Gimli/Lake Winnipeg Beaches Development

[wags_in_the_peg]

Not sure if this is new or a repetitive but first I heard of it.

"six new personal care homes, two are coming to Winnipeg with 143 beds coming to Bridgewater and 140 on Portage Avenue.

Four personal care homes are coming to the Interlake-Eastern Regional Health Authority in Arborg (60 beds), Lac du Bonnet (95 beds), Oakbank (96 beds) and Stonewall (144 beds).

Approximately 670 beds are tied to the projects with the exact number to be fleshed out as the planning and design work takes place"

[esquire]

^ Speaking of, I was in Gimli this weekend and noticed a fairly large assisted living home under construction next to the Waterfront Centre on First Street. Still doing the groundwork at this point. Can't recall the floor count but looked to be about seven. I don't remember reading anything about it before? Great location though, Gimli is such a great town.

[Biff]

7 storey's, 48 units

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Biff

7 storey's, 48 units

U referring to Gimli PCH or a new build coming to ?

[Biff]

Sorry, the Gimli building.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Speaking of, I was in Gimli this weekend and noticed a fairly large assisted living home under construction next to the Waterfront Centre on First Street. Still doing the groundwork at this point. Can't recall the floor count but looked to be about seven. I don't remember reading anything about it before? Great location though, Gimli is such a great town.

Gimli as a whole is a great location for a new PCH like that however the location is absolutely brutal for the town of Gimli. In terms people there could relate to it is like demoing a block of Corydon to turn it into a gravel surface lot. The PCH is to be located just off the corner of First and Centre which are the two high streets in Gimli and that corner sees more pedestrian traffic than any intersection on Portage Ave in Winnipeg. First is where lots of restaurants and shops are located. Building a massive PCH there is to permanently commit that space to being a no-go away for pedestrians. Worse, at the most peak of times they close down part of the street out front to create a pedestrian mall with vendors. And events like fireworks or weekly outdoor bands are a short step away from the purposed location which I am sure will be problematic once the PCH is filled with residents.

On 7th (HWY 9) there is currently a gravel surface lot just to the north of the Gimli hospital. That would have been an excellent place for a PCH. The reality is residents of a PCH are extremely unlikely to ever leave the building to take part in events happening outside the building.

[esquire]

^ First Street is barely developed apart from a one-block stretch, which has several buildings that are practically tear-downs...there is plenty of room to do whatever anyone could possibly want to do. It's not running out of space. I'm not surprised that a lakefront location would be considered desirable by residents, I don't see the need to shunt them off by the highway.

[trueviking]

Gimli is such a lost opportunity. The main street that runs perpendicular to the water could have been such a nice walkable street but it was redeveloped with strip malls and other buildings set back from the street behind parking lots, all the way down.....its really a shame.

[Sheepish]

So true...parking could easily been created in the rear of the buildings, to provide a real streetscape. And now a new DQ is being finished on Centre St. Ugh!

[esquire]

^ Yeah, and Centre Street has only gotten uglier as the years go by... most new buildings are godawful, and there doesn't seem to be as much tree cover anymore either. It could be so much more, but no one can resist the urge to have the 20 car parking lot out front.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Yeah, and Centre Street has only gotten uglier as the years go by... most new buildings are godawful, and there doesn't seem to be as much tree cover anymore either. It could be so much more, but no one can resist the urge to have the 20 car parking lot out front.

That itself is laughable and shows a lack of knowledge of Gimli.

1. The PCH is right off the highest pedestrian traffic corner in town and quite possibly the highest pedestrian traffic corner in the whole province.
2. The purposed PCH does zero to interact with pedestrian traffic.
3. The PCH is no on the lake and actually set far enough back from the lake the residents won't even easily be able to see it.
First is far more important than Centre as it is close to the lake/beach.
4. There have been exactly two new builds on anywhere east of HWY 9 in about the past 25 years, three if you count the in progress DQ which is being built right on the sidewalk.
5. There is a Gimli Waterfront Master Plan currently being worked on to significantly shift the traffic character of the town in high season.

[esquire]

https://goo.gl/maps/ohnuwNG7JsgAj3nF7

The lot has been empty (along with the one next to it) for at least 14 years. Probably a hell of a lot longer than Street View shows. If no one stepped up in all that time to propose something else, then I'd say it's fair game for an assisted living building. Gimli is a sleepy Interlake town, it's not the Ginza. There never was any pedestrian-generated commercial activity on that block to snuff out in the first place.

I'd also wager that the corner of Centre and 1st isn't even in the top 20 intersections in Manitoba by ped count, let alone first place. There are a lot of pedestrians from Friday to Sunday, June to August. The rest of that time that intersection is dead in terms of pedestrians.

[Sheepish]

Not sure why discussions about Gimli are here, other than it is a lesson to be learned about how NOT to develop a street. And two respond to CB, there have certainly been more than 2 builds east of HWY9 in Gimli over the past 25 years. Along Center itself, you have the LC, Credit Union, Lighthouse, TimHortons and B& B (which used to be a Drs office). There are 2 Condos and an Apartment along First. The Co-op store Red Apple, Chicken Chef (which used to include the famous Central Bakery/Cafe) and Taylor Pharmacy may predate (not certain)...but along with LC, Tim's and Credit Union, all have ugly parking lots in front. The Lesson...if you want an interesting, active, walkable street, put the damned parking in the back!! Whether in Gimli or Winnipeg.

[WinCitySparky]

[thebasketballgeek]

Urban Planner Challenge: Design a street in Manitoba that is pedestrian friendly and does NOT have a parking lot in front of the building.

Difficulty level: Impossible

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

Not sure why discussions about Gimli are here, other than it is a lesson to be learned about how NOT to develop a street. And two respond to CB, there have certainly been more than 2 builds east of HWY9 in Gimli over the past 25 years. Along Center itself, you have the LC, Credit Union, Lighthouse, TimHortons and B& B (which used to be a Drs office). There are 2 Condos and an Apartment along First. The Co-op store Red Apple, Chicken Chef (which used to include the famous Central Bakery/Cafe) and Taylor Pharmacy may predate (not certain)...but along with LC, Tim's and Credit Union, all have ugly parking lots in front. The Lesson...if you want an interesting, active, walkable street, put the damned parking in the back!! Whether in Gimli or Winnipeg.

Again your lack of knowledge of the subject is showing clear as day.

In the past 25 years east of Centre there are three new condo buildings, one of them replaced a hotel on First Ave and one is within the residential area.

There is a new build Liquor Mart that probably goes back 10+ years now.

The Credit Union is a new build, which predates the Bears on Broadway in 2006 (17 years ago).

There is the timeshare expansion on the Lakeview hotel which also goes back a similar timeframe.

Technically the Thai Plaza is a new build too but it is effectively an in place replacement of the former building built by insurance when the former foundation was destroyed.

I did forget the Beachview Professional Centre which attempts to have a pedestrian friendly presence. Best guess is that one is 20+ years old.

Soon there will be a replacement for Kris' and a new DQ.

The other ones if you really want to get deep and be technical about it is there is a new fire hall and coast guard building.

And before someone mentions it the new RCMP building is west of HWY 9.

That's it. Hard stop.

--

The Tim's you cite as "new" along with Taylor Pharmacy, same owner, goes back more than 25 years with its parking lot. The Pharmacy used to be more on the corner where Tims is now with the LC next door. When the LC relocated the pharmacy expanded and added the Tims.

The Red Apple and its parking lot moved in to the space vacated by the Sobeys when they relocated west of HWY 9 and outside of the core area of the town, same with the Rona next door.

Chicken Chef and its parking lot, as you mention, took over a long established building and goes back over 25 years.

Co-op is essentially a banner change on the former food store (Super A) similar to how Home Hardware is just a name change on the hardware store (TruValue).

Inn on Centre is actually a boutique hotel and not a B&B as you claim and it took over an existing building. Fairly certain it was actually a dentist office but I had never been.

The LightHouse Mall also goes back well over 25 years. I have no clue on that one but know it was well established before I started going there despite how modern looking it seems.

And Buskers, which you didn't mention, took over the former Gimli Water Haus location.

If you want to go see Gimli from more than 7 years ago just hit up Street View. You can easily date it as Circle K is still running the former Macs branding which was retired in 2017.

--

If you look along First where the PCH is built it is all commercial built up to the sidewalk. With forward movement happening again such as the redevelopment of Whitecaps into Interlake Brewing and the construction of the DQ on the former Shell location there is hope more will follow. I used to question how a Thai restaurant could succeed there yet it did despite the odds. That made be think could it truly be that long before an Indian or sushi place pops up, given there would be space available for them. Sure enough this summer someone is testing the marking for Indian food with a pop up stall on the boardwalk. But building a PCH in one of the most prime areas for such future developments chokes out future opportunities like that.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Again your lack of knowledge of the subject is showing clear as day.

In the past 25 years east of Centre there are three new condo buildings, one of them replaced a hotel on First Ave and one is within the residential area.

There is a new build Liquor Mart that probably goes back 10+ years now.

The Credit Union is a new build, which predates the Bears on Broadway in 2006 (17 years ago).

There is the timeshare expansion on the Lakeview hotel which also goes back a similar timeframe.

Technically the Thai Plaza is a new build too but it is effectively an in place replacement of the former building built by insurance when the former foundation was destroyed.

I did forget the Beachview Professional Centre which attempts to have a pedestrian friendly presence. Best guess is that one is 20+ years old.

Soon there will be a replacement for Kris' and a new DQ.

The other ones if you really want to get deep and be technical about it is there is a new fire hall and coast guard building.

And before someone mentions it the new RCMP building is west of HWY 9.

That's it. Hard stop.

--

The Tim's you cite as "new" along with Taylor Pharmacy, same owner, goes back more than 25 years with its parking lot. The Pharmacy used to be more on the corner where Tims is now with the LC next door. When the LC relocated the pharmacy expanded and added the Tims.

The Red Apple and its parking lot moved in to the space vacated by the Sobeys when they relocated west of HWY 9 and outside of the core area of the town, same with the Rona next door.

Chicken Chef and its parking lot, as you mention, took over a long established building and goes back over 25 years.

Co-op is essentially a banner change on the former food store (Super A) similar to how Home Hardware is just a name change on the hardware store (TruValue).

Inn on Centre is actually a boutique hotel and not a B&B as you claim and it took over an existing building. Fairly certain it was actually a dentist office but I had never been.

The LightHouse Mall also goes back well over 25 years. I have no clue on that one but know it was well established before I started going there despite how modern looking it seems.

And Buskers, which you didn't mention, took over the former Gimli Water Haus location.

If you want to go see Gimli from more than 7 years ago just hit up Street View. You can easily date it as Circle K is still running the former Macs branding which was retired in 2017.

--

If you look along First where the PCH is built it is all commercial built up to the sidewalk. With forward movement happening again such as the redevelopment of Whitecaps into Interlake Brewing and the construction of the DQ on the former Shell location there is hope more will follow. I used to question how a Thai restaurant could succeed there yet it did despite the odds. That made be think could it truly be that long before an Indian or sushi place pops up, given there would be space available for them. Sure enough this summer someone is testing the marking for Indian food with a pop up stall on the boardwalk. But building a PCH in one of the most prime areas for such future developments chokes out future opportunities like that.

None of this disputes the fact that Gimli's main high street is a lost opportunity and perfect example of how not to undertake small town urbanism. It is one of the most unsightly streets I have seen in such a prominent location given it's proximity and potential.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

None of this disputes the fact that Gimli's main high street is a lost opportunity and perfect example of how not to undertake small town urbanism. It is one of the most unsightly streets I have seen in such a prominent location given it's proximity and potential.

Correct. Gimli has the potential to be truly special but falls short.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

None of this disputes the fact that Gimli's main high street is a lost opportunity and perfect example of how not to undertake small town urbanism. It is one of the most unsightly streets I have seen in such a prominent location given it's proximity and potential.

Does the province provide any guidance on this stuff to small towns? It's not shocking that a RM with like 3 employees that aren't in public works or emergency services wouldn't be experts in urbanism, but you would think that maybe having someone at the provincial government to point out simple things like "hey, why not put the building flush to the street with parking in the back?" would be a good idea.

I admit that in most cases it doesn't matter, e.g. if the Eriksdale Co-op wants a massive gravel parking lot in front of the store then have at 'er, but there are some Manitoba towns with good potential in that area (Gimli being near the top of the list, but also places like Neepawa, Morden, Dauphin, Arborg). It would be nice if they could get some useful advice on this stuff.

[Sheepish]

No lack of knowledge here CB.
First...I did not claim that Red Apple (formerly IGA!!), Co-op or Chicken Chef/Central Bakery were new/recent builds. But it doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake to allow strip mall type development on that street, whenever those were built.
The Inn was built as Doctor's office (I don't think it was a conversion), then it was a gift store, before the conversion to an inn, and sits beautifully on Center.
Tim's was a NEW build. LC was a NEW build. Credit Union was NEW build. DQ is a NEW build. All set back with parking in front. I am not aware of when Taylor Pharmacy was built.
As you move closer to first, there is more activity at the sidewalk. And closer to 9 you have the hardware store, Johnsons, the Post office all at the sidewalk. So there is this weird void in between, which is a shame...if not a crime.
In the end, I'm not sure what the argument is here. Are you suggesting that these are appropriate developments for fostering pedestrian activity? The point is these set backs with parking in front have destroyed the streetscape. It is a lesson for Gimli and a lesson for Winnipeg. Imagine if the new residential projects in the village were all set back with parking in front! Imagine if any development on the lot north of the former Earls had a set back. Or if True North's redevelopment of Portage Place had parking in front! Sadly, Corydon Ave has a couple of developments that included parking in front. Hopefully the rules have been tightened to prevent that from happening again. That's what we can learn from Gimli.