Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Empire]

As much as I hate to say it, maybe we put 15,000 seats at SMU and get a real stadium a few years down the road. Can 5,000 temp seats be added to this site if it had 15,000 seats and can 15,000 fit there period?

[-Harlington-]

Originally Posted by Empire

As much as I hate to say it, maybe we put 15,000 seats at SMU and get a real stadium a few years down the road. Can 5,000 temp seats be added to this site if it had 15,000 seats and can 15,000 fit there period?

I remember it look pretty packed at 11,000 during touchdown Atlantic a few years back so im not sure how much more you could add/make permanent

The tower really makes it difficult to expand, if that can be relocated it would really help as far as expansion is concerned

whether this stadium goes to Dartmouth or Saint Mary's or whatever it doesn't change the fact that Huskies stadium does need a lot of work .

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

I remember it look pretty packed at 11,000 during touchdown Atlantic a few years back so im not sure how much more you could add/make permanent

The tower really makes it difficult to expand, if that can be relocated it would really help as far as expansion is concerned

whether this stadium goes to Dartmouth or Saint Mary's or whatever it doesn't change the fact that Huskies stadium does need a lot of work .

I am sure they can put 10-15K at Husky. There has to be 20 metres from the back of the stands to parking. Sure it would be asymmetrical, because you would have to cut out the south end a bit around the tower, but that is about 10% of the potential site for a new grandstand.

[MaritimeCFLFan]

I would never support building this at SMU. The site is just too small to allow for proper expansion. Also if you think that if this stadium gets built at SMU with 15k permanent seats and 5k temporary seats for FIFA and later down the road there will be a 2'nd more proper sized stadium to be built at another location your dreaming. We will only get 1 shot at doing this right.

I have no problem with the DC site. I do have a problem with the current model that we have been shown as I agree it sucks. Hell even if they built this thing at Shannon Park I would be ok with it too as it is my 2'nd choice (would have a very nice surrounding view, although there will be more than a few cold damp days there). I just worry about how much it will cost to upgrade the surrounding road infrastructure as it would need to be. If not I think it will be a nightmare getting into and out of the area traffic wise.

Putting this thing off for 6 months is a smart idea IMO as I think alot more consideration and planning needs to be done. Don't be in a hurry, just get it right. However do not risk losing the FIFA event or the whole project will die IMO. Hosting games for FIFA is the key to getting Federal and Provincial cash involved. Without that $ HRM cannot afford to do this alone.

[someone123]

My understanding is that the SMU site cannot support a CFL-sized stadium with 25,000 or more permanent seats.

If this is true then building a significant stadium at SMU will more or less destroy any chances of attracting the CFL. Getting public money for the CFL itself is difficult and the case for using public money to build a second 25,000 seat stadium for something like FIFA if we already had a 15,000 seat stadium at SMU would be extremely weak ("let's spend $70M so we can have a few more seats for a one-off event").

I have always thought that the best solution is to first build the 15,000-20,000 seat "community" stadium and then later fix up the existing SMU stadium more or less as-is, with only a few thousand seats. This would allow SMU sports teams to play there conveniently but the big games and events like the Uteck Bowl would take place at the larger community stadium. Since the community stadium events include university football games played by and attended by students on the peninsula, it would be a mistake to put the stadium out in Dartmouth Crossing.

A natural location for the community stadium would be somewhere around the Commons (the whole point of that area is that it's public land for public use -- a community stadium that brings in thousands of people is pretty much by definition a good public use), Gorsebrook (terribly underused), or maybe even the seawall area, but there doesn't seem to be much emphasis on choosing a central location. Dartmouth Crossing is being passed off as the "practical" location but in reality it is not very practical to build a major public piece of infrastructure far away from all potential users.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by someone123

It seems like an opportunity for this type of event comes along every few years.

It really doesn't make sense to rush and compromise an important $60-70M piece of infrastructure for an event like this. I'm not saying it can't work out, but it needs to be done properly or not at all.

My issue with this being a "FIFA" stadium is that, aside from having generated momentum, it is unclear what the benefit is?!?!

It is quite clear that the downside is that we are rushing to meet a FIFA deadline that is leading to a stadium size/location that is simply the least offensive to everyone.

I could see this as being fine if that were balanced by a clear benefit to it being aligned to FIFA... specifically, if that meant that funding from other government levels was made available. However, even aside from the NS NDP government so far appearing to be quite reticent (not to mention distracted by other issues) the Tory federal government has actually come out and said explicitly "there will be no federal funding for a stadium in Halifax". How are we ignoring that? It was pretty clearly stated, and the position has not publicly been changed. I had hopes that maybe they would split hairs on that definition and donate land to the city to do with as it pleased, but now that it is in DT it is clear that is not an option.

So... what are we getting as a net benefit for having done this as a FIFA project? Nothing. There is no money at the very least from the feds (no matter Mackay's personal interest), and almost certainly no money from the provincial government.

I do think that the one benefit was that it put the wind in the sails of a stadium project again after the commonwealth games fiasco. So what needs to happen now is that the community needs to decide that if it really wants this, we take the existing plan and effort, find a person or organization willing to champion a CFL anchor tenant, and go from there. This needs to be done sooner rather than later or like all the other attempts this will just die away.

I know there are people who disagree with that, and I respect that. However, I do not see the benefit of rushing to meet FIFA's deadlines when all that does is mean that we end up committing more Halifax tax dollars with clearly no input from other government levels (the 4-plex anyone?).

[JET]

Originally Posted by someone123

My understanding is that the SMU site cannot support a CFL-sized stadium with 25,000 or more permanent seats.

Dartmouth Crossing is being passed off as the "practical" location but in reality it is not very practical to build a major public piece of infrastructure far away from all potential users.

Because there are no potential users in Dartmouth, Sackville or Cole Harbour?Of course, the bridge only goes in one direction, and no one could possibly travel east.

[D-dog]

Just started following this and don't live in Halifax.... Why are they not going for 20k min then expand as needed for the CFL? The picture of what your getting for 60 million looks like the cheapest stadium I have ever seen, is it because of high construction cost in that area?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by JET

Because there are no potential users in Dartmouth, Sackville or Cole Harbour?Of course, the bridge only goes in one direction, and no one could possibly travel east.

Dartmouth Crossing is not particularly convenient for people in any of those places. The quarry site for example is by the 118. If you're driving from there to Sackville either you drive out to Waverley or you negotiate the lovely Magazine Hill. If you live in Cole Harbour you are crossing all of Dartmouth, and good luck trying to get a DC-Cole Harbour bus if you're not driving.

Of course all of these areas are less populated than Clayton Park, which is nowhere near DC. And the population in the core, particularly those without cars (such as many of the 30,000 or so university students) will also have a hard time getting out there.

I wish we could get past this petty neighbourhood crap because it frequently obscures reality. The reality is that most people live in Halifax or Dartmouth, and people living in far-flung areas like Fall River have doomed themselves to sitting in their car for lengthy periods regardless of what happens. Dartmouth Crossing is not a central location, and making people feel good about putting something on the east side of the harbour is not a good reason for choosing a stadium location. The stadium site should be close to a large number of people and Dartmouth Crossing does not qualify.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I do think that the one benefit was that it put the wind in the sails of a stadium project again after the commonwealth games fiasco. So what needs to happen now is that the community needs to decide that if it really wants this, we take the existing plan and effort, find a person or organization willing to champion a CFL anchor tenant, and go from there. This needs to be done sooner rather than later or like all the other attempts this will just die away.

...

I know there are people who disagree with that, and I respect that. However, I do not see the benefit of rushing to meet FIFA's deadlines when all that does is mean that we end up committing more Halifax tax dollars with clearly no input from other government levels (the 4-plex anyone?).

I agree. It's possible this will be sorted out but I doubt it.

Hopefully council will begin a more reasonable planning process with more public consultation and more consideration for different sites and designs. If they don't do this we'll just have the same fiasco over and over -- "OMG! EVENT X IS COMING! WE MUST BUILD A STADIUM NOW!" "OMG! WE HAVEN'T PLANNED PROPERLY! CANCEL!" It's sad but HRM regional council behaves like a 5 year old watching toy commercials sometimes. Not a good way to manage elaborate development plans.

[q12]

Council is discussing the stadium now:

http://live.haligonia.ca/

http://live.haligonia.ca/haligoniaplayerlive.php

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I am sure they can put 10-15K at Husky. There has to be 20 metres from the back of the stands to parking. Sure it would be asymmetrical, because you would have to cut out the south end a bit around the tower, but that is about 10% of the potential site for a new grandstand.

I heard Sue Uteck interviewed today and I think she said that SMU can accomodate 12,000 permanent seats, with 3,000 temp. seats on the hillside. Does this make sense...I'm not overly familiar with SMU's current set-up.

[q12]

Council discussion and chat can also be found here:

http://www.livestream.com/haligoniastudio

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by D-dog

Just started following this and don't live in Halifax.... Why are they not going for 20k min then expand as needed for the CFL? The picture of what your getting for 60 million looks like the cheapest stadium I have ever seen, is it because of high construction cost in that area?

I don't live in Halifax but am a huge CFL fan and want to see a team in Halifax, but I have the same question D-dog.

Fenwick, you have spent alot of time researching this and if they get the $50-60M I hear, I would this they would get more than a $14K stadium. It may not be a new Winnipeg Stadium, but it should be closer to a BMO Field

What am I missing?

[q12]

I've heard twice now that HRM has a population of 440,000 from council. Did I miss something?

[q12]

Motion Passed 15-4!

[cormiermax]

So wait, does that mean there building it?

[q12]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

So wait, does that mean there building it?

Not exactly, it means that they will get the extension so funding can be acquired and more refinements to the design and location can be done. Sounds like they are going to try to find out more information on the availability of Shannon Park.

[q12]

http://twitter.com/news957

Simpson957 Twitter
Scott Simpson
by News957

HRM Council gives the go-ahead to continue the stadium process.
Vote was 15-5.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

I don't live in Halifax but am a huge CFL fan and want to see a team in Halifax, but I have the same question D-dog.

Fenwick, you have spent alot of time researching this and if they get the $50-60M I hear, I would this they would get more than a $14K stadium. It may not be a new Winnipeg Stadium, but it should be closer to a BMO Field

What am I missing?

That amount includes parking, land cost and parking. So there is only $35 million to $45 million remaining for the stadium. Much of the initial cost includes the playing field, scoreboard, changerooms, etc.

I would prefer that they do something like the Pizza Hut Park stadium so it will be easy to expand and is probably less costly per seat than their proposed design which is very similar to BMO Field but smaller. (I enjoyed my trip to BMO Field, but I didn't like the aluminum decked Dant Clayton seating sections). I think that Maritime tradesmen should build a lower bowl out of concrete, based on a sunken bowl stadium, and then sometime in the future, if funds exist, add an upper tier which might possibly be aluminum decking.