[Halifax] RBC Waterside Centre | 37 m | 9 fl | Completed

[Jonovision]

A rendering from an the paper today.

[terrynorthend]

She looks better from this perspective than Lwr. Water looking northwest..

[sdm]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

She looks better from this perspective than Lwr. Water looking northwest..

Yeah this is way better from this vantage, thanks for posting it as i can't figure out how to do it yet. LOL

[worldlyhaligonian]

I agree that International Place makes this development less important (especially in forumers POV). I'm on the fence about this one, moreso with its appearance vs. heritage arguements. International Place is modern and would be a good cap for the streetscape.

[sdm]

Heritage battle heats up
Group, developer at odds over historic Halifax properties
By TOM PETERS Business Reporter
Wed. Aug 6 - 5:41 AM

Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia says it has gained strong public support for its opposition to a new Halifax development and for the preservation of a number of heritage properties.

Phil Pacey, president of the heritage group, said Tuesday his organization canvassed the general public during Natal Day weekend and had 683 postcards signed in favour of asking Halifax Regional Council to protect the heritage buildings.

"The people of HRM are strongly attached to our heritage buildings," Mr. Pacey said. "Over and over, the ordinary citizens of Halifax told us of the beauty of these buildings, how important they are to the character of Halifax and what a waste it would be if they were lost."

The Armour Group of Halifax has proposed the Waterside Centre project.

It would connect existing buildings where Duke Street meets Hollis and Upper Water streets. It would save historic facades, but would include a six-storey glass office structure on top of these buildings.

The proposal has received a negative response from both the downtown planning advisory committee and the heritage advisory committee.

The project was scheduled to go before regional council Tuesday night to have a date set for a public hearing.

The heritage trust says the project would completely demolish two buildings (O’Carroll’s and Sweet Basil dining room locations) and mostly demolish three other buildings in the central block of Historic Properties.

Ben McCrea, chairman of the Armour Group, said Tuesday the buildings in question are "functionally and economically obsolete and couldn’t even be rented for warehouse space."

Mr. McCrea, developer of award-winning Founders Square, said the interiors of the heritage properties were "dramatically altered" in the 1970s to meet tenant requirements, especially those of NSCAD University.

The university has moved to a new location and Mr. McCrea said what is left is like a "rabbit warren."

He said the heritage group has shown no compromise and is "totally opposed to anything that looks like a Founders Square approach to restoring historic buildings and using them to regenerate our downtown with prime office space."

He said he has an obligation to maintain the historic building fabric, but also "build a useable, economically feasible and economically sustainable development that serves the greater purpose" of providing class A office space in downtown "to serve tenants who are going to hire the young people of Nova Scotia."

However, Mr. Pacey’s vision for the buildings is somewhat different.

"What we would love to see, and the best option would be, (is) to have somebody occupy the upstairs of these buildings as offices or for some other use," he said.

"That would be an excellent use."

The municipal planning strategy discusses suitable alterations for heritage properties "so all the interesting features on the roof and in between the facades of these buildings should be maintained," Mr. Pacey said.

The heritage group is hoping council will listen to the advice from the heritage advisory committee and the planning advisory committee, which have recommended against the project.

( tpeters@herald.ca)

[sdm]

Notice a new rendering up on HRM website

http://www.halifax.ca/planning/image...gHollisSt3.jpg

Looks really good in my opinion.

Love how heritage says to build on vacant lots.... last time i check they attempted to stall anything being proposed on vacant lots.

Sad this city is.

[phrenic]

Originally Posted by sdm

Love how heritage says to build on vacant lots.... last time i check they attempted to stall anything being proposed on vacant lots.

Yeah I thought that comment was awfully rich coming from him. What do you call the UG site then, Mr. Pacey?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by phrenic

Yeah I thought that comment was awfully rich coming from him. What do you call the UG site then, Mr. Pacey?

yeah the best is when they claim they would like to see office space development downtown.. Funny how a few months ago they claim there wasn't a need and that if there was then the government could move out.

Sad these people won't allow Halifax to grow as a city and be something we can all be proud of.

[terrynorthend]

So is there a rift developing in the Heritage community? It seems to me, Alan Parish recently wrote a letter to the editor in which he mentioned support for this development (as well as the Roy tower). I believe he favourably compared this Armour Group proposal to Delta Barrington/Granville Street Mall.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

So is there a rift developing in the Heritage community? It seems to me, Alan Parish recently wrote a letter to the editor in which he mentioned support for this development (as well as the Roy tower). I believe he favourably compared this Armour Group proposal to Delta Barrington/Granville Street Mall.

Thats what I'm thinking as well.

[sdm]

Lots of press about this one today

Council petitioned to save historic buildings
Historic landmarks face wrecking ball to make way for office space
JON TATTRIE, METRO HALIFAX
August 06, 2008 05:00




Historic Properties landmarks O’Carroll’s and Sweet Basil’s dining room will be demolished, if a Halifax developer gets its way.


The Armour Group wants to raze the two Upper Water Street buildings and construct a nine-storey glass-and-steel office building. A replica facade of the O’Carroll’s front would be attached to the tower, according to the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia. Three other buildings in the central block face partial demolition.


Trust president Phil Pacey says the move would be disastrous.


“The people of HRM are strongly attached to our heritage buildings,” he said yesterday. “Over and over … (people have told us) what a waste it would be if they were lost.”


His group is campaigning against the plans. Over the Natal Day weekend, they collected 683 signed postcards asking HRM council to protect the buildings. Those were presented to council last night.


“We are hopeful council will listen to the concerns expressed,” Pacey said. He added the trust is not against development, but would rather see heritage buildings renovated. He cited work done on the nearby Morris Tea building and the Masonic Hall on Barrington Street as good examples.


“We would love to see additional office space downtown,” Pacey said.


“There are lots of opportunities where people can build office space without destroying heritage buildings. If someone really wants brand-new space, they can certainly build on a vacant lot.”


John Chaban was visiting Halifax yesterday. The Torontonian was snapping photos of the Historic Properties and said it would be a shame to destroy the buildings.


“I like them,” he said. “That’s why I’m here. I’d hate to come back in ten years and see them gone.”


He owns a historic property in Toronto and knows the cost of maintaining them, but says it is worth it.


The Armour Group did not return calls for comment as of press time last night.

[Takeo]

Regarding the new rendering, I really like the addition of the red stone element... but it seems heavy on top of that wooden building with dormers. That said... glass would be and even more awkward transition. Metal might work. Or even horizontal redwood slats. But then you'd have maintenance issues. Very difficult design problem there... building a modern building on top of a wooden building and making it "work". Getting rid of the dormers would help make the transition look less awkward... but you can just imagine the outcry.

Also, the infill section doesn't impress me much. I would rather see the modern materials come down to the street to create a grand two story entrance... rather than just fill it in with a red brick mock historical facade. It seems that they are mimicking the O'Carrolls building there.

Finally... I thought that the Morse Tea Building was part of the project... but I guess not.

[Dmajackson]

I do agree that the red brick looks strange on top of an old wooden building so hopefully they will reconsider that.

If Morse Tea can survive a downtown expressway plan in the 60's i don't think it is surprising that it got its way out of this one.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

I do agree that the red brick looks strange on top of an old wooden building so hopefully they will reconsider that.

If Morse Tea can survive a downtown expressway plan in the 60's i don't think it is surprising that it got its way out of this one.

Your right, it does look a bit like red brick, but according to the elevations and staff report the material is actually wallace sand stone. Hopefully thats true if and when this is built.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by sdm

Your right, it does look a bit like red brick, but according to the elevations and staff report the material is actually wallace sand stone. Hopefully thats true if and when this is built.

I thought it was granite actually. Whatever it is... it's just awkward to have a heavy material sitting on top of a little wooden building. But again... it's a difficult design problem. How do you put a modern commercial building on top of a three story wooden house and make it "work". No solution would be perfect. Maybe wood or metal.

Anyway... these rendering give us a better idea of the look of the building. And it's not that bad.

[someone123]

I think this is an unfortunate consequence of how development of the core has been mishandled over the past four decades or so. We don't have a real heritage district, nor were the best original buildings protected. It doesn't even really make sense for office buildings to be in this area - they should have extended the downtown along Gottingen or something similar, where there's more room and where the transportation connections are better.

Anyway, given what we're left with, I think this development looks pretty good. This is a compromise building. Pacey just doesn't seem to want to understand that not everything in this city is going to go 100% his way. It's too bad that he is so combative.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by sdm

Trust president Phil Pacey says the move would be disastrous.


“The people of HRM are strongly attached to our heritage buildings,” he said yesterday. “Over and over … (people have told us) what a waste it would be if they were lost.”

I agree; why isn't he happy that they're not being lost? He doesn't make sense.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by sdm

Notice a new rendering up on HRM website

http://www.halifax.ca/planning/image...gHollisSt3.jpg

Looks really good in my opinion.

I find it pretty uninspiring. But it is better than leaving things as they are. The building exteriors people see at street level remain essentially the same. The interiors are places few have ever been into, so I cannot understand the objection other than on dogmatic grounds.

I just wish the architects had done a better job.

[Empire]

The design of the building is very basic. The street level brick reminds me of the horrid building that replaced Ginger's Tavern on Hollis St. This building is a loser, there is far too much destruction for what is being achieved. The area from the Delta to the waterfront could be a well defined heritage district. Bad planning and heritage opposition to good development like the Tex-park have caused this mess. Areas like the trade mart site, the sewage plant, the car rental just north of the trade mart and the metro turning center should all be home to 25 storey mixed developments. If this were the case then this obsurd situation might have been avoided. There is much more to lose than will be gained in this development.

[Takeo]

Good point Empire. I agree. For what is being gained here... a very small low rise office building with a rather uninspired design... it's not worth what is being lost.

I also agree with someone123 that it's unfortunate we don't have a well-defined heritage area... like Beacon Hill or the Back Bay in Boston... where the streets are still lit by the original gas lamps. Pretty spectacular. We have a real mish-mash here in Halifax.