Should Canada Be Preparing for a Destabilized USA?

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

I'm talking nowadays, if someone from Australia decides to move in Canada, it's the same thing as moving from Canada to the US. they won't see you as an immigrant.

That's a personal viewpoint.

I'm not even sure what that means.

If the person is black and from the Uk does it matter?

What about people from jamaica?

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am somewhat pro-immigration but I pretty much share this view of Canada as well.

I'd be pro immigration if it'd be something along the lines of lets fill out the country with canadians.

But instead it's lets have immigration so we can grow our gdp, use immigrants to replace our internal failures, placate the median income by giving them someone to step over, and did I mention widen the gap between rich and areas of the country.

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't think of this as a special neutral area where people from anywhere else on earth can come as they please, and I don't have a laissez-faire or Darwinian attitude toward the founding cultures of Canada. My vision matches the de facto legal arrangement here more than the "we're a nation of immigrants" narrative I usually hear, which I think tends to be naive. Canada has a shrewd immigration policy that a lot of Canadians don't appreciate. Immigration has worked well here because of careful regulation.

Originally Posted by someone123

There is a bit of a Western-Eastern gulf in this area. In Vancouver, many people have shallow roots and a lot of people could move back somewhere else if things don't go well here. A lot of people think of Vancouver as a kind of blank slate that is only interesting because of Asian influence. I don't have much of an opinion on that (I do think Asian immigration has made Vancouver much more interesting and important than it otherwise would have been), but that is not the standard view east of the Ontario border.

I've gotten that vibe in toronto and it's the strangest thing to me.

As hobby historian you really have to look at what happens when people don't really believe in the realness of their state.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Stryker

That's a personal viewpoint.

I'm not even sure what that means.

If the person is black and from the Uk does it matter?

What about people from jamaica?

from a prosperous country.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

from a prosperous country.

Most countries nowadays are prosperous in the major cities. It's the slums and countrysides that are not gaining much ground.

There are more prosperous lifestyles being lived outside of north-america/europe than inside of it.

It just so happens that they have way more poor people.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am somewhat pro-immigration but I pretty much share this view of Canada as well.

I don't think of this as a special neutral area where people from anywhere else on earth can come as they please, and I don't have a laissez-faire or Darwinian attitude toward the founding cultures of Canada. My vision matches the de facto legal arrangement here more than the "we're a nation of immigrants" narrative I usually hear, which I think tends to be naive. Canada has a shrewd immigration policy that a lot of Canadians don't appreciate. Immigration has worked well here because of careful regulation.

There is a bit of a Western-Eastern gulf in this area. In Vancouver, many people have shallow roots and a lot of people could move back somewhere else if things don't go well here. A lot of people think of Vancouver as a kind of blank slate that is only interesting because of Asian influence. I don't have much of an opinion on that (I do think Asian immigration has made Vancouver much more interesting and important than it otherwise would have been), but that is not the standard view east of the Ontario border.

I definitely agree with you and Stryker on this one, but one question I often ask myself is: is it really a big deal?

Is it a sword of Damocles over our heads that will sooner or later come slashing down on us, or are we just thinking too much?

[Bcasey25raptor]

Kinda hard for me to take Canadian culture or Canadian identity seriously when this country seriously was founded by brits to prevent US manifest destiny over it's trading area.

This country prides itself too much on how it is not the US than we have failed to realize we are Americans and have essentially the same outlook and culture as the very people we constantly have to tell ourselves we are different from.

On Immigration? I could care less how many people we let into this country or where they go, I have literally no care in the world about Canadian culture.

Where I draw the line is on human rights, we should NOT be letting people in who openly are against human rights be it gay rights, religious rights, or womens rights among others, furthermore more regulations MUST be in place to prevent what has happened to Vancouver's housing market from happening elsewhere.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Kinda hard for me to take Canadian culture or Canadian identity seriously when this country seriously was founded by brits to prevent US manifest destiny over it's trading area.

This country prides itself too much on how it is not the US than we have failed to realize we are Americans and have essentially the same outlook and culture as the very people we constantly have to tell ourselves we are different from.

On Immigration? I could care less how many people we let into this country or where they go, I have literally no care in the world about Canadian culture.

Where I draw the line is on human rights, we should NOT be letting people in who openly are against human rights be it gay rights, religious rights, or womens rights among others, furthermore more regulations MUST be in place to prevent what has happened to Vancouver's housing market from happening elsewhere.

Quebec was not founded by the Brits.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Quebec was not founded by the Brits.

Quebec and maybe Newfoundland are the only provinces in Canada with anything even close to a unique identity.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

So moving from middle-class Dortmund or Lyon to Edmonton or Surrey can often be deceptively difficult.

I have a friend who moved from Southwestern Germany to Edmonton. He prefers North American living to Germany. He had virtually no trouble moving to Alberta and wants to stay.

But I do know some Germans who moved to Northern Ontario from large German cities and were in smaller more isolated towns and found that to be difficult. But the same goes for many Canadians who do that. There are so many factors and not all people are the same.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Quebec and maybe Newfoundland are the only provinces in Canada with anything even close to a unique identity.

Those two provinces are definitely distinct societies within North America. And the Inuit and First Nations people are distinct as well.

One thing I find interesting is that while the U.S. is likely going to be having issues with unity, Canada seems to be more united than it ever has been in a long time. There is more respect about our differences as well and less blaming going on. This will help our economy and evidence of that is already happening in Quebec. I'm pretty sure our First Nations will play a large role in future growth, especially among the younger generation.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Quebec and maybe Newfoundland are the only provinces in Canada with anything even close to a unique identity.

Is it more unique to be founded by France?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Is it more unique to be founded by France?

If the goal is to distinguish oneself from a highly proximate behemoth that was founded by the British, then the answer is definitely yes.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I definitely agree with you and Stryker on this one, but one question I often ask myself is: is it really a big deal?

Is it a sword of Damocles over our heads that will sooner or later come slashing down on us, or are we just thinking too much?

Eh wha?

I'm autistic and I'll always be autistic first.

The left is far more of a threat to people with aspergers in my opinion.

The right have always been brutal and uncaring to those on the spectrum, but the left are much more sinister in their behaviour.

One of my biggest problems with immigration is that it puts people with unlucky geography over people with unlucky genetics.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If the goal is to distinguish oneself from a highly proximate behemoth that was founded by the British, then the answer is definitely yes.

Very much agreed I think French should be our official language full stop.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Eh wha?

I'm autistic and I'll always be autistic first.

The left is far more of a threat to people with aspergers in my opinion.

The right have always been brutal and uncaring to those on the spectrum, but the left are much more sinister in their behaviour.

One of my biggest problems with immigration is that it puts people with unlucky geography over people with unlucky genetics.

I am not sure of what you read into my post.

The only line here that seems related to what I wrote is the last one - which I acknowledge is a really good point.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This is a very good point. Anti-immigrant populism takes a very different form in Europe than it does in the USA. A lot of people in North America fail to realize that.

Arguably, Kellie Leitch's views on immigration actually fit the European model more. When she talks of using her "values test" and "face to face screening" to restrict immigration, she's talking about restricting immigrants with sexist and homophobic views.

Personally, I don't support that model. I think it's rather pointless because even if new immigrants hold these views, their kids adapt to our social norms anyway as children learn from their peers more their parents, and restrictions on immigration harm our economic competitiveness. But I can understand where they're coming from and can sympathize with it. With US Republican-style opposition to immigration, though, it's a whole different ballgame. That's rooted in not much more than racism.

It's also pointless because the less well-intended can simply lie through their teeth. As such, the "values test" is simply a placebo to make some people feel better.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Those two provinces are definitely distinct societies within North America. And the Inuit and First Nations people are distinct as well.

One thing I find interesting is that while the U.S. is likely going to be having issues with unity, Canada seems to be more united than it ever has been in a long time. There is more respect about our differences as well and less blaming going on. This will help our economy and evidence of that is already happening in Quebec. I'm pretty sure our First Nations will play a large role in future growth, especially among the younger generation.

Are we more united or have we simply found a comfortable space to mostly stay out of each other's hair? This type of arrangement is sometimes referred to in French as "le vivre ensemble".

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not sure of what you read into my post.

The only line here that seems related to what I wrote is the last one - which I acknowledge is a really good point.

I object to blank slate type immigration because it has a tendency to ignore the people already here, and undermines the question of whether or not we even need to bother helping those people.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

I object to blank slate type immigration because it has a tendency to ignore the people already here, and undermines the question of whether or not we even need to bother helping those people.

Aboriginal Canadians say hi!

[lio45]

This thread seems to be the right place to answer Stryker's question.

Yes, you're correct, the Québécois generally do have a lot of respect for the right of peoples to self-determination.

So, it shouldn't be a surprise that you won't see much outrage or complaints here about, for example,

- The Americans' right to democratically elect Trump;
- The French's right to democratically elect Le Pen;
- The Brits' right to democratically leave the EU;
- The Scots'/Catalans' right to democratically secede;
- The Crimeans' right to democratically vote to join Russia;
- etc.

Generally, that is regarded as their own business. We (generally speaking again) don't want others to be the ones in charge for us, so, returning the favor, we'll let others in charge of choosing what they want for themselves.