Mobile Development Thread

[NitekKetin]

I think when Gayfers was acquired by Dillards and eventually closed, it kind of diminished the quality of retail overall in west Mobile. Also Springdale was managed in an incompetent manner throughout the 90s and 2000s. I mean, it is strange that retailers such as Ann Taylor LOFT, Coldwater Creek and J. Jill are located in a banal strip mall instead of a healthy, rejuvenated regional center.

[Electrical Porpoise]

Originally Posted by NitekKetin

I think when Gayfers was acquired by Dillards and eventually closed, it kind of diminished the quality of retail overall in west Mobile. Also Springdale was managed in an incompetent manner throughout the 90s and 2000s. I mean, it is strange that retailers such as Ann Taylor LOFT, Coldwater Creek and J. Jill are located in a banal strip mall instead of a healthy, rejuvenated regional center.

I think the fact that they have 17 foot lockers in there supports your inept management theory perfectly.

[10101000]

Originally Posted by NitekKetin

I spoke with Alex Pate, one of the developers of Legacy Village, and he said that one of reasons that chains such as Anthropologie, Coach and Banana Republic haven't leased space in South Alabama lifestyle centers is because they're not really performing all that well in Alabama in general. Secondly, these higher end retailers like to concentrate on larger, stronger markets before committing to space in Mobile or Baldwin Counties.

Well you are kind of correct about South Alabama not performing well, however, this is not all correct as of 01/01/2008.The rent was so high at one point at Eastern Shore Centre that retailers could not afford to stay. They had to lower the rent to a more reasonable price so that retailers would stay. I believe that The MGHerring Group did not market it very well, and people were not use to a life style centre. Eastern Shore Centre has some interesting info about Apple coming not for sure when. I found that on Apples web site a while back, and of course Apple is opening a store here and they commented that they want Mobile. I am not for sure where they are going to go. Secondly, one of my friends manages a store in Bel-Air and stated that they are looking to move Target out and buy the space for more retail. They also explained that someone is looking to develop a new retail center in North Mobile, but was not for sure when are how, or even if it would be North Mobile; I think the company is Simmon, only because of the race track. I know that Macy's is coming in Mobile because the manager here in Baton Rouge said they were expanding 12-10 stores a year, but probably not until 2009 or 2010 in Mobile. LaSalle, the manager of Bel-Air knows they need to do something soon. They have the exact amount of square footage as Mall Of Louisiana, 1.3 million. Hard to believe that it is not enough. Also, mobile has had plenty of opportunity to attract these types of retailers before, but certain people did not want it to change. Since Mobile is expanding now, I know that they will soon see an influx of new retailers in the city limits. It just takes time, Susan Daniels head of down town enterprises has talked to me about a demographic that needed to be increased down town before they open new retail in downtown.

[SouthSky]

Originally Posted by timothyncrystal

LaSalle, the manager of Bel-Air knows they need to do something soon. They have the exact amount of square footage as Mall Of Louisiana, 1.3 million. Hard to believe that it is not enough. Also, mobile has had plenty of opportunity to attract these types of retailers before, but certain people did not want it to change.

The main difference between the Mall of Louisiana and Bel-Air (besides tenants) is the aesthetics. The Mall of Louisiana is much more pleasing on the eyes and (for example) the food court is quite large.

I think this will all change in the years to come with the infusion of money into the city proper and proper management.

[nimsjus]

I have said it before here, but I think Bel Air needs to be converted into something similar to Brookwood Mall in Bham. The streetscape dela they have there is pretty cool and features some nice restaurant choices. They also have a McCormick and Schmick's and Macys there. I think it could be a really cool area to do a streetscape thing. There are lots of empty parking lots for redevelopment and they could proabably incorporate the two relatively tall buildings in as well (Regions/Marriot) to add a legitimate feel to the fake urban streetscapes. It might breathe some life into those two buildings as well.

[Alxx611]

Springdale mall has been dying for years, and has slowly evolved from a mall to merely a large shopping center with a larger than needed parking lot.

While Bel-Air mall seems to thrive for the most part, there are still many aspects of it that seem outdated, and has long been in need of a food court, and perhaps even some expansion and more diverse stores. I'm glad they removed that smelly old carpet, with tiles. it makes it feel more like a mall.

[NitekKetin]

I think Target, JC Penney and possibly Sears might eventually exit Bel Air Mall for that long gestating power center development located adjacent to Hank Aaron Stadium known as McGowin Park. This development is purported to sprawl over 60 acres.

*If* those anchors leave the mall, then Bel Air has approximately 500K square feet of retail space in its two wings to re-work into various lifestyle components and entertainment venues.

Target Possibly Moving:
http://www.al.com/business/press-reg...390.xml&coll=3

[Mattmc]

I wish Bel air would continue to thrive .... I hate nothing more than a dead mall . There use to be a food court behind J C pennys , and Parisiennes ( sp ) but they took it out for some unknown reason .
I wish I could find some pics of the mall from the 70s .

Here is an ariel view of Bel-air

[IMG][/IMG]

[bayou15]

Originally Posted by bayou15

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&...,0.002052&z=19


Looked into this one. This half of block shown on link, according to last sundays Mobile Press, is the land that the developer of the Downtown Hampton bought. Maybe something to look into. hmmm.....................aka..(parking lot on Royal and st louis, and the building,which is a old bank, located St.louis @st. joseph

HMMM!!!!!!!

[CottonCity251]

Originally Posted by bayou15

HMMM!!!!!!!

What's the breaking news bayou15?

[MobileLSUboy2005]

clearly that pic of the mall is at xmas time... the parking lot is only full one time a year! haha

I love how the Mall of Louisiana is set up - Two stories and with a real food court and stuff... i mean, sometimes i'll just go to the mall to get some fast food or something - you don't do that at Bel Air...

Also, they are adding on to the Mall of LA with an outdoor lifestyle center with higher-end stores and junk in the front of the mall in the parking lot... Its a shame Mobile hasnt been able to pick up the same business. Maybe some day... sooner than later preferably!

[Del]

If Eastern Shore Centre is an example of this streetscape model, I wish somebody would explain to me what the big attraction is. Every time I go over there, it's in and out of the car the whole time. I'm a pretty good walker but I don't see the appeal in maneuvering my weary self, weather permitting, across acres of parking lot and around big blank sides of stores to get to the next thing, all the while dodging the ladies in their SUVs. And when you are outside, they're blaring music at you from those outdoor speakers---it's like what they use to keep the loiterers away from the Blockbuster parking lot.

The last restaurant I ate in over there, California Dreaming I think it was, was such a highly-refined version of the chain genre that I kept expecting to hear our flight being called-- it was like something in an airport. There's the much-vaunted Williams Sonoma/PB and a few others, but otherwise the store lineup is pretty unexciting. Maybe it's just me, but I find every excursion over there to be enervating rather than "ooh, let's go in this exciting store and shop a little more."

A friend told me that the concept is supposed to duplicate the experience of shopping in a village street. Well, a couple of benches and a fountain do not Old Town make. It's almost like they've thrown out the advantages of both shopping environments (Mall: controlled climate, park once; Village: density, "fun" atmosphere, unique shops) and contented themselves with the worst instead.

If I'm being an idiot and this is the most successful development in South Alabama history, I apologize in advance.

[nimsjus]

Originally Posted by Del

If Eastern Shore Centre is an example of this streetscape model, I wish somebody would explain to me what the big attraction is. Every time I go over there, it's in and out of the car the whole time. I'm a pretty good walker but I don't see the appeal in maneuvering my weary self, weather permitting, across acres of parking lot and around big blank sides of stores to get to the next thing, all the while dodging the ladies in their SUVs. And when you are outside, they're blaring music at you from those outdoor speakers---it's like what they use to keep the loiterers away from the Blockbuster parking lot.

The last restaurant I ate in over there, California Dreaming I think it was, was such a highly-refined version of the chain genre that I kept expecting to hear our flight being called-- it was like something in an airport. There's the much-vaunted Williams Sonoma/PB and a few others, but otherwise the store lineup is pretty unexciting. Maybe it's just me, but I find every excursion over there to be enervating rather than "ooh, let's go in this exciting store and shop a little more."

A friend told me that the concept is supposed to duplicate the experience of shopping in a village street. Well, a couple of benches and a fountain do not Old Town make. It's almost like they've thrown out the advantages of both shopping environments (Mall: controlled climate, park once; Village: density, "fun" atmosphere, unique shops) and contented themselves with the worst instead.

If I'm being an idiot and this is the most successful development in South Alabama history, I apologize in advance.

Eastern Shore Centre is not excatly the kind of thing I am talking about. Im not a big fan of those types of sprawling developments. Brookwood mall is an older mall that was given a shot in the arm with some redevelopment. It is on a pretty small footprint and is two stories. It has a parking deck that is wrapped by the mall and streetscape stuff so it is out of view and eliminates the need for a big sprawling parking lot. Part of the old parking lot was converted into a small pedestrian friendly street that was lined with nice restaurants(Cocina Superior, Bria, Copper Grille, McCormick and Schmicks, etc). They took the old face of the mall and added some outdoor shopping that has entrances to the interior of the mall as well. Now they have the best of all worlds. They have recently completed a small office tower and have been mentioned as a location for a Birmingham W Hotel. All that sprung out of plain old 1970's/80's indoor shopping mall.

[pkp]

Eastern Shore Center sucks - damn near every metro area in the Southeast has a crappy lifestyle center that's the same or "better".

There is nothing more pathetic then tearing down a bunch of woods to build something that is supposed to feel like a city - why not just invest in an existing city instead if that is the feeling you are going for?

Malls, in general, suck. They are suburban creations, for the most part. This is a website about urban development, skyscrapers, etc... Lifestyle centers and sprawling mall complexes have nothing to do with that!

I want to see stores downtown - department stores, boutiques, whatever. If they need to have attractive parking decks attached - so be it. Canal Place is a pretty good example. It is a high-rise developement with no surface parking and a good streetscape. It has some pretty nice stores including a high end department store - in general, in blends in well with its urban surroundings.

Eastern Shore Center might be fine for the rubes in Baldwin or West Mobile, but I would expect folks on this site to demand more.

[Del]

I went to the Brookwood website - interesting. Esp. that some of the photos look like they could have been taken at the Eastern Shore center, but clearly there's a big difference, and it's all about what you do with the car while you're there.

And it's run by the Colonial folks! I am trying to envision a new Mobile W hotel rising out of the Bel-Air mall...perhaps to fill that vacancy when Target pulls out... but wait, Colonial doesn't run Bel-Air any more, do they?

[Del]

pkp, I am flashing on that episode of the Simpsons when Springfield gets a new mall. Somebody yells, "A Pottery Barn!" and they all run across the parking lot like lemmings...

[nimsjus]

Originally Posted by pkp

Eastern Shore Center sucks - damn near every metro area in the Southeast has a crappy lifestyle center that's the same or "better".

There is nothing more pathetic then tearing down a bunch of woods to build something that is supposed to feel like a city - why not just invest in an existing city instead if that is the feeling you are going for?

Malls, in general, suck. They are suburban creations, for the most part. This is a website about urban development, skyscrapers, etc... Lifestyle centers and sprawling mall complexes have nothing to do with that!

I want to see stores downtown - department stores, boutiques, whatever. If they need to have attractive parking decks attached - so be it. Canal Place is a pretty good example. It is a high-rise developement with no surface parking and a good streetscape. It has some pretty nice stores including a high end department store - in general, in blends in well with its urban surroundings.

Eastern Shore Center might be fine for the rubes in Baldwin or West Mobile, but I would expect folks on this site to demand more.

King St in Charleston is another awesome example. There are local and national stores/restaurants intermixed in historic structures. They have intergrated several parking decks in by wrapping them in useable reatail/offic/residential space. It is one of the better setups I have seen in person. Charleston is a very trendy city with a very trendy downtown area, which is required to make this setup work. Mobile is beginning to work toward this type of stuff in very ealry stages(coffee shops, restaraunts, the new market/home and garden store). If those things thrive, then retail will consider moving in as well.

[bayou15]

http://www.newmobileplan.com/

[SouthSky]

Originally Posted by bayou15

http://www.newmobileplan.com/

Good find there, Bayou.

I just wish they could find a better skyline picture that doesn't block out half the buildings downtown.

[bayou15]

The blue shadow on the RSA looks great. The city/county government building oaught to do the same. Looks like Jacksonville.