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  #1  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 5:13 PM
simonfiction simonfiction is offline
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"Vancouver coasts on its beauty, but misses out on creating vibrant city life."

Can't help but agree with a lot of what this guy says:

http://www.vancouversun.com/business...867/story.html

Quote:
Vancouver coasts on its natural assets, too rarely learning from other cities that do more with less, says Michael Goldberg, a professor emeritus at University of B.C.'s Sauder School of Business and an outspoken critic of urban planning and development.

"Great cities are about street-level experiences," he told me over the lunch the other day -at a table near the window of a pleasant little eatery, a spot I chose because there was no functioning outdoor patio this time of year on this section of busy Robson Street.

"But we [in Vancouver] rely excessively on being beautiful and being next to nature. All our planning tends to focus outward toward the views, and there has been no attention to the street-level experience for people.

"You might as well be living in a hotel in Banff."

What Vancouver needs to do, Goldberg said, is take lessons from other places that have made themselves far more vibrant. Places as diverse as Milan and Melbourne, Singapore and Seoul. Indeed, he even mentions -and this is embarrassing to me as a Vancouverite -Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto and Winnipeg as places that do better than us, at least in some ways.

From the Canadian cities on his list, he said, we should learn from their world-leading experience in creating "winter cities" -vibrant urban cores that are well protected from the elements.

"It has been known to rain here," he observes dryly. "Yet we've paid no attention to building underground passageways among shopping centres -Pacific Centre and Bentall Centre, for example."

Nor does Vancouver have arcades -those functional, often wonderful midblock connectors that have been centrepieces of downtowns in Europe and elsewhere for 200 years or more.

"It would make it much more userfriendly, because our blocks are quite long. And it creates retail space, it creates life, weather protection, a whole bunch of things."

Similarly, we need pedestrian-only streets and squares, and pedestrian bridges to link now-separate neighbourhoods like the north and the south sides of False Creek. Goldberg also cites a plan once drawn up by a University of B.C colleague, architect Bud Wood, to convert Carrall Street into a shop-and restaurant-lined canal between False Creek and Burrard Inlet.

"This is bold planning," he said. "But we don't do bold planning."

The city has done a good job of protecting and enhancing the oftenspectacular views along much of its waterfront, he said, but then it tightly limits what people can do there. Permits for outdoor patios, to mention just one thing, are extremely difficult to obtain.

"I look at the park where I live at Coal Harbour. Why not use the first 30 or 40 feet of grass -cover it over with retail opportunities, use part of the walkway for chairs where people can sit out and drink and eat and enjoy themselves?

"The same thing at False Creek. There are beautiful opportunities to build retail right out onto the waterfront so people can stroll and stop for a beer.

"The view of city planners is that a park means walking. It's somebody's preconception."

Vancouver is a latecomer to the triedand-true formula of blending retail and living space in the same streets, he said. And we still don't plan for nearly enough density to lower home prices and enhance livability -in part because transportation and land-use planning are disjointed and badly done.

"The fact the Cambie Corridor study was launched three months after the Canada Line opened is shocking. They knew for five years it was being built. The plan should have been there when it opened.

"And now the densities they've come up with are pitiful."

These are, he concedes, harsh words. "But lots of other people praise the city, and I don't see many people throwing horseshoes made out of lead. So, as an academic, that's my job."

dcayo@vancouversun.com To comment, visit Don Cayo's blog at www.vancouversun.com/cayo

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Opinion+...#ixzz1NI65vPBm
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  #2  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 5:24 PM
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  #3  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 5:39 PM
simonfiction simonfiction is offline
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Is there any sort of pedestrian-only square in sight for Vancouver?
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  #4  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 6:00 PM
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My wife and I could have written that article. Pretty much everything he says (except the canal along Carrall Street) we've been saying for the 10 years we've been here.

My point: If I think it, there's probably 100+ more people thinking the same thing.

So what happens next?
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  #5  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 7:06 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
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Sorry, but I'm calling BS on a lot of his points:
-Underground pedestrian malls created vibrant street life? Pffft.
-Our planning focuses on views? Name me a commercial area that does this.
-More Pedestrian Malls. Granville Street Fail.
-No patios open at this time of year? Yeah, cause its wet. Enclose it and its no longer a patio.

The only thing I can think of that might have illsutrated his point (and he doesn't mention) was the wanton neglect of the Plaza of Nations, which at least created a covered area for public gatherings, but was never used to its potential.
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  #6  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 7:29 PM
simonfiction simonfiction is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Sorry, but I'm calling BS on a lot of his points:
-Underground pedestrian malls created vibrant street life? Pffft.
-Our planning focuses on views? Name me a commercial area that does this.
-More Pedestrian Malls. Granville Street Fail.
-No patios open at this time of year? Yeah, cause its wet. Enclose it and its no longer a patio.

The only thing I can think of that might have illsutrated his point (and he doesn't mention) was the wanton neglect of the Plaza of Nations, which at least created a covered area for public gatherings, but was never used to its potential.
Some of it seems exaggerated, like you pointed out, but don't you think a lot of it rings true?

As for pedestrianisation, I heard that Granville St pedestrianisation was considered a failiure back in the day, but I don't see why that should shy us away from trying to create a decent pedestrian space now. I don't think drastic changes are needed - but just *something* would be nice. I'm still holding out for a square - car free and served by restaurants, cafes and bars. A natural central gathering point would make so much difference to the city IMO.
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  #7  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 7:36 PM
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"The fact the Cambie Corridor study was launched three months after the Canada Line opened is shocking. They knew for five years it was being built. The plan should have been there when it opened.

"And now the densities they've come up with are pitiful."


I'm surprised that this doesn't get mentioned more often. I don't think ground has broken on one project in the Cambie corridor between Broadway and Marine. Is this careful planning, or a city hall that is too afraid to make big decisions?

It's like watching paint dry.
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  #8  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 7:39 PM
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ckkelley ckkelley is offline
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It seems to me that downtown Vancouver is doing just fine thank-you very much.

This article is a nonsense piece. Could downtown Vancouver improve? I suppose, marginally, but who really cares?
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  #9  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonfiction View Post
Some of it seems exaggerated, like you pointed out, but don't you think a lot of it rings true?

As for pedestrianisation, I heard that Granville St pedestrianisation was considered a failiure back in the day, but I don't see why that should shy us away from trying to create a decent pedestrian space now. I don't think drastic changes are needed - but just *something* would be nice. I'm still holding out for a square - car free and served by restaurants, cafes and bars. A natural central gathering point would make so much difference to the city IMO.
the convention centre is the square - soon will have restuarants if cactus club ever gets its butt in gear and starts already
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  #10  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 8:58 PM
Mininari Mininari is offline
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No Vibrant street life in Vancouver?????? Is this guy on crack?
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  #11  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 9:05 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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It is true that, in the past, Vancouver very much "leaned on its looks." Additionally, the lure of the outdoors is so great, that that takes precedence over other, in-the-city, or cultural developments. (look at flat, Siberian-style Winnipeg and its ballet as an example, or Edmonton and its myriad theatres)

I don't think the article is totally exaggerated; there are things that could be done, surely - particularly in the realm of public art - that would enliven the streetscape: sculptures, lamps, and so forth.

Plus, a tunnel linking the Royal and Bentall Centres, in my opinion, will not suck pedestrian traffic and destroy street-level retail along Georgia Street; there is very little pedestrian shopping there.

As for a people-only square? What about the VAG square on Georgia?
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  #12  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 9:31 PM
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I think Vancouver is certainly a lot better than many cities, but the main thing that holds it back (from some imaginary and highly subjective status, mind you) are the people who live here.

We're about as vibrant as we can be without mass protests
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Old Posted May 24, 2011, 10:16 PM
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if you want excitement today go to georgia and hamilton and join the few hundred gathered to watch the game on the screen at the CBC plaza...
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  #14  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 11:14 PM
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Think the author has good intentions but doesn't know what he's talking about. Underground passages do not add vibrancy, I'm all for adding a few missing links but not for the sake of vibrancy. Also arcades are terrible things, hate them even more then Ferris wheels.
Where we need additional improvements is streetwalls, our urban landscape is pretty damn good but could use some fine tuning. Was down in Portland for the long weekend and they defineately get it (withing the core anyways).
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  #15  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mininari View Post
No Vibrant street life in Vancouver?????? Is this guy on crack?
No, but a lot of our "vibrant street life" is.
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  #16  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 11:33 PM
GMasterAres GMasterAres is offline
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I agree with Jlousa in that I disagree with some of this person's suggestions. The overall premiss though that Vancouver especially Downtown Vancouver lacks street life though is pretty much spot on. If you've travelled to major cities around the World you'll know this instantly.

Walk through Vancouver and tell me what street life there is.

1) People walking
2) A few hot dog stands
3) The odd guy with a guitar playing music
4) Homeless people here and there

That's not just Vancouver though. Many major cities on teh west coast have no street life. Seattle? Make me laugh. Calgary. Good luck. Edmonton? None there too.

I will grant that the street life does increase when the weather gets better but I think that's part what the article writer is trying to get at. We know it rains here a lot. Why don't we build to accomodate that.

Patios for example don't have to be "closed" boxes in order to be rain protected. Resturaunts all over have started installing heaters in them to keep them warmer during colder days. Well there i no reaon why they can't roof them in such a way to help keep the rain away but still have it "open" to give you that patio look and feel.

You can still have street level open markets. And you can make pedestrian passages that aren't tunnels. I think that's where he is aiming.

The problem in Vancouver is we all seem to have this notion that if you build an underground "tunnel" or overground walkway for pedestrians, that it suddenly has to be some 2 foot wide single file funnel.

Go to Venice and you'll see how vibrant "overpasses" can be. You can easily build underground walkways for bad weather that are wide enough to accomodate more traffic than on the street above and have shops lining either side.

Either way I think his point is valid. Vancouver has over the past 10 or so years at least in my opinion (as someone born and raised in metro-Vancouver) has started to get overly confident and arrogant. Is it beautiful? Sure.

But is that all it is?

Slowly it is starting to be.

Last time I had a friend from out of town come to Vancouver, first thing we did was jump in my car and drive to Whistler. We don't want to be just where the airport is before you head to the more interesting parts of BC.
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  #17  
Old Posted May 24, 2011, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
Also arcades are terrible things...
Somebody disagrees with you, because we're getting another one in my neighborhood.

Oh...forget it.

Last edited by logan5; May 25, 2011 at 12:18 AM.
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  #18  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Somebody disagrees with you, because we're getting another one in my neighborhood.
I belive the arcades the author refers to are the ones you find in London (ie. Burlington Arcade), or even better Sydney, where they are "mini-malls" crossing midblock between parallel streets.
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  #19  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 2:55 AM
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No vibrant street life??? 4000 hobos beg to differ...Have you been to East Hasting lately? People practically live on the street. As a side note I am at a loss why was "Hobo with a shotgun" not filmed here...

Seriously, I am not sure what people are expecting. We do have an OK street life for the size of our city. If you go downtown on weekends Granville, Burrard and Robson and buzzing with people. If people are expecting the entire downtown to be like Times Square that is simply not realistic - we don't have nearly enough people living here for such a thing. In addition, we still have very low density over a huge area and a lot of people live too far to participate in street life (how many people south of Fraser are going to come on a regular basis to Vancouver). Also we have a number of spots where people can go - such as Commercial and lately Main, plus central Broadway in addition to Downtown. Not to mention malls - come to Metrotown on the weekend and observe your "mall life" at work replacing "street life". Thats a lot of area to cover for limited numbers of locals.

Last edited by WBC; May 25, 2011 at 3:50 AM.
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  #20  
Old Posted May 25, 2011, 3:43 AM
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I agree with WBC...vancouver has a fair bit of street life for the size of the city. It's easy to forget that we have a small population base. We are not Europe. And WBC is right, our focal points are spread out, be it Kits, Commercial Drive, SOMA, Denman etc....we don't just focus everyone downtown. And we are and always will be defined by our proximity to the great outdoors. This is hardly a revelation and has been written about before.

As for the article, it lost my attention when Calgary, Deadmonton and Winterpeg were described as more vibrant. I have spent a lot of time in both Edmonton and Calgary...their downtowns are amongst the most void of life when the sun goes down. As for underground walkways etc to escape the rain.....that's what brollys are for. We have the Pacifc Centre which has done a very good job at reducing street level activity.

The only part I really agree with is the fact that our waterfronts are not used to their full potential. We have plenty of park space on the front, but more areas to have a beer etc would be a big plus.

there's room for improvement but we are getting there.
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