How far will the Atlanta suburban sprawl spread?

[The North One]

Century City seems to be analogous to Buckhead, not Beverly Hills.

[niwell]

Isn't Buckhead originally pre-war? Obviously almost everything is new but I think the area was originally developed in the 30s/40s. Could be wrong though.

In terms of layout it actually looks somewhat similar to Sandton City in Johannesburg, and surrounded by the same very wealthy low density residential:

https://goo.gl/maps/HFzVC3jnT8y

https://goo.gl/maps/LP1pZC5y2eU2

[Docere]

Buckhead was annexed by Atlanta in 1952. What was the population of the area then? That would give a sense of how built up it was then. There may be specific Buckhead population census data for 1950 and earlier censuses as well.

[Crawford]

This is typical Bethesda residential street: modest sized homes (for a very rich area), many teardowns, older homes date from the 40's or 50's. Lots are a bit bigger here, and get smaller in Chevy Chase, closer to DC. Sidewalks appear kinda spotty, which is a bit surprising:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9823...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Here's a typical street in Buckhead. More classic suburban estate country, with big, newer homes on generous lots, and wooded, winding streets:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bu...!4d-84.406761\

Both the Bethesda and Buckhead examples are within a mile or so of rail transit and suburban town centers. One obvious similarity is that both are very green, hilly and tree-filled, but that's true of the entire DC and Atlanta metros. Both look like forests with highrise clusters when you fly overhead.

[Docere]

I know people in DC/MD really like to think of themselves "Northeastern" but DC's metro resembles that of Atlanta more than that of New York or Philadelphia IMO.

[Tuckerman]

As I mentioned earlier we should give up on the argument about urban-suburban; a conceptual dead end. Otherwise we get into stupid discussions of whether or not Buckhead is urban or suburban. The same discussion can be had for Queens. Is Queens urban or suburban? Well, of course it depends on your use of the concepts. In my view it is an urban section of NYC, but it looks suburban as well and that argument has been ongoing. Realistically You have to get many miles away from downtown Atlanta or Times Sq. before you find only suburban housing that is isolated from urban amenities such as business, offices, government buildings, shops and other typical urban amenities. Conceptually the first so-called suburbs were almost entirely devoted to residential housing and an occasional place of worship; urban infrastructure followed. What we now experience as sprawl, IMO, is simply the urbanization of the countryside driven by the expansion of cities and their functions. Also it is very clear, in the Atlanta situation, that smaller towns and cities, e.g. Decatur, Tucker, Marietta, Dunwoody, etc were simply further urbanized and incorporated in the urban sprawl of the Atlanta area.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by The North One

Century City seems to be analogous to Buckhead, not Beverly Hills.

Well, Century City (citrus groves and ranch land until 20th Century Fox built studios there in the late 1920s and later developed the northern portion of their backlot in the 1960s for commercial) is directly adjacent to Beverly Hills and Holmby Hills, areas very similar to the estate areas of western Buckhead. Buckhead also has lots of very high end shopping and hotels of the type you might find in Beverly Hills/Century City plus millions of square feet of office space like you'd find in Century City. Lots of differences certainly, but both Bev Hills and Buckhead were formerly true suburban residential areas originally developed in the first half of the 20th Century that morphed into powerhouse commercial nodes located about 8 to 10 miles from the central business districts of what are now vast sprawling metros. Personally, I think Buckhead also has a lot in common with the Galleria area of Houston (loaded with high end shopping, hotels, high rise apartments, and office buildings), which is adjacent to swanky neighborhoods such as Tanglewood, Memorial, and, on the other side of the inner loop, ritzy River Oaks. The Galleria area is also about 8 miles from downtown Houston.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Docere

Buckhead was annexed by Atlanta in 1952. What was the population of the area then? That would give a sense of how built up it was then. There may be specific Buckhead population census data for 1950 and earlier censuses as well.

Don't know what the population was, but it must have been enough to encourage the Atlanta power players (especially Mayor Hartsfield) of that era to push for annexation. They were rather candid about some of the reasons why they wanted the Buckhead area annexed. Specifically, it was home to large and growing numbers of white people, affluent former Atlanta residents and also many newcomers to the area. As early as 1952 it would seem that the Atlanta power structure was concerned about the prospect of losing political control of the city in the event that black residents started to vote in large numbers.

[Docere]

I was able to find some old data:

1950 26,794
1940 16,814
1930 10,356

According to Wikipedia, Buckhead has a current population of 78,000.

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Docere

I know people in DC/MD really like to think of themselves "Northeastern" but DC's metro resembles that of Atlanta more than that of New York or Philadelphia IMO.

The areas adjacent to both the Washington Beltway and Atlanta's Perimeter Highway look amazingly alike, and they have similar development patterns too.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I guess when you refuse to accept reality, you can always resort to calling everyone else liars.

Not everyone else, just you Crawford. You've been spewing lies about Atlanta for as long as I've been on this forum. It's what people incapable of ever admitting that they're wrong do, they lie.

Like your insane claim that Big Beaver Rd. in Troy, MI is exactly like Peachtree Rd. in Buckhead, or that pre-WWII bungalow neighborhoods don't exist there.

Your claim that Buckhead is urban and somehow a unique typology to Atlanta, is beyond bizarre. There is absolutely nothing supporting your ridiculous claims. Buckhead is very low density, heavily autocentric, 99% unwalkable, mostly postwar growth and classic upscale, favored quarter suburbia/edge city.

What's bizarre is your continued delusion that you know simply everything about....everything. You obviously have no clue about this area, but that's never stopped you.

It's SFH in dense woods, with a edge city highrise cluster.There's a Buckhead in every major metro area in the U.S. If Buckhead is urban than basically any business node in any U.S. metro area can be urban.

No, there isn't. Not within the core City of the Metro, and not surround by mansions and estates. And despite your beyond warped views of what is and isn't urban, you're wrong yet again Crawford.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The DC analogy to Buckhead would probably be Tysons Corner. Both are postwar edge cities surrounded by wooded estates, both have a very important business core, both are the dominant regional retail centers, both have rail access.

There is no D.C. analogy to Buckhead, and it is not even remotely similar to Tysons. Tysons should be compared to Perimeter Center, not Buckhead.

Again, Buckhead is not an Edge City. It is a district.

[Tuckerman]

I agree,
"Buckhead is not an Edge City. It is a district."

As I mentioned earlier, Buckhead, particularly the business, residential and shopping areas are part of the enlarging central spine of Peachtree and Piedmont Roads, that constitutes an emerging linear CBD that is in the political city of Atlanta. In many ways the Perimeter area is an extension of that same N-S development.

One big difference between the DC Beltway and the ATL Perimeter from a development perspective is that the overwhelming development in ATL is to the North, NW and NE. In DC there is development all around the Beltway with significant nodes in MD and VA. The Atlanta urban sprawl is heavily to the North of the Perimeter I-285. Ii is clear that the original "Downtown" area is the Southern end of this development. There are continuing efforts to develop the Southside, especially around the Airport, but these pale by comparison to the development northward. This is why, IMO, the center of the metro area is shifting to Midtown and Buckhead. Fortunately this development tracks along the North Point line of MARTA, and transit access has fostered considerable office development along the line.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by tdawg

Themaguffin wins for stupidest comment. Buckhead is indeed uptown Atlanta. Its closest relative is Beverly Hills. If Beverly Hills isn't even suburban, then what the hell is it? You're clearly very unfamiliar with Buckhead and Atlanta. This whole thread calls for a new Buckhead photo tour.

Beverly Hills has a strange reputation too.

Almost half of Beverly Hills is pretty dense/urban for newer cities. The Golden Triangle is a very active, urban node. Beverly Hills also has other active commerical districts, like Robertson, Beverly Drive, Wilshire, La Cieniega, and Pico. Some of these are lined with more expensive retail.
Beverly Hills cache/luxury also stretches into LA's walkable districts of West 3rd Street, Melrose and Beverly Blvd.

South of Santa Monica Blvd, even Beverly Hills's residential areas are walkable. It's full of 4-7 story condo and apartment complexes. Same is true for office and hotel development.

Someone needs to show an aerial of Beverly Hills or something. I dont think there is a a Beverly Hills equivalent, anywhere.

People are hung up on Buckhead having taller buildings. That doesn't mean anything.

[Centropolis]

beverly hills has very good sidewalks, like portland good sidewalks. a huge chunk of it is perfectly walkable. it's not entirely unlike the high-end pre-war suburbs around chicago, detroit, or st. louis in the midwest, but the scale and geography are unmatched.

[Crawford]

Yeah, Beverly Hills south of Sunset is pretty much all reasonably walkable.

It it a great pedestrian environment? Not really. It's fine, though. There's nothing south of Sunset where you'll feel weird/uncomfortable walking.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Not everyone else, just you Crawford. You've been spewing lies about Atlanta for as long as I've been on this forum. It's what people incapable of ever admitting that they're wrong do, they lie.

No you're outright lying. There is absolutely nothing factual that supports your ridiculous claims, so you respond absurd personal attacks.

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Like your insane claim that Big Beaver Rd. in Troy, MI is exactly like Peachtree Rd. in Buckhead, or that pre-WWII bungalow neighborhoods don't exist there.

You're lying (again). I never made such a claim, ever.

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

What's bizarre is your continued delusion that you know simply everything about....everything. You obviously have no clue about this area, but that's never stopped you.

See above. More lies/personal attacks, because you have nothing supporting your claims.

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

No, there isn't. Not within the core City of the Metro, and not surround by mansions and estates. And despite your beyond warped views of what is and isn't urban, you're wrong yet again Crawford.

Yes, we believe you, really. There is definitely no other place in America with mansions and estates in a favored quarter, with shopping malls, luxury hotels and highrise office buildings in proximity. That typology is completely unique to Buckhead and not present in every major metro in North America...

[The North One]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Beverly Hills has a strange reputation too.

Almost half of Beverly Hills is pretty dense/urban for newer cities.

South of Santa Monica Blvd, even Beverly Hills's residential areas are walkable. It's full of 4-7 story condo and apartment complexes. Same is true for office and hotel development.

People are hung up on Buckhead having taller buildings. That doesn't mean anything.

Which is exactly my point, Beverly Hills is sufficiently urban, Buckhead is not.

Buckhead is an office center with a pedestrian mall and a few residential high rises surrounded by detached homes or suburban apartments; which is exactly what Century City is, both not traditionally urban, case closed.

[mhays]

Atlanta and LA are very different. Buckhead's highrise district is surrounded by the sort of low density not found really in any flat part of the LA basin that I'm aware of, just the hills. But it's somewhat urban...moderately dense but car dominated, much like LA's secondary centers. LA is pretty consistently at least streetcar-style suburbia with bungalows on fairly small lots.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by austlar1

The areas adjacent to both the Washington Beltway and Atlanta's Perimeter Highway look amazingly alike, and they have similar development patterns too.