PM
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Can you give me an example of how "the church" has specifically changed your life in the past seven years? Have you had any rights or privileges taken away? Do you make less money because of the church? Did they prevent you from leaving the country? Seriously…how has the religious right affected you as an individual of this country to go about your freewill?

I think you have been poisoned by the media and you give the religious right credit for something they haven't really done.

The federal DOMA. I am a gay man and my partner is Canadian. He can not immigrate here through marriage, for now. I know gay marriage was not legal before, but limiting who I can or can not marry in federal law does affect my free will. We have also tried every other route to keep him here, spending more than I care to mention on lawyers. So I have to leave the country I love to be with the person I love. Is THAT specific enough for you?

Bush said he is protecting the "sacrament" of marriage, and said we are all "sinners". Those words alone say this was a christian based decion. But the right never made statements against Las Vegas (sin city) weddings or the game show "Who wants to marry a millionaire". Not to mention the private meetings with Falwell and Robertson, who were so vocal about this subject.

You don't know me, so don't judge me. So please keep your comments about how you "think" I have been poisoned to yourself. I have not been in doctrined, and can think freely for myself. I can imagine from your post which camp you are in and we are most likely at opposite ends of the spectrum there, and would like to keep things civil here.
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Last edited by Denver Bear; Jan 9, 2008 at 5:28 PM.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Denver Bear View Post
The federal DOMA. I am a gay man and my partner is Canadian. He can not immigrate here through marriage, for now. I know gay marriage was not legal before, but limiting who I can or can not marry in federal law does affect my free will. We have also tried every other route to keep him here, spending more than I care to mention on lawyers. So I have to leave the country I love to be with the person I love. Is THAT specific enough for you?

Bush said he is protecting the "sacrament" of marriage, and said we are all "sinners". Those words alone say this was a christian based decion. But the right never made statements against Las Vegas (sin city) weddings or the game show "Who wants to marry a millionaire". Not to mention the private meetings with Falwell and Robertson, who were so vocal about this subject.

You don't know me, so don't judge me. So please keep your comments about how you "think" I have been poisoned to yourself. I have not been in doctrined, and can think freely for myself. I can imagine from your post which camp you are in and we are most likely at opposite ends of the spectrum there, and would like to keep things civil here.
Then there was Ref. I last year, that would have legalized domestic partnerships in Colorado. The religious right voted against it heavily, so it didn't win. Evangelical preachers across the state told their people to vote against it before we "destroyed their families".
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 6:25 PM
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Most people don't care.....

...what the religious right wants to teach or pray for. If they want to have bigger and bigger churches and teach against evolution or gay rights, it's their right to do so. But when they leave the walls and property of said church and try to tell me how to live, or politically try to influence my life but still retain their tax free status, that's where I have a problem. They should not pro-actively be involved in politics anymore than a coven of witches should try to make determinations for all of us. I am tired of right wing religious inspired pictures of aborted fetuses being shown to children on our public streets. I am tired of special interest groups running America for their own political ends. I am tired of the religious right outright affecting the socio/economic makeup of Colorado Springs. Didn't churches used to teach what was in the bible?
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Denver Bear View Post
and would like to keep things civil here.
To be civil and avoid such off topicness, you have a PM.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Bear View Post
Snyder, my comment was sarcastic. But since you replied, I feel the religious right HAVE been running this country for the past 7 years. Churches, no matter what denomination, should be silent on any and every political issue PUBLICLY. Not sending people into the streets to recruit and sway votes, not praying on national TV for the assasination of world leaders. What ever they say in their place of worship is their business.
That would not be a free society, that would be a socialistic society. Your talking about putting limitations on freedom of religion, freedom of public assembly and freedom of speech... Yet at the same time are asking for more freedoms for yourself associated with gay marriage? I'm not hounding you. But do you see the irrationality or selfishness of that? I'm not opposed to gay marriage. I say let people do what they want - even churches and gay people! =) Why limit anyone? I am anti-limits. In fact, I feel marriage (period) is an obsolete cultural heritage that does nothing but limit people and place conditions (or limits) on their happiness and pursuit of happiness. But anyway, I know I don't have all the answers and I am not going to put limits on you or your beliefs, even if they don't make since to me.

Personally, I think gambling isn't a good thing. It's wasteful and rather ruthless. But there's no reason to limit people from doing it, if that's what they wish to do! It's not immoral or violent. No reason for it to be a crime. It's just kind of stupid, is all... but hey, I do stupid stuff too! lots of stupid stuff! =)
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 4:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
That would not be a free society, that would be a socialistic society. Your talking about putting limitations on freedom of religion, freedom of public assembly and freedom of speech... Yet at the same time are asking for more freedoms for yourself associated with gay marriage? I'm not hounding you. But do you see the irrationality or selfishness of that? I'm not opposed to gay marriage. I say let people do what they want - even churches and gay people! =) Why limit anyone? I am anti-limits. In fact, I feel marriage (period) is an obsolete cultural heritage that does nothing but limit people and place conditions (or limits) on their happiness and pursuit of happiness. But anyway, I know I don't have all the answers and I am not going to put limits on you or your beliefs, even if they don't make since to me.

Personally, I think gambling isn't a good thing. It's wasteful and rather ruthless. But there's no reason to limit people from doing it, if that's what they wish to do! It's not immoral or violent. No reason for it to be a crime. It's just kind of stupid, is all... but hey, I do stupid stuff too! lots of stupid stuff! =)
Hold up, there is a law that says they can not influence government. The same law says government can not influence their religion. There is a distinct line drawn by the law. They not only blurred it, but marched right across it. They are imposing their beliefs on me, affecting how I live my life. What happened to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Should they get to dictate what makes me personally happy? No, as I shouldn't get to tell them how to live their personal lives. How is that selfish or irrational? Would you change your tune if you were the focus of their attacks and hate?

And BTW, we are more socialistic society than people want to believe. Corporate bail outs, welfare, WIC, social security, food stamps, public schools, child services and unemployement benefits would not exsist in a true capitalistic society.

Back to gambling, I sell this one woman scratch tickets EVERY day. Sometimes she tells me she had to borrow money to keep playing, or that she is spending her rent money. It's absolutely horrible, and sometimes I honestly feel sick about it. But, she is a grown adult and is responsible for her own actions. It's her own money, her actions don't affect me, so who am I to say anything. I hope the gambling towns get full reign, if they want it. They (the citizens in the towns) should be the ones to decide; because the decison will affect them personally, not us in Denver, not the people of Colorado Springs.
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Last edited by Denver Bear; Jan 10, 2008 at 4:44 AM.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 4:25 AM
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 9:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Denver Bear View Post
Back to gambling, I sell this one woman scratch tickets EVERY day. Sometimes she tells me she had to borrow money to keep playing, or that she is spending her rent money. It's absolutely horrible, and sometimes I honestly feel sick about it. But, she is a grown adult and is responsible for her own actions. It's her own money, her actions don't affect me, so who am I to say anything. I hope the gambling towns get full reign, if they want it. They (the citizens in the towns) should be the ones to decide; because the decison will affect them personally, not us in Denver, not the people of Colorado Springs.
That makes perfect since to me. However, since there is already state law regulating it, there is an obvious need for statewide approval with the voting process to change any existing state laws. Perhaps the new state law should allow such decisions to be made at the city or county level? However, that would allow new gaming towns to pop up, which might take away from the centralization of gaming in Colorado.

So, perhaps a simple easement of existing laws regarding higher stakes would be best? That is what is being proposed, right?

Denver Bear,
I think your interpretation of the US Constitution is closer to how the joke called the ACLU interprets the Constitution, and less how our forefathers actually wrote it to mean. Don't misunderstand me either. I'm not taking the Christian position on this. The Christians also misinterpret the constitution to the right wing side, the ACLU misinterprets the constitution to the left wing side of things.

The purpose of separation of church from state is not to prohibit church groups from living politically active lives. It is not to place limits on what they can express to others about their beliefs (even if it's political expression). It's not to keep religious beliefs from being displayed in public spaces. As annoying as Christians and Muslims are about trying to enforce their beliefs on me and others, it's simply just a fact of life. You have to deal with it. It's human nature.

The Christians are also wrong. The constitution was not written on a Christian foundation. It was written in a classical context and by men of various beliefs. The separation of church from state is not solely to protect the church from the state. The Christians envision a fusion of government and religious beliefs. That is right wing extremism. People of faith feel a need to impose onto others, that which they believe. Just as some far-left wing people wish to stomp out religious strongholds altogether. It's human nature to want everyone to share your own beliefs.

It's simple, the separation of church from state simply means there is not to be a government high priestess or government appointed church or religious leader to oversee political functions. The government is to operate without the oversight of the church and the church is to operate without the oversight of the government.
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Last edited by SnyderBock; Jan 10, 2008 at 9:14 AM.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 5:17 AM
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you are disrespectful and insulting, you think you are right and everyone else is wrong. If you care to continue this, PM me. I would like to spare everyone else, and would like a chance to not hold back on my views.
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Last edited by Denver Bear; Jan 11, 2008 at 5:39 AM.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 5:24 AM
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Sooooo how about that Casino there eh? Can't wait to blow my month's paycheck at the blackjack table, then following with a nice kingsize bed in the suite on the 33rd floor.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 5:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnyderBock
The poor cannot easily access these cities from larger cities on a regular basis.
If you don't think poor people go to Black Hawk, you should ride the $15 bus with me from Buckingham Mall sometime. The fare is returned as gambling credit if you spend more than $50 at one of the participating casinos.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 2:09 PM
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you are disrespectful and insulting, you think you are right and everyone else is wrong. If you care to continue this, PM me. I would like to spare everyone else, and would like a chance to not hold back on my views.
No disrespect intended. I would love to learn more about your point of view. Perhaps I am misinformed?


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Originally Posted by KidKonza View Post
If you don't think poor people go to Black Hawk, you should ride the $15 bus with me from Buckingham Mall sometime. The fare is returned as gambling credit if you spend more than $50 at one of the participating casinos.
I guess your right KidKonza. Higher stakes should help attract wealthier gamblers though, shouldn't it? The lower income gamblers usually don't bring enough dough for much higher stakes. Do you think higher stakes gambling is a good thing or bad thing?
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 11:56 PM
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Ameristar Black Hawk Hotel Update 06.01.08

The new hotel at the Ameristar Black Hawk is progressing nicely. Looks like the structural concrete for the podium is complete and typical floors are underway. The top deck in the photos is level 12. These are some photos I took this afternoon.





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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2008, 12:14 AM
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Wow...

....thanks for the shots....I wondered how it was progressing
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2008, 12:20 AM
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Logic would stand to reason that if they can hold a 4-5 day cycle on the decks, it should be topped out in September '08.

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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2008, 2:50 PM
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It's funny to think that the tallest building outside of Denver metro will not be in Colorado Springs, but in Black Hawk! I guess it could be the Las Vegas of the Rockies. They don't have much room for sprawl, so densifying is a good idea.
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