PHILADELPHIA | The Arbour House @ 708 Sansom | 414 FT | 35 FLOORS - Page 12

allovertown · #**221** Posted **Apr 4, 2018, 1:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

CDR Meeting on this:

http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/...s-construction

TLDR version: CDR calls turd a turd; crowd expresses anger; Toll team walks out; project moving forward, probably unchanged.

Props to the CDR system. Truly amazing how we have a review board that can uniformly bash this crap development and yet be powerless to stop it. What is the point? I wish 1487 was here to school me on the wise ways of the CDR that I'm failing to understand.

jsbrook · #**222** Posted **Apr 4, 2018, 2:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown

Props to the CDR system. Truly amazing how we have a review board that can uniformly bash this crap development and yet be powerless to stop it. What is the point? I wish 1487 was here to school me on the wise ways of the CDR that I'm failing to understand.

Sometimes CDR (and community opposition) successfully shames developers into improvements. But Toll is probably shameless. I'm not sure what other system could work. Outside of extreme cases, an "aesthetic review" gets very subjective. I do agree that Philly is turning out a lot of bad buildings unfortunately. I'd like to figure out a way to address it. But it's hard to regulate taste in any tenable way.

Jayfar · #**223** Posted **Apr 4, 2018, 1:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Sometimes CDR (and community opposition) successfully shames developers into improvements. But Toll is probably shameless. I'm not sure what other system could work. Outside of extreme cases, an "aesthetic review" gets very subjective. I do agree that Philly is turning out a lot of bad buildings unfortunately. I'd like to figure out a way to address it. But it's hard to regulate taste in any tenable way.

In 20-20 hindsight the City dropped the ball a long time ago on two fronts – by keeping the block zoned CMX-5 and by not designating it as a small historic district. The zoning is probably the most important element, since it's so easy to get historic designations overturned for hardship and some of the buildings might have been considered non-contributing (within a Philadelphia historic district you have 3 classifications: significant, contributing and non-contributing).

A historic district is a collection of historic resources that are linked geographically or thematically. Every resource within a historic district is classified as Significant, Contributing, or Non-Contributing. The classifications are listed in the inventory of the historic district. When the Historical Commission reviews a building permit application for a Significant or Contributing resource within a historic district, it seeks to protect the individual resource as well as the historic district as a whole. When it reviews a building permit application for a Non-Contributing property within a historic district, it seeks to protect the historic district but not necessarily elements of the Non-Contributing property.

http://www.phila.gov/historical/regi...districts.aspx

Interestingly, the Society Hill Historic District abuts Jewelers Row and even includes the single block of Sansom east of it and the block of Walnut parallel to Jewelers Row. True fact®. See map linked below:

http://www.phila.gov/historical/PDF/...Hill%20Map.pdf

RonnieStevens · #**224** Posted **Apr 4, 2018, 1:15 PM**

I wish I could see what Cecil Baker envisions for this development... Because, I honestly don't think what they are proposing is so bad. I get that its a pretty regular all glass box but its not 1900 Arch either.

I am all for pushing them to build something really unique but I just cant 100% agree that the proposal is a complete abomination.

eixample · #**225** Posted **Apr 5, 2018, 2:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayfar

In 20-20 hindsight the City dropped the ball a long time ago on two fronts – by keeping the block zoned CMX-5 and by not designating it as a small historic district. The zoning is probably the most important element...

Definitely. In my opinion, the city is most at fault for the damage done to Jeweler's Row. And they still haven't changed the zoning for the rest of the block as far as I know. The city should work to identify the most important 19th century blocks in center city, like what's left of Jeweler's Row, and certain blocks of sansom west of broad, and make sure the zoning matches what is there. That way there would be less of an economic incentive to tear down old three-story buildings and any that are torn down will hopefully be replaced by buildings that fit the context. I also think we should prohibit merger of lots in these areas so that we can keep the same small footprint buildings. I don't think a big swath of the city needs to be downzoned for this, but the mix of old and new is really what will make Philly special for decades and centuries to come.

McBane · #**226** Posted **Apr 5, 2018, 2:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonnieStevens

I wish I could see what Cecil Baker envisions for this development... Because, I honestly don't think what they are proposing is so bad. I get that its a pretty regular all glass box but its not 1900 Arch either.

I am all for pushing them to build something really unique but I just cant 100% agree that the proposal is a complete abomination.

Amen. Baker has a lot of balls criticizing this. Especially given his involvement with the 19th and Chestnut tower. This building, in my opinion, is superior.

iheartphilly · #**227** Posted **Apr 5, 2018, 2:38 PM**

Regardless of all the hand-wringing on the design from Toll or mis-steps by city officials, etc. to designate one or all of the buildings as historic, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives by far. This will bring more people into the city and further increase density, we get a "nothing special" of a building, but is average at best, and Toll can get it done by right. In the end, maybe the folks that live in this to be built high rise will spend some of their good money on Jeweler's Row. Win-win for the business owners in the area and the tenants living in the Toll bldg.

I say BUILD IT!

GtownFriend · #**228** Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 9:20 PM**

Passed CDR April 9, http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/pr...%20Reviews.pdf

jsbrook · #**229** Posted **Apr 20, 2018, 1:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GtownFriend

Passed CDR April 9, http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/pr...%20Reviews.pdf

Jeweler's Row Tower CDR approval says this...."Specific detail elements that the Committee pinpointed as as necessary components of the completed construction include, but are not limited to...the inclusion of balconies that might have been drawn on the southern facade as well as balconies verbally presented on the western facade..." http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/pr...%20Reviews.pdf
So, it seems the speculation is right, and there has been a suggestion that there will be balconies that face Washington Square, which only makes sense. Also Westward towards Broad. If so, it would only be the Eastern side of the tower that does not have balconies.

towerpower123 · #**230** Posted **Apr 26, 2018, 11:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Toll Brothers' releases new design for Jewelers Row tower

http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/...lers-row-tower

...
This is much better.

This is a gorgeous tower design, but would it actually kill them to either preserve the facades of the old buildings or at least put a good masonry base facade with the beautiful crisp glass on top?

TechTalkGuy · #**231** Posted **Apr 29, 2018, 10:38 AM**

Boring all-glass design.

PurpleWhiteOut · #**232** Posted **Apr 11, 2019, 1:06 AM**

For better or for worse, there's some new movement here. Tenants of the buildings have been told to vacate by the end of May.

https://www.philly.com/real-estate/j...-20190410.html

jsbrook · #**233** Posted **Apr 11, 2019, 1:10 PM**

I imagine we will at least see demo before the end of the summer. I hope the design of whatever is ultimately built ends up better than the last public renders. And I hope it's not a surface lot or hole for too long...

mcgrath618 · #**234** Posted **Apr 11, 2019, 1:15 PM**

I don't think that the all-glass rendering is all that bad to be honest. It's a marked improvement over the original one.

Capsule F · #**235** Posted **Apr 11, 2019, 3:07 PM**

I actually like this building a lot, it just doesn't fit there.

jsbrook · #**236** Posted **Jun 21, 2019, 3:57 PM**

Demo permits are posted on building storefronts. The status of the designation of Jeweler's Row as historic district is not immediately apparent to me. It was my impression that Toll was waiting on this decision to do anything as designation would subject the condo project to design review by the Historical Commission and Architectural Committee (but not stop demolition).

City Wide · #**237** Posted **Jun 21, 2019, 5:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Demo permits are posted on building storefronts. The status of the designation of Jeweler's Row as historic district is not immediately apparent to me. It was my impression that Toll was waiting on this decision to do anything as designation would subject the condo project to design review by the Historical Commission and Architectural Committee (but not stop demolition).

Another case where demo should be tied to the start of construction. The last thing the block needs is years long hole in the ground. Has the legal issue re the lot lines, especially the public alley that is suppose to be there?

ScreamShatter · #**238** Posted **Jun 21, 2019, 6:48 PM**

If you didn't know different, one would think these renderings were for a building in NYC in an area like Chelsea or West Village. It's a beautifully designed building.

jsbrook · #**239** Posted **Jun 21, 2019, 7:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by City Wide

Another case where demo should be tied to the start of construction. The last thing the block needs is years long hole in the ground. Has the legal issue re the lot lines, especially the public alley that is suppose to be there?

Agree. I haven't heard anything about the lot line issue. But I was just told that the historic designation should be taken up later this summer. I'm still hoping it happens because I am in the camp that thinks the renders of this tower look bad and out of place and that it will benefit from design oversight. The current storefront facades will be gone, sadly. Let's make sure the highest quality replacement tower possible rises in their place...

jsbrook · #**240** Posted **Jun 21, 2019, 7:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

If you didn't know different, one would think these renderings were for a building in NYC in an area like Chelsea or West Village. It's a beautifully designed building.

It looks nothing like any building I have seen in the West Village or Chelsea. It somewhat resembles a lower quality Time Warner Center on Columbus Circle. Modern buildings in the West Village and Chelsea also generally mesh with their surroundings better even if being of a very different design than the surrounding historic low and mid-rises.