The War on Drugs

[rousseau]

It's a catchy thread title. Hopefully the mentality behind it will eventually be a distant memory.

Needle drop boxes appear to be a part of the strategy to help make things safer for certain drug users. I was surprised to see one in Stratford, though. Apparently we were a meth pioneer fifteen years ago because a local lowlife went down to Texas and brought "the knowledge" back here, and thenceforth it spread all over the province. But I thought things had calmed down now, and I didn't think that vein surfing was all that big a problem.

But if one of these is showing up in a sedate little place like Stratford, then apparently it is? Are these things popping up all over the place?

[Innsertnamehere]

There’s one in the park across the street from my apartment and 2 safe injection sites within a 5 minute walk. I guess I’m almost desensitized to it at this point.. I do t live in the greatest of neighbourhoods either though.

[logan5]

I go into the DTES quite often. I don’t recall seeing one of these, oddly enough.

[Bishop2047]

There were quite a few of these around Saskatoon when I lived there.

I have some pretty extreme views on the "war on drugs". I would like to see the whole effort revamped. Decriminalizing all drugs is step one and diverting funds that would go to imprisonment and trials refocusing on rehab/prevention would be ideal. Big dealers still go to jail, but users are not criminalized.

As the War is structured now, it would seem to resemble the war in the middle east. You are not going to change anything while playing the role of insurgent.

[Chadillaccc]

There's a decent amount of needle drops in Calgary, wouldn't say nearly enough though. Our safe injection sites are severely lacking though, I can only think of one, in the Chumir Centre (sort of the downtown hospital but without full inpatient services).

[VANRIDERFAN]

I’m for decriminalization of drugs and eventually legalizing most of them. Did prohibition not teach us anything?

Our Navy and Air Force are involved in drug interdiction around the world but each time I see them make a big bust I think the cartels shrug their shoulders and chalk it down as the cost of doing business. For each bust, likely 5 other shipments are getting through.

[SignalHillHiker]

They're everywhere in St. John's. Most are small metal boxes tucked away in discreet corners of residential areas. They were designed by students at College of the North Atlantic, which is producing them in one of its classes so they are always adding more.

A couple are larger neighbourhood boxes, which are intended to raise awareness so they're purposefully installed in high-traffic, high-visibility parks. The main ones are at Quidi Vidi Lake in the East End and at Victoria Park in the West End.



A handful of other towns and cities throughout the province have installed a few as well.

[MonctonRad]

I probably have a bit of a reputation as a right winger around here, but really I'm more of a pragmatist.

As far as the "war on drugs" is concerned, I tend to believe that the idea of criminalizing drug abuse is futile. This is a war you cannot win.

Of course we should continue on with the war against illegal drug trafficking and importation. These activities are controlled by criminal syndicates and drug lords and they should be pursued and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. These people are predators.

The drug users themselves however are victims and should not be imprisoned. The state instead should try to protect them by creating safe injection sites, setting up needle exchanges and providing disposal points for used needles. These sites should be staffed by social workers and counselling should be made available to the users. If possible, the users should be encouraged to enter treatment programs and additional efforts made to reintegrate them into society, first with assisted living, retraining of life skills and assistance in finding new employment. This should be a government responsibility. I support this because I firmly believe it is cheaper than the alternative, will decrease the overall crime rate and will make our streets safer. This is a worthy use of our taxes.

FWIW, I also feel that prostitution should be completely legalized and regulated. I don't think either the prostitutes or the Johns should be prosecuted. Street prostitution however should be a misdemeanour, subject to fines (probably substantial ones). Prostitution should take place in government regulated places of business, with proper health and safety inspections, and with security for the prostitutes protection. This will remove the role of the pimp in the process, get rid of organized crime, and since the business is regulated, provide an additional taxation stream for the government. If we're going to tax alcohol, cigarette and marijuana sales, then why not tax prostitution as well? It's just another vice...........

[megadude]

The first and only time I've seen one of these was at Little Lake Park in Midland, ON next to the public washrooms. Was installed three years ago.

This is the place I do the most fishing when up north at the cottage. I knew from the few times I'd come off the water after 9pm that a certain element frequented the area when the sun goes down, but didn't see any drug use myself. More like sketchy people show up, start blasting music and pound some beers.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I probably have a bit of a reputation as a right winger around here, but really I'm more of a pragmatist.

As far as the "war on drugs" is concerned, I tend to believe that the idea of criminalizing drug abuse is futile. This is a war you cannot win.

Of course we should continue on with the war against illegal drug trafficking and importation. These activities are controlled by criminal syndicates and drug lords and they should be pursued and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. These people are predators.

The drug users themselves however are victims and should not be imprisoned. The state instead should try to protect them by creating safe injection sites, setting up needle exchanges and providing disposal points for used needles. These sites should be staffed by social workers and counselling should be made available to the users. If possible, the users should be encouraged to enter treatment programs and additional efforts made to reintegrate them into society, first with assisted living, retraining of life skills and assistance in finding new employment. This should be a government responsibility. I support this because I firmly believe it is cheaper than the alternative, will decrease the overall crime rate and will make our streets safer. This is a worthy use of our taxes.

FWIW, I also feel that prostitution should be completely legalized and regulated. I don't think either the prostitutes or the Johns should be prosecuted. Street prostitution however should be a misdemeanour, subject to fines (probably substantial ones). Prostitution should take place in government regulated places of business, with proper health and safety inspections, and with security for the prostitutes protection. This will remove the role of the pimp in the process, get rid of organized crime, and since the business is regulated, provide an additional taxation stream for the government. If we're going to tax alcohol, cigarette and marijuana sales, then why not tax prostitution as well? It's just another vice...........

A right wing mindset is fully compatible with decriminalisation of drugs - it's only tribalism and association with religion that causes conservatives to oppose it. In fact, banning drugs 'for your own good' is more of a paternalistic left wing policy, so called right wingers should fully support letting people do what they want with their own body. This contradiction, among many, is why I believe the left/right wing groupings to be bunk and avoid using them.

I totally agree though, decriminalisation just makes sense, from both an economic and a social standpoint. And prostitution, why not? We already have people being paid for sex, it just needs a camera in front of them.

[milomilo]

The War on Drugs, also, a pretty good band:

• Video Link

[flar]

A family friend's son died of an overdose last night, only 18. The drugs these days are really bad, I don't know if it was fentanyl, but that's my guess. It's almost an epidemic the last few years. Not sure what the answer is.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by flar

A family friend's son died of an overdose last night, only 18. The drugs these days are really bad, I don't know if it was fentanyl, but that's my guess. It's almost an epidemic the last few years. Not sure what the answer is.

I'm sorry to hear this - my condolences.

You need a two pronged approach to this problem:

1) - go after the pushers and the traffickers hard. They deserve prolonged prison sentences. They enable the system and profit immensely from the system. They are an abomination.
2) - the users on the other hand are the victims. Every effort should be made to bring them out of the shadows. Only by having safe injection sites (with people trained in the use of Narcan, and who also know how to spot and deal with non fentanyl related overdose situations) will you start to make a dent in the tragic death toll existing with modern drug use. And as I mentioned in my post, having professionally staffed safe injection sites might also allow for social workers to begin the process of reintegrating users into broader society, and to adopt clean and healthy lifestyles.

[Nouvellecosse]

And that's the tragedy in all this. The criminalization of drugs that's supposedly intended to protect the public actually puts people at greater risk because the products are not regulated and quality assured and instead created and distributed by ruthless criminals. Meanwhile there are fewer harm reduction options available and governments regularly antagonize the ones that do exist despite the valuable work they do.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by flar

A family friend's son died of an overdose last night, only 18. The drugs these days are really bad, I don't know if it was fentanyl, but that's my guess. It's almost an epidemic the last few years. Not sure what the answer is.

Dealers should be charged with murder. Almost no one is knowingly doing fentanyl. People are dying because they're using their regular dose of something else, thinking it is something else, but overdosing on fentanyl instead.

It's just such callous greed. Cutting their drugs with fentanyl to make them cheaper, and killing customers for a few extra bucks. It doesn't even make good business sense.

Sorry to hear about your friend's child.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by flar

A family friend's son died of an overdose last night, only 18. The drugs these days are really bad, I don't know if it was fentanyl, but that's my guess. It's almost an epidemic the last few years. Not sure what the answer is.

That's terrible to hear.

There was a story out of Winnipeg a while ago about someone encountering an unconscious person. He was told by 911 to perform mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, but he refused for fear of coming into contact with fentanyl. Apparently the fatal dose is tiny.

It got me to thinking, and unfortunately, I came to the conclusion that I would do the same. I'd run into a burning building in the heat of the moment to rescue someone, but I wouldn't touch someone on the street who looked like a likely candidate for a drug overdose.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

FWIW, I also feel that prostitution should be completely legalized and regulated. I don't think either the prostitutes or the Johns should be prosecuted. Street prostitution however should be a misdemeanour, subject to fines (probably substantial ones). Prostitution should take place in government regulated places of business, with proper health and safety inspections, and with security for the prostitutes protection. This will remove the role of the pimp in the process, get rid of organized crime, and since the business is regulated, provide an additional taxation stream for the government. If we're going to tax alcohol, cigarette and marijuana sales, then why not tax prostitution as well? It's just another vice...........

I agree with this too, though apparently in Europe the legalization of prostitution hasn't actually decreased the involvement of the underworld. Girls are still being kidnapped from less economically developed countries and essentially held as slaves in legal brothels. I don't know if it's just a legacy phenomenon that may eventually peter out with stricter regulation, or if a fundamental fix to the system is required.

The obvious contradiction when it comes to pornography is utterly ridiculous and logically incoherent, though. Got a camera? Good, you can pay or receive money to have sex. No camera? Sorry, that's prostitution, that's not allowed.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by rousseau

There was a story out of Winnipeg a while ago about someone encountering an unconscious person. He was told by 911 to perform mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, but he refused for fear of coming into contact with fentanyl. Apparently the fatal dose is tiny.

This picture blew my mind when I first saw it sometime last year when fentanyl was all over the news. The lethal dose of fentanyl compared to high-grade heroin.


from:https://www.squamishchief.com/news/l...sky-1.23160727

Even just having it contact your skin can be incredibly dangerous if enough of it is absorbed into the body.

[Dengler Avenue]

@flar: I’m sorry to hear such loss. Condolence.

In fact, it reminded me of another SSPer who lost a family friend to a car crash.

=======

I think people here said it well: crack down hard on traffickers (though first-time offenders can be a special case here) and rehabilitate users.

[flar]

You hear a lot about charging dealers with murder since the fentanyl crisis started, but from a policy perspective there would be a lot of difficult issues to sort out, and innocents would end up in jail, just like with the war on drugs. In many cases it would be impossible to prove who adulterated the product. Was it the low level guy on the street or someone further up the chain? It could even be a friend sharing it unknowingly.