[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[hoser111]

Howard Epstein in the Coast:

"“I’ve always been clear that I’m very much in favour of development in downtown Halifax"

Howard Epstein in the Chronicle Herald:

"The veteran MLA said there’s enough room downtown for all office and residential needs to be accommodated in new buildings of six storeys or less"

I want to scream!

[Jonovision]

It was a childish thing for him to do and I hope beyas is right in thinking that he is a sore loser and that he is losing the battle.


MLA: Convention centre too rich

Taxpayers would be on the hook for $160 million, Epstein says


By DAVID JACKSON

and DAVENE JEFFREY

Staff Reporters

The new convention centre proposed for downtown Halifax would cost taxpayers about $160 million, says New Democrat backbencher Howard Epstein.

The Halifax Chebucto MLA said Mon day that bureaucrats used that number in their presentation to the NDP caucus last Wednesday.

He said the province and Halifax Re gional Municipality would be expected to cough up $57 million each, with Otta wa covering the other $46 million.

The entire project, proposed by devel oper Rank Inc. for the former Halifax Herald site, has an estimated price tag of close to $500 million, Premier Darrell Dexter said last week.

The complex would include a hotel and office tower.

Epstein said he didn’t intentionally reveal the current estimate for the con vention centre portion, but it “slipped out" in a long conversation with a re porter from the Coast weekly paper.

“Those numbers should be released publicly anyway," Epstein said. “The public should have those numbers before cabinet and HRM council sit down to make decisions. So as I see it, no harm done."

Neither Infrastructure Renewal Minis ter Bill Estabrooks nor Dexter revealed the estimated cost after a cabinet meet ing last Thursday.

Estabrooks said Monday evening he is “hurt" that his co hort Epstein has been talking num bers in public.

“It’s inappropri ate," he said. “It’s not part of the par liamentary process.

It’s very disappoint ing. Caucus solidar ity and responsibility to us as colleagues was breached."

Estabrooks wouldn’t say if Epstein’s figures were accurate.

“I’m not into speculation with the numbers," he said. “There hasn’t been any decision made." But Estabrooks said he has known the projected cost since July 19 and had kept that in formation to himself until last week’s cabinet meeting.

Epstein said the number shouldn’t come as a big surprise since a past estimate pegged the cost of the convention centre at $140 million, to be split among the three levels of government.

He said he opposes the devel opment for many reasons, in cluding cost. He doesn’t think the province or the city can afford it, and he doesn’t believe that the economic benefits would outweigh the cost. He also pointed out that it would squeeze out other projects com peting for capital funding.

Epstein also doesn’t think there’s enough convention busi ness to justify the new centre, and he said the height of the complex would interfere with the view of Halifax Harbour from Citadel Hill. He also said the centre would be built under a public-private partnership, an arrangement that he said has stung taxpayers in the past.

The veteran MLA said there’s enough room downtown for all office and residential needs to be accommodated in new build­ings of six storeys or less.

“No matter how you slice it, it’s baloney," Epstein said of the proposed highrise.

He said he thinks the 31-member NDP caucus is deep ly divided over the project.

Halifax regional council has not yet been presented with the cost figures.

Mayor Peter Kelly, reached at his office Monday night, said he’s looking forward to seeing the real numbers, “hopefully within the next few weeks."

He said he’d like council to have a chance to discuss the final numbers before they are made public.

Word that the city and the province would be paying the same amount drew a strong reaction from Coun. Reg Rankin ( Timberlea- Prospect).

“Our investment should be proportionate to the revenue streams," Rankin said.

Halifax’s only direct income from the convention centre would be from property tax, while the province would stand to earn considerably more from income and sales taxes, he said.

Kelly said whether the prov ince and the city should pay an equal amount would depend on how the project was structured.

Coun. Sue Uteck (Northwest Arm-South End) was surprised that Epstein had spilled the financial beans.

“How irresponsible of Howard to comment," she said. “That’s why he’s not in cabinet."

Uteck said she would support the city footing the bill for its share of the centre if the city’s chief financial officer said it was affordable.

Dexter’s spokeswoman said Monday night that he wouldn’t be commenting on the situa tion.

(djackson@herald.ca) (djeffrey@herald.ca)

[halifaxboyns]

The vast majority of comments on the CH website (including one I posted) were against Epstein. So this is good.

[phrenic]

While I absolutely agree with him that the information should have been made public to begin with, he went about it in a seriously dickish way.

Anyway, the story should be about the money, not Epstein. $57 Million seems like a lot for the city to put up considering much of the revenue will go to the Province.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by phrenic

While I absolutely agree with him that the information should have been made public to begin with, he went about it in a seriously dickish way.

Anyway, the story should be about the money, not Epstein. $57 Million seems like a lot for the city to put up considering much of the revenue will go to the Province.

There seems to be a lack of public discussion on this because didn't the NDP promise to have public consultation? I'm sure it would show an even split.

I don't agree though about Epstein making it public because once it's at the caucus level - that's when the discussion goes private. If they had done the consultation first; much of the discussion points would've been public anyway - but who said what in the discussion would've remained private.

This to me shows he can't be trusted to ever handle a cabinet portfolio because there is an expectation that some discussions will be confidential until made public and he seems to just blab.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Yeah, its crazy the tactics of these people and saying that TCL is to blame.

The whole development is only 150 million!!! We just built 4 rinks that contribute nothing to the city has a whole for 40 million!!

The funny thing is... they are putting out all this propaganda, but none of what they are saying is based in any kind of fact. This whole round-about lying is stupid... I would have a bit of respect for them if they were honest.

Its undemocratic what the anti-development people are doing.

Seriously. I shake my head at Howard-the-duck. The way he puts it, you would think we should all be incensed that TCL and Rank have come to the three levels of government cap in hand, looking for 160M$ to build a convention centre.

But this has been unfolding for 5 years. EVERYONE has known all along that the convention centre portion of the project would be approximately 160 million, to be shared by three levels of government. How does everyone know this? Because the convention centre is an RFP produced BY the Nova Scotia government! The government has asked TCL and Rank to put together this proposal for them, to meet their requirements. Not the other way around.

[Phalanx]

It's all about spin and who controls the info. Unfortunately, he got the Epstein got the first shot off and set the tone. Any supporters in municipal or provincial government will now have to defend their position. They can do it well and completely shut him down, but it's still a matter of starting off on the defensive (assuming majority support anyway).

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hoser111

Howard Epstein in the Coast:

"“I’ve always been clear that I’m very much in favour of development in downtown Halifax"

Howard Epstein in the Chronicle Herald:

"The veteran MLA said there’s enough room downtown for all office and residential needs to be accommodated in new buildings of six storeys or less"

I want to scream!

It's Howie's version of Newspeak*.

(* Orwell, "1984")

[someone123]

Part of the issue is that the printed news media and some politicians in Halifax are really weak. Nobody is ever challenged very explicitly.

The six storey comment is priceless. I'm glad Epstein has decided what other people need and what works best for them. Maybe the Herald can run a weekly series on what he thinks we should all do - what kind of office furniture they should put in these six storey buildings, what colour people's drapes should be, what they should have for breakfast, and so forth.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

Part of the issue is that the printed news media and some politicians in Halifax are really weak. Nobody is ever challenged very explicitly.

The six storey comment is priceless. I'm glad Epstein has decided what other people need and what works best for them. Maybe the Herald can run a weekly series on what he thinks we should all do - what kind of office furniture they should put in these six storey buildings, what colour people's drapes should be, what they should have for breakfast, and so forth.

Well, he IS the Kommissar, so he likely has thoughts on all those things and would welcome the opportunity to impose them upon us.

[terrynorthend]

Interesting comments today in the news. Roger Taylor points out in his column in the CH that the amounts requested of the 3 levels of government are not a lump sum, but rather a leasing arrangement of 2-3 million per year at each level. This would be more than offset at the municipal level each year in property taxes collected from the site, and by the Province through increased income and sales tax revenue from the spin-off.

Tim Bousquet, speaking with Don Connolly on CBC radio indicated that Epstein is disgruntled with caucus and is likely to resign and sit as an independent, and agrees that the leak was likely an act of desperation to try and sway public and political opinion. He (Bousquet) was reluctant to answer, but when asked directly by Connolly if he thought the government was planning to support the convention centre, he said, "Yes, I believe so. That is my read on it."

[Phalanx]

Here's the clip from the show if anyone wants to listen:

http://www.cbc.ca/informationmorning...on-centre.html

[Jonovision]

It’s time to tell whole story about convention centre

By ROGER TAYLOR Business Columnist
Wed, Sep 29 - 7:25 AM





It is about time Premier Darrell Dexter revealed the full details of the proposed downtown Halifax convention centre.

This week, Howard Epstein, a convention centre opponent and NDP backbench MLA, leaked how much the project could cost taxpayers in a clear attempt to scuttle the project before it gets off the ground.

Epstein is obviously hoping that, in the absence of information to support government participation in the multimillion-dollar development, public uproar will force politicians to back out of the project.

The Halifax Chebucto MLA says he was told the convention centre would cost the three levels of government a total of $160 million, a turnkey number that includes setup costs, fixtures and furnishing, with the province and Halifax Regional Municipality each paying $57 million and Ottawa contributing $46 million.

But the three levels of government are not required to pay any upfront money. The province and the municipality would pay $2.28 million annually to lease the space.

That sounds like a pretty good deal, considering that a proposed $500-million development is projected to bring in about $15 million in yearly property taxes to the city, based on current tax rates. And the province will easily cover the cost of its participation through increased sales and income tax revenue from convention centre employees.

The centre would be part of a much larger Rank Inc. development on the former Halifax Herald Ltd. lands, which front on Argyle Street. With the convention centre, the development would have a price tag of about $500 million; without the centre, the project would be worth about half that.

By including the centre, the governments have an opportunity to leverage their investment into something much larger than otherwise would be built there.

The complex with the convention centre would include a 14-storey hotel and 18-storey tower, along with retail, office and residential units. It will have 500 parking spaces underground and would total about 1.2-million square feet of new construction.

In earlier interviews, Joe Ramia, the head of Rank Inc., said the former Herald lands would be developed one way or another, but plans B and C are considerably smaller.

Besides providing a stimulus to the local economy over an extended period, the construction of the centre is expected to create 1,500 jobs alone. And many more jobs would be brought to the downtown after construction is completed.

The inclusion of the centre has the backing of the downtown business community.It views the complex of buildings as a catalyst for future development.

On its website, Rank has said corporate tenants for its office component account for about 75 per cent of the available space.

While downtown landlords may have concerns about losing tenants to an exciting new project, the plan is to fill the buildings with businesses that are new to the city. Construction of the centre is also designed to spur more people to live and work downtown, which is the goal of the municipality’s HRM by Design plan. Increasing downtown population density is important because servicing that population will be less costly since many services already exist there.

Leaking the information was an act of desperation on Epstein’s part. He was willing to risk earning an untrustworthy reputation in order to get the anti-convention centre message out before the public could learn all the facts.

This project is too important to the city and the province to allow a faction of opponents to push it off the rails.

( rtaylor@herald.ca)

[Jonovision]

NDP backbencher to face music for leak
Epstein to meet with caucus after revealing convention centre price tag
By DAVID JACKSON and JEFFREY SIMPSON Provincial Reporters
Wed, Sep 29 - 4:54 AM

Howard Epstein




New Democrat backbencher Howard Epstein says he is ready to answer to his NDP colleagues today for breaching caucus confidentiality.

Epstein said Tuesday that the matter will be certainly discussed at the weekly caucus meeting today.

» It’s time to tell whole story about convention centre

"There’s going to be a discussion," the Halifax Chebucto MLA said in an interview.

"So there should be, and we’ll see where we end up."

Epstein was at last week’s caucus meeting, where MLAs heard a presentation about the proposed downtown Halifax convention centre.

Epstein revealed to a reporter from the Coast, a weekly newspaper, the estimated cost of the project — $160 million. He also said the split between the three levels of government would see the province and Halifax Regional Municipality paying $57 million each, and Ottawa $46 million.

Epstein said the price tag "slipped out" in a long conversation with the reporter.

The MLA said he hasn’t heard about any possibility of repercussions directly from Premier Darrell Dexter or caucus chairwoman Vicki Conrad.

"We’ve all worked together for a long time and I’m sure we’ll figure something out," Epstein said.

"I’ll tell my caucus colleagues exactly what happened and we’ll proceed from there. I’m more focused on the issue of the centre than I am on what happens between me and my colleagues."

Epstein said he also wasn’t worried about the incident hurting his chances of eventually being part of cabinet.

"The premier picks his cabinet and he has his reasons," Epstein said. "However much I would have liked to have been picked for cabinet, I wasn’t.

"And the reason I had always wanted to be in cabinet wasn’t a matter of personal ambition, it was because . . . it’s an interesting place to be and it’s a place to express opinions and deal with issues."

Caucus chairwoman Vicki Conrad wouldn’t characterize what happened as a breach.

"Certainly, Mr. Epstein says that he inadvertently provided confidential information and I have no reason not to believe that’s not the case," Conrad said. "Certainly, it wasn’t a malicious releasing of information.

"Whether or not there has been a breach made, that will have to be decided at caucus and discussed at the caucus table."

She said Epstein told her about giving the information to the media. Conrad wouldn’t confirm the matter would be discussed at today’s caucus meeting. She said it wasn’t on the agenda but could be added.

Antigonish MLA Maurice Smith said Tuesday afternoon that he had been on the road to Halifax early in the morning and hadn’t heard about the Epstein issue.

"If Howard did do that, then I guess he’s accountable for that, and I’m not quite sure how he’s accountable for it, but whatever the consequences are for that will flow," Smith said.

He said he was sure the matter will come up at today’s caucus meeting.

"I can’t imagine it wouldn’t."

Deputy premier Frank Corbett called the Epstein situation "interesting." He wouldn’t say whether Epstein should face consequences.

"It’s up to the caucus, it’s not up to me," Corbett said.

Lunenburg MLA Pam Birdsall agreed.

"We all need to talk about that together," Birdsall said. "I think what is said in caucus should really stay in caucus."

Conrad said caucus confidentiality is "really important."

"We do look for caucus feedback on all matters being considered by government, and confidentiality is part of that when we’re being presented with information. Most of that information is being presented to us for the first time."

( djackson@herald.ca)

( jsimpson@herald.ca)

[beyeas]

Something tells me that this will be a major topic of discussion tonight at the Fusion event :-)

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Well, he IS the Kommissar, so he likely has thoughts on all those things and would welcome the opportunity to impose them upon us.

For some reason I am picturing in my mind a look of panic on Epstein's face as KeithP chomps his cigar while revving the engine on his SUV.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by beyeas

For some reason I am picturing in my mind a look of panic on Epstein's face as KeithP chomps his cigar while revving the engine on his SUV.

Nice - as I like to say; he's someone I'd have to think about stopping for in a crosswalk and by the time I made up my mind; it would be too late.

Seriously though - there are a lot of people calling for his head. I would be surprised if they kicked him out of caucus, but if they did - rightly so. This is why you can't be a cabinet minister; there are some things you simply can't discuss in public until its appropriate.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

It’s time to tell whole story about convention centre

By ROGER TAYLOR Business Columnist
Wed, Sep 29 - 7:25 AM





It is about time Premier Darrell Dexter revealed the full details of the proposed downtown Halifax convention centre.

This week, Howard Epstein, a convention centre opponent and NDP backbench MLA, leaked how much the project could cost taxpayers in a clear attempt to scuttle the project before it gets off the ground.

Epstein is obviously hoping that, in the absence of information to support government participation in the multimillion-dollar development, public uproar will force politicians to back out of the project.

The Halifax Chebucto MLA says he was told the convention centre would cost the three levels of government a total of $160 million, a turnkey number that includes setup costs, fixtures and furnishing, with the province and Halifax Regional Municipality each paying $57 million and Ottawa contributing $46 million.

But the three levels of government are not required to pay any upfront money. The province and the municipality would pay $2.28 million annually to lease the space.
.
.
.

( rtaylor@herald.ca)

This is an interesting number $2.28 million/year x 25 years = $57 million dollars the number that Howard Epstein stated was the amount that the municipality and province would each have to pay. However, he made it sound like a lump sum amount. It certainly sounds like this was meant to deceive people. That is what bothers me more than disclosing the information - people should be able to expect complete honesty from their elected politicians.

[sdm]

Epstein apologizes to NDP caucus for leak, won't be punished

By DAVID JACKSON Provincial Reporter | UPDATED 6:03 p.m.
Wed, Sep 29 - 5:54 PM

The NDP caucus will not discipline MLA Howard Epstein for releasing confidential information about the cost of the proposed new Halifax convention centre.

Premier Darrell Dexter emerged from this afternoon's caucus meeting saying that Epstein expressed "deep sorrow" for providing the $160-million estimate to The Coast weekly newspaper.

Epstein has explained that he just let the number slip during a long conversation, and his colleagues believe him, Dexter said.

"The caucus agreed to accept his apology, agreed to accept that these were inadvertent, and that therefore there would not be any kind of disciplinary action taken against him," the premier said.

Epstein got the cost information as part of a presentation at last week's caucus meeting. He said the province and Halifax Regional Municipality are expected to pay $57 million each, and Ottawa would pay $46 million.

The Halifax Chebucto MLA, first elected in 1998, said he took questions from his colleagues today, then waited outside the meeting for about 45 minutes for their verdict.

"Although they were unhappy that it occurred, they accepted what I said to them, which was that it was something I regretted and I apologized to caucus for having let the number slip out, and I think on that basis, everyone was satisfied, and we're all going to move on together," Epstein said.

The convention centre is part of a roughly $500-million proposal from developer Rank Inc. that would include a privately-financed hotel and office tower.

Epstein has a long list of reasons that he opposes the project, including it being too rich for the province, and that it would be a public-private partnership.

Dexter wouldn't confirm the figures Epstein released. The premier said cabinet is waiting for some technical information before it makes a decision.

Dexter hadn't commented publicly on Epstein since the news broke Monday. When asked for his reaction on the way into the meeting, he said simply, "That's Howard."

(djackson@herald.ca)

[fenwick16]

I admit that I am a cynic but this all makes me wonder if this wasn't planned by the NDP in order to gauge public reaction. If it was overwhelmingly in favour of Howard Epstein they would reject the convention centre and if not they would accept. If so then they should accept the convention centre.