Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by Hatman

Very cool news.

I like that it's free. Using trolley-shaped buses sounds very gimmicky to me, but there are ways that it could be made to work - like if the stops were also made to look like little old-timey rail stations or something.
I like that it is timed to meet up with the FrontRunner. It would be even better if it ran more frequently so that it could become a real transit corridor in its own right, not just a last-mile solution for the commuter rail line, but you have to start somewhere.
And while I like how UTA is able to give credit to Proposition 1, I agree with Future Mayor, that it would be more ideal to have the stakeholders also raise the funds to pay for its operations. Give it time, and I think this will happen anyway, and this route needed to start somehow.
Overall I'm very pleased with this development. Thanks for sharing it!

I think if done right, the trolley look will be a nice feature, it will differentiate it from a regular bus and it will be more visible and potentially attract more riders simply based on that reason along. Downtown Cleveland had two free Trolleys that ran through downtown, the E-line that went through the entertainment areas, and the B-line that went through mostly business areas. They used the below Trolley buses. I ride them daily.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by i-215

It'll never happen, but I'd love to see it go subgrade like trains do in Reno.

This picture really illustrates why the Reno trench project cost so much money. You can see that the trench wall goes right up against the foundations and walls of the adjacent buildings, which are heavy and required a lot of structural reinforcement within the walls of the trench. Salt Lake City would not have that problem on 5th west because the street is so wide. The trench walls would be holding back maybe a lane of traffic for each direction, maybe a bike lane, and a sidewalk. Very little consideration would need to be given to the buildings farther back.
Another thing could be done to justify the trench idea too. If in addition to using the old Rio Grande and UP depots, what if a 3rd FrontRunner station were placed on 9th south? Yes, 3 stations seems a little excessive, but if each stop were limited to just a minute or two - as compared to the 5 minutes the trains currently stop at North Temple and SLC, it may add up to be less time overall. Just a thought.

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I think if done right, the trolley look will be a nice feature, it will differentiate it from a regular bus and it will be more visible and potentially attract more riders simply based on that reason along. Downtown Cleveland had two free Trolleys that ran through downtown, the E-line that went through the entertainment areas, and the B-line that went through mostly business areas. They used the below Trolley buses. I ride them daily.

If the new trolley buses look anything like that, I'll be a happy hatman. But I fear lest we get something terrible, like... I hate to even post a picture here, but we must be brave...:


Ugh! Those arched windows! The angled front! That fake cow-catcher ornament on the front! I can't even...

[ImaJem]

Well, a while ago uta tested this design:

http://rideuta.com/news/2016/08/Midtown-Trolley
Thoughts?

[Hatman]

Fine. Whatever. It isn't actively offensive, but it isn't something I would be proud to ride in either. I guess this is the price you pay for getting a free ride.

EDIT: But what if I have a bike? Where does it go? That useless cowcatcher ornament gets in the way of a proper bike rack! This is classic backwards function-follows-form, meaning BAD design.

There must be something here I'm not getting. Why go through all the extra cost and effort to make a bus look like something it isn't? Are people really that easily swayed? "Ooh, looky there! I was gonna drive my big diesel truck ta the mall, but now I wanna ride the fake trolley!"

Honestly, could someone help me out?

[Future Mayor]

It simply is to differentiate it from a regular bus, easily knowing where it goes and what it serves, rather than having to know route numbers, people see buses departing an arriving at the Mall, Main St Layton and the Front Runner Stations all the time. When people see the "trolley" at those same locations they will realize that it's the same Trolley as the other locations and it will click, with many, that it's now an option.

It was tested vehicles, it doesn't mean they won't put a bike rack on as most buses in UTA's fleet do. If you jump to conclusions on the test vehicles then we will have vehicles that say Greater Cleveland and RTA on them.

[Hatman]

Yeah, sure. Branded buses. I'm familiar with the concept. You don't need to know the route number, and you don't need to look too closely at all the other standardized buses if you know that the bus with the fancy paint scheme is the free shuttle. It works great.

The thought with the trolley-bus being, I'm assuming, that people don't notice buses that are just painted different. To catch people's attention you need to turn your bus into a parade float.
So why an old-fashioned trolley? If the purpose is make your branded bus as eye-catching as possible, why not dress it up like something awesome, that people actually want to ride in?







Yeah, those last ones are totally sarcastic, but I stand by my point. Why a trolley, which doesn't really stand out all that much, and not something more eye-catching?

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

It simply is to differentiate it from a regular bus, easily knowing where it goes and what it serves, rather than having to know route numbers, people see buses departing an arriving at the Mall, Main St Layton and the Front Runner Stations all the time. When people see the "trolley" at those same locations they will realize that it's the same Trolley as the other locations and it will click, with many, that it's now an option.

It was tested vehicles, it doesn't mean they won't put a bike rack on as most buses in UTA's fleet do. If you jump to conclusions on the test vehicles then we will have vehicles that say Greater Cleveland and RTA on them.

I'd rather see some distinctive detailing on a regular bus than a fake, tacky trolley look. Give it a unique name and paint the name of the service in large letters on the side or something.

[Hatman]

I noticed something new on TRAX this morning. Maybe it's new, maybe I'm just inattentive. It's a new version of the UTA TRAX map:

I like it. Except you have to know which direction you're going, as all the maps on the west side of every car are pointed south. But since the TRAX cars sometimes get turned around, I guess it has to be done this way. I like how it makes everything look so dense; we really have a pretty fantastic little rail system here, and new map configurations like this one that 'rephrase' the way you visualize it can really help us appreciate what we would otherwise take for granted. Well done UTA.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by Hatman

I noticed something new on TRAX this morning. Maybe it's new, maybe I'm just inattentive. It's a new version of the UTA TRAX map:

I like it. Except you have to know which direction you're going, as all the maps on the west side of every car are pointed south. But since the TRAX cars sometimes get turned around, I guess it has to be done this way. I like how it makes everything look so dense; we really have a pretty fantastic little rail system here, and new map configurations like this one that 'rephrase' the way you visualize it can really help us appreciate what we would otherwise take for granted. Well done UTA.

The green line would be hard to make sense of if you weren't already familiar with the system. Makes it look like the airport is in Farmington.

[ImaJem]

Finally! UTA said they were gonna do this in June.

They said they were going to do one for Frontrunner also.
I hope they do it like this (my design I made last month):


Edit: hmm, the color changed a little...

[Hatman]

Originally Posted by ImaJem

Finally! UTA said they were gonna do this in June.
They said they were going to do one for Frontrunner also.
I hope they do it like this (my design I made last month):

Humm? Insider knowledge, your design, and a photo from the inside of the Jordan River Maintenance building?

Whatever you do for your living, I'm very happy you participate in the forum.

I like the design for the FrontRunner map too. I especially like how it makes a distinction between the regular service and the trains to Pleasant View. The other maps don't do that.

[ImaJem]

I don't work for UTA, they announced this on twitter back in june. I just copied the image. I graduated High School in may and I don't have a job. I basically just have a lot of free time! I'm hoping to take an urban planning course with a focus in public transit, but am unsure of where to start. As you can tell, I know some graphic design also! I believe public transit is very important. And since I'm disabled, I rely on transit (I don't ride the train right now though since I'm home a lot).
It frustrates me how a lot of people in utah don't care much about transit and see it only as a waste of taxpayer money, but yet say nothing of a $1billion+ freeway expansion!
Anyway, I applaud any effort to improve transit--from new maps to BRT!

(I wish UTA would pay me...)

[ImaJem]

I just updated my map (took about 40 min)
Note: this is not official in any way. This is a result of an obsession/hobby (obsession mostly!)

One for the east side of the train:


One for the west side of the train:

If they add announcements (when it reaches a station) that make it clear which direction the train is going, that should help.
For those wondering how I made this, I just opened the FR schedule in adobe illustrator and copied the elements I wanted into a new .ai file. The labels for TRAX transfers are based on what the London Underground map uses (brown for Bakerloo, orange for Overground, etc)

[TonyAnderson]

Looks like they're doing a number of workships for the 'Foothill Corridor'. - http://www.foothilldrive.org/workshop-2/

[Liberty Wellsian]

An Idea

Parleys, Red Butte, and Immigration creeks, flow into a conduit that runs under 1300 S. Why not make our city a little more interesting by daylighting that water where feasible. Why not tap into the conduit and allow the creek to run around the Ballpark Trax station? I have provided a professional rendering of what that may look like below.

[ImaJem]

^^
I like that idea! I thought it was cool when they did this in City Creek. I'm not sure why they buried them in the first place. To reduce flooding maybe?

On an unrelated note, I made significant changes to my map over the weekend (I know, it wasn't a very exciting Labor Day weekend!)
I'm hoping to send it to UTA, but I want to hear what you guys think first.

This is a photo of UTA's FrontRunner map submitted to Transit Maps by Mike Christensen:


Mike also writes:

The Utah Transit Authority (UTA) recently added strip maps to its FrontRunner commuter rail trains. At first glance, the maps looked adequate to me. But after a few moments of thought, I have the following critique. First off, the N and S denoting north and south at the end of the route is a bit confusing. However, the biggest criticism I have is the lost opportunity to show connecting bus routes at FrontRunner stations.

UTA has been trying to find ways to encourage riders to make greater use of its bus system, and I feel that UTA really missed out on an opportunity to do so using the strip map. The strip map does show the three stations featuring transfers to UTA’s three TRAX light rail lines, but the map completely fails to specify which TRAX lines can be transferred to. Additionally, the strip map could have also highlighted non-UTA connections, such as Amtrak at Salt Lake Central and Provo and Greyhound at Salt Lake Central and Ogden, and should have highlighted the connection to the Salt Lake City International Airport via the TRAX Green Line at North Temple.

He then posted an image of a quick mock up showing his idea:


So I was curious to see how including bus routes would work, and came up with this:



My map has what was mentioned: TRAX connections, bus connections, and Greyhound (but not Amtrak, If you look at Salt Lake Central on my map you'll see why) I took out the the lines and changed the north and south pointers. The labels for TRAX and Greyhound are based off of what the London Underground uses on their maps for transfers. I also thought It would be important to take out the legend completely, so I designed the map so it wouldn't need it. Fonts used are Whitney Medium and Whitney Book.

Anyway, please tell me what you like/don't like about my map. Do the bus routes add too much clutter? Is it worth replacing the maps EVERY change day to include them?

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by ImaJem

^^
I like that idea! I thought it was cool when they did this in City Creek. I'm not sure why they buried them in the first place. To reduce flooding maybe?

On an unrelated note, I made significant changes to my map over the weekend (I know, it wasn't a very exciting Labor Day weekend!)
I'm hoping to send it to UTA, but I want to hear what you guys think first.

This is a photo of UTA's FrontRunner map submitted to Transit Maps by Mike Christensen:


Mike also writes:


He then posted an image of a quick mock up showing his idea:


So I was curious to see how including bus routes would work, and came up with this:



My map has what was mentioned: TRAX connections, bus connections, and Greyhound (but not Amtrak, If you look at Salt Lake Central on my map you'll see why) I took out the the lines and changed the north and south pointers. The labels for TRAX and Greyhound are based off of what the London Underground uses on their maps for transfers. I also thought It would be important to take out the legend completely, so I designed the map so it wouldn't need it. Fonts used are Whitney Medium and Whitney Book.

Anyway, please tell me what you like/don't like about my map. Do the bus routes add too much clutter? Is it worth replacing the maps EVERY change day to include them?

IIRC the funny thing about City Creek is that the rough the mall doesn't come from or return to City Creek. It comes from the Salt Lake aqueduct which gets its water from Deer Creek reservoir.

As far as your map a simple bus legend at one end would probably be helpful.

Example:
2 University via 200S
2x University Express
3 3rd Avenue
6 6th Avenue
etc

[Future Mayor]

Yes it gets it's water from there, but it is meant as a historic re-creation of the south fork of City Creek.

As for the map, I think it's important to keep Amtrak on there. It's still a vital component of national travel.

[ImaJem]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Yes it gets it's water from there, but it is meant as a historic re-creation of the south fork of City Creek.

As for the map, I think it's important to keep Amtrak on there. It's still a vital component of national travel.

I agree. I will try to fiddle with my amtrak label, see if I can make it work better than it did. I had amtrak on before, but it didn't seem to work under SLCentral.

As far as your map a simple bus legend at one end would probably be helpful.

Example:
2 University via 200S
2x University Express
3 3rd Avenue
6 6th Avenue
etc

I thought about a key for bus routes, but was unsure where to put it. Do you mean for all of the stations or just SLC?