NEW YORK | Port Authority Bus Terminal Replacement

[BStyles]

Originally Posted by Gantz

Penn and Grand Central actually service New Yorkers, we don't mind paying for those.

Penn Station is owned and operated primarily by Amtrak, and serves Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, which brings commuters in from across the northeast. New York just so happens to be one of its stops, and NJ Transit/LIRR its secondary and tertiary tenants. To assume that a bus terminal, which has more than just NJ Transit as its tenant, does any less is an opinion.

What they need to include in this plan to make it more feasible is a special partition for private companies, such as Megabus and Sprinterbus, which congest side streets around the area for pickup/drop-off. That ought to entice more funding.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by antinimby

How so?

So many people live in NJ expressly because of access to NYC metro employment centers. If the PABT isn't rebuilt what are those people going to do? Just quit their jobs?

[artspook]

rip that ugly green grid
off those gorgeous truss Xs . .
and just give us more of that beauty . .
of structural strength . .

[antinimby]

Originally Posted by k1052

So many people live in NJ expressly because of access to NYC metro employment centers. If the PABT isn't rebuilt what are those people going to do? Just quit their jobs?

If they can't get to their jobs by mass transport then they'll be forced to drive. But driving into Manhattan everyday to a job is not feasible. It then makes it tough to work in Manhattan while living in the far off suburbs.

If a job becomes too difficult to maintain--and let's face it, if your commute becomes too impossible, then keeping the job is difficult--then yes, people will leave the job and look elsewhere.

Then it affects the NYC employers. We see constantly companies relocating because they want to accommodate their workforce.

If NYC becomes too difficult to attract and maintain a workforce, companies leave. So yes, NYC is very much a beneficiary of the suburban worker as much as the suburban worker is reliant on NYC. It's a symbiotic relationship.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by BStyles

Penn Station is owned and operated primarily by Amtrak, and serves Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, which brings commuters in from across the northeast. New York just so happens to be one of its stops, and NJ Transit/LIRR its secondary and tertiary tenants. To assume that a bus terminal, which has more than just NJ Transit as its tenant, does any less is an opinion.

What they need to include in this plan to make it more feasible is a special partition for private companies, such as Megabus and Sprinterbus, which congest side streets around the area for pickup/drop-off. That ought to entice more funding.

As you probably know, while the underground station is owned by Amtrak, the above ground Madison Square Garden is not--it is owned by a private, publicly traded corporation. And this complex ownership is apparently proving a major complication in plans to redevelop the station.

[NYguy]

https://therealdeal.com/2017/02/14/c...-bus-terminal/

Cuomo, de Blasio accused of deliberately delaying bus terminal
NJ lawmakers want commissioners to block Port Authority’s proposed capital plan

February 14, 2017
Miriam Hall

Lawmakers from the Garden State are accusing New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio of working to intentionally slow down the construction of the proposed new Manhattan bus terminal.

Speaking at a press conference in Trenton on Monday, New Jersey Senate President Steve Sweeney and several other Democrats said their New York peers are “playing games,” Politico reported. They are now urging commissioners from New Jersey to block the adoption of the agency’s proposed capital plan this Thursday, unless the board signs off on putting $70 million towards design and planning of the terminal.

“We’re here today to continue to call on New York to stop messing around and stop jerking us around, to move forward quickly with the study,” said Sweeney, according to the publication. He was supported by Bergen County state senators Bob Gordon and Paul Sarlo. Sweeney said he will request a meeting with de Blasio’s office to discuss the issue.

Earlier this month, New York City elected officials — including Deputy Mayor Anthony Shorris — wrote letters to the authority requesting a “tiered” environmental review that would allow the agency to consider alternatives to the terminal. Gordon said he believes Cuomo is behind the letters, but a spokesperson for the governor said Gordon is peddling a “totally fabricated, paranoid conspiracy theory.”

The agency has long been plagued by infighting between appointees from New York and New Jersey. In November, the vice chair of the Port Authority Steven Cohen resigned from his position amid ongoing disagreements about the future of the bus terminal. Last week, Scott Rechler, CEO of RXR Realty and former Port Authority vice chair, wondered aloud if breaking up the authority could be a possible solution to the agency’s problems.

[BStyles]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

As you probably know, while the underground station is owned by Amtrak, the above ground Madison Square Garden is not--it is owned by a private, publicly traded corporation. And this complex ownership is apparently proving a major complication in plans to redevelop the station.

Yes, the Dolans. They aren't interested in moving the Garden, but the city gave them 10 years to start searching for other sites. That was three years ago.

Something tells me that when their time has lapsed they'll find some other way of swindling a few more years into their hold over the site.

[NYguy]

http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/..._extensio.html

Port Authority approves plan to build bus terminal, PATH extension


February 16, 2017
Larry Higgs

The Port Authority unanimously approved a $32 billion capital plan Thursday after hours of public hearings over several months, more than 400 emailed comments, and last-minute arguments over funding a PATH extension to Newark Airport and building a rail line to LaGuardia Airport.

The spending plan includes $3.5 billion toward a new Port Authority Bus Terminal, a project which had been omitted from the original plan. Officials hope to have a new bus terminal built by 2029 or 2030.

"This is what we've been fighting for," said State Senator Loretta Weinberg, D-Bergen, who spearheaded a campaign to improve the existing terminal and plan for its replacement after hearing commuter complaints about conditions there.

"This plan is far from perfect, it is a political compromise, it is not the plan that would be drawn up by transportation experts, it is just the beginning," said State Senator Robert Gordon, D-Bergen.

But residents who live next to the bus terminal expressed their own concerns about its replacement.

"We already know that without the use of eminent domain, such a building won't satisfy the demand and other means of transit must be studied," said Christine Berthet, a member of Community Board 4 transportation committee. "Before bids are issued Community Board 4 and New York and New Jersey stakeholders should review them and comment."

Among the more controversial spending approved in the plan was $1.7 billion to extend the PATH rail system to Newark Airport and $1.5 billion to build an AirTrain rail line between LaGuardia Airport and a subway line at Willet's Point.

The plan also commits $2.7 billion to pay debt from the Gateway Project which will build two new Hudson River rail tunnels and follow with other improvements on the Northeast Corridor line. An environmental study for the tunnels is currently underway.

[Crawford]

It's absurd, but the $3.5 billion for the new terminal won't even cover construction. It will be for planning and land acquisition, mostly.

The land acquisition will have a monumental price tag. Can you imagine being the lone holdout tenement? For a $10 billion project, a $100 million buyout is nothing.

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It's absurd, but the $3.5 billion for the new terminal won't even cover construction. It will be for planning and land acquisition, mostly.

The land acquisition will have a monumental price tag. Can you imagine being the lone holdout tenement? For a $10 billion project, a $100 million buyout is nothing.

Yeah, they will be trying to use eminent domain in Manhattan... to build a low-value bus terminal. Good luck with that. I am guessing the price tag would triple by 2029 timeframe. Building a surface parking lot for buses on the most valuable land in the world... genius use of taxpayer money.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Gantz

Yeah, they will be trying to use eminent domain in Manhattan... to build a low-value bus terminal. Good luck with that. I am guessing the price tag would triple by 2029 timeframe. Building a surface parking lot for buses on the most valuable land in the world... genius use of taxpayer money.

While I don't like the cost, it's an absolutely necessary project. How else are these many hundreds of thousands of commuters and intercity travelers going to access Manhattan?

And it isn't a "surface parking lot for buses"; it's a giant bus terminal. Obviously it will be a vertical, tightly constrained complex.

[k1052]

It will be magnificent when it's done in 2045 at double the cost.

[C.]

Kinda crazy that we're talking about $10 to $15 billion for a facility that handles an average of 230,000 passengers every weekday when PATH is forced to fight for scraps when it handles 270,000 passengers. A whole lot of subway could be built for $10 to $15 billion, along with TOD development potential. Just saying....

[C.]

There really needs to be two facilities at this point. One near the current spot and one in New Jersey where passengers can be shuttled in by train. The Lincoln Tunnel helix is way backed up during peak periods and the situation is only going to get worse. A transfer to a train into Manhattan may be a faster commute for a lot of people, even with a dreaded transfer.

[scalziand]

It is incredible the constant stream of buses going up the ramps during rush hour.

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[TowerDude]

I don't see what's wrong with the existing building ... just clean it up and keep operating it ...

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by TowerDude

I don't see what's wrong with the existing building ... just clean it up and keep operating it ...

I bet you don't see anything wrong with end-stage AIDS patients, either.

[NYguy]

^ When people make statements like that (particularly when they have single digit posts), just roll right over it. Troll bait.

Originally Posted by CIA

Kinda crazy that we're talking about $10 to $15 billion for a facility that handles an average of 230,000 passengers every weekday when PATH is forced to fight for scraps when it handles 270,000 passengers. A whole lot of subway could be built for $10 to $15 billion, along with TOD development potential. Just saying....

The difference between PATH and the buses is that the buses reach far more places than PATH ever could. Big difference. Even if you expanded PATH to multiple locations, people would still have to use buses to reach them. It shouldn't be an issue of pushing one against the other. I think they've splurged enough on the PATH station at the WTC. It's time Penn Station and the bus terminal got some love.

[BBMW]

Does the term "structural insufficiency" mean anything to you?

And, in point of fact, there's no reason all those buses should be coming into Manhattan anyway. Keep 'em in Jersey, where they belong, and bring the riders in on rail.

Then get rid of the ugly, useless eyesore of a bus station, and redevelop that whole area of Midtown. It wold be a huge, and hugely positive, transformation.

Originally Posted by TowerDude

I don't see what's wrong with the existing building ... just clean it up and keep operating it ...

[BBMW]

You're half right.

Originally Posted by CIA

There really needs to be two facilities at this point. One near the current spot and one in New Jersey where passengers can be shuttled in by train. The Lincoln Tunnel helix is way backed up during peak periods and the situation is only going to get worse. A transfer to a train into Manhattan may be a faster commute for a lot of people, even with a dreaded transfer.