Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Sarah89]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Because the 'out' is more audible among the working class. Status-seeking.

Not exactly. Canadians aren't aware when they say ''out'' like that unless they live outside of Canada. Canadians of all classes can use the high vowel in out without knowing it. Even John Tory says ''out'' and ''about' in some sentences (listen to his speeches) with classic CR and in others it's more subtle. He is still an eloquent speaker though.

Just because someone has CR (Canadian raising) doesn't mean they sound like a Hoser. Sounding like a Hoser is something else and it isn't always class bound. You have Doug Ford- obviously one of the most extreme cases of a a Hoser accent yet he was born into money. The cards don't always add up.

[Sarah89]

Obviously this ''about'' discussion arising again still means Canadians are deaf to the accent. Tone deaf. Not ''insecure'' just not able to notice.

[Pinus]

I have never heard of the term "hoser" accent (which sounds like a put down to be honest), but understand what is meant by it. I prefer "Canadian" accent. I have this accent full on, and I see nothing wrong with it. Why would I feel ashamed? I love my accent. I'm proud of the way I sound. The only ones that have mocked me for it are Americans, but I come to expect that now.

I will never be ashamed of my accent, and will encourage my children to be proud of theirs as well. Unfortunately it seems like some Canadian SSP members seem embarrassed of this accent, which is sad in itself, and would probably prefer to sound like a boring plain-Jane Midwest American due to some stupid idea that it's a higher "status" sounding accent, which is amongst the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Unfortunately it seems like some Canadian SSP members seem embarrassed of this accent, which is sad in itself, and would probably prefer to sound like a boring plain-Jane Midwest American due to some stupid idea that it's a higher "status" sounding accent, which is amongst the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.

Americans often think that Canadians have a Minnesotan type accent, because they have no concrete mental picture of what Canadians talk like. I've noticed some Canadians think this way too, probably due to consumption of American media. Canada is a country that often gets information about its own culture from abroad.

The strongest accents tend to be from rural areas. Just as if you have a non-working-class southern English accent you are considered more intelligent, if you have a rural Canadian accent you are considered less intelligent. This is how status with accents works and it's why they are abandoned.

Here in Vancouver there's a lot of flexibility for ESL speakers. It's considered inappropriate to make fun of a Chinese person speaking English with a thick accent. But if you say "car" in the Atlantic way, be prepared for people to bring it up and make fun of it over and over again (not immigrants but rather Canadian born native English speakers). If you sound like a Newfoundlander, well, I hope you like Newfie jokes. If you are a Maritimer you might need to get used to Newfie jokes too because most people here don't know the difference. There is little sense of tolerance or promotion of domestic culture. Culture here is mostly international multiculturalism or a desire to be integrated into American mass media.

Given the demographics and trends in communication and mobility, I think the unique English accents in Canada will be all but gone in a generation or two.

This is definitely true in say Vancouver, where there wasn't much endemic culture to begin with, but it's happening in Halifax too. Most newcomers there now are immigrants, whereas 30 years ago they would have come from other parts of Atlantic Canada. The rural areas are dying and they will not be a major source of in-migration to Canadian cities in the future.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by someone123

Americans often think that Canadians have a Minnesotan type accent, because they have no concrete mental picture of what Canadians talk like. I've noticed some Canadians think this way too, probably due to consumption of American media. Canada is a country that often gets information about its own culture from abroad.

The strongest accents tend to be from rural areas. Just as if you have a non-working-class southern English accent you are considered more intelligent, if you have a rural Canadian accent you are considered less intelligent. This is how status with accents works and it's why they are abandoned.

Here in Vancouver there's a lot of flexibility for ESL speakers. It's considered inappropriate to make fun of a Chinese person speaking English with a thick accent. But if you say "car" in the Atlantic way, be prepared for people to bring it up and make fun of it over and over again (not immigrants but rather Canadian born native English speakers). If you sound like a Newfoundlander, well, I hope you like Newfie jokes. If you are a Maritimer you might need to get used to Newfie jokes too because most people here don't know the difference. There is little sense of tolerance or promotion of domestic culture. Culture here is mostly international multiculturalism or a desire to be integrated into American mass media.

Given the demographics and trends in communication and mobility, I think the unique English accents in Canada will be all but gone in a generation or two.

This is definitely true in say Vancouver, where there wasn't much endemic culture to begin with, but it's happening in Halifax too. Most newcomers there now are immigrants, whereas 30 years ago they would have come from other parts of Atlantic Canada. The rural areas are dying and they will not be a major source of in-migration to Canadian cities in the future.

Yeah, I know most of what you are saying is true, but I still think it's bullshit that people buy into it. And it all stems from the influence from the US, where their criteria of what proper status is has crept into our culture as well. I really and truly despise the influence of American culture with a passion, and even more so that so many Canadians seem to want to strive to be like Americans. I truly hate it, and will make no apologies for how I feel.

[Acajack]

So... how do you guys feel about the Raptors?

[Sarah89]

Originally Posted by Pinus

I have never heard of the term "hoser" accent (which sounds like a put down to be honest), but understand what is meant by it. I prefer "Canadian" accent. I have this accent full on, and I see nothing wrong with it. Why would I feel ashamed? I love my accent. I'm proud of the way I sound. The only ones that have mocked me for it are Americans, but I come to expect that now.

I will never be ashamed of my accent, and will encourage my children to be proud of theirs as well. Unfortunately it seems like some Canadian SSP members seem embarrassed of this accent, which is sad in itself, and would probably prefer to sound like a boring plain-Jane Midwest American due to some stupid idea that it's a higher "status" sounding accent, which is amongst the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.

They're not embarrassed, just not in tune to noticing a vowel difference. Of course people will get touchy when another person claims you say '' a boot'' (how ridiculous).

I challenged the class association in my posts above. Take ''Doug Ford'' - born rich, sounds ultra Hoserish. I heard a rich girl in a Starbucks in Oakville raising vowels like Mother f***** a year ago. The class association is not exactly accurate.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by someone123

Americans often think that Canadians have a Minnesotan type accent, because they have no concrete mental picture of what Canadians talk like. I've noticed some Canadians think this way too, probably due to consumption of American media. Canada is a country that often gets information about its own culture from abroad.

The strongest accents tend to be from rural areas. Just as if you have a non-working-class southern English accent you are considered more intelligent, if you have a rural Canadian accent you are considered less intelligent. This is how status with accents works and it's why they are abandoned.

Here in Vancouver there's a lot of flexibility for ESL speakers. It's considered inappropriate to make fun of a Chinese person speaking English with a thick accent. But if you say "car" in the Atlantic way, be prepared for people to bring it up and make fun of it over and over again (not immigrants but rather Canadian born native English speakers). If you sound like a Newfoundlander, well, I hope you like Newfie jokes. If you are a Maritimer you might need to get used to Newfie jokes too because most people here don't know the difference. There is little sense of tolerance or promotion of domestic culture. Culture here is mostly international multiculturalism or a desire to be integrated into American mass media.

Given the demographics and trends in communication and mobility, I think the unique English accents in Canada will be all but gone in a generation or two.

This is definitely true in say Vancouver, where there wasn't much endemic culture to begin with, but it's happening in Halifax too. Most newcomers there now are immigrants, whereas 30 years ago they would have come from other parts of Atlantic Canada. The rural areas are dying and they will not be a major source of in-migration to Canadian cities in the future.

I've been to Minnesota and even though it borders Northern Ontario and Manitoba, I can tell you that the accent there is quite different than here.

Another thing I have to point out are the accents the Indigenous peoples may or may not have. It's pretty common to here them here. And I know some Caucasian people who were born and raised in Moosonee but talk as though they are Cree with the accent.

I don't think that the standard Canadian accent in English is going away anytime soon. There will always be some influences to it and it and some things about it will change but it will still be its own thing.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I've been to Minnesota and even though it borders Northern Ontario and Manitoba, I can tell you that the accent there is quite different than here.

Another thing I have to point out are the accents the Indigenous peoples may or may not have. It's pretty common to here them here. And I know some Caucasian people who were born and raised in Moosonee but talk as though they are Cree with the accent.

I don't think that the standard Canadian accent in English is going away anytime soon. There will always be some influences to it and it and some things about it will change but it will still be its own thing.

I find the Minnesota accent to be dead on with that of the Canadian prairies. More so with older generations and in rural areas. This makes sense as a large percentage of the original English speakers in the area came from places like Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota. People from other parts of Canada didn’t arrive in significant numbers until the 70’s.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Doug

I find the Minnesota accent to be dead on with that of the Canadian prairies. More so with older generations and in rural areas. This makes sense as a large percentage of the original English speakers in the area came from places like Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota. People from other parts of Canada didn’t arrive in significant numbers until the 70’s.

I've never noticed that before. I will be visiting the prairies this Summer so I'll listen carefully. I've found the accent in Minnesota to be obviously American and stronger than in Michigan. But I've spent the most time in Duluth of any city there.

I've never noticed people living in the Canadian prairies having a different accent than me. The only exceptions being some Indigenous peoples and those who are Mennonite or Hutterite.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Doug

I find the Minnesota accent to be dead on with that of the Canadian prairies. More so with older generations and in rural areas. This makes sense as a large percentage of the original English speakers in the area came from places like Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota. People from other parts of Canada didn’t arrive in significant numbers until the 70’s.

It may sound similar, but it is not the same. There are clear distinctions in their vowels, and are more similar to the Chicago accent. It is in no way "dead on". And people in North Dakota and Montana have a classic Midwestern American accent, which is different from the classic Canadian accent.

[esquire]

There are obviously varying degrees of intensity but for the most part I'd say MN has a different accent than what is commonly heard throughout MB-SK-AB. As with many regional accents it seems less pronounced among younger people, but certainly if the speaker has grey hair on their head they are generally easy to pick out as Minnesotans.

North Dakotans are less distinctive and in my experience it can be a bit trickier to distinguish them from Canadians, but it is still possible in many cases.

[Acajack]

When the movie Fargo came out a lot of people said that the female police officer character (who was actually from Minnesota, where most of the move is set) sounded Canadian.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When the movie Fargo came out a lot of people said that the female police officer character (who was actually from Minnesota, where most of the move is set) sounded Canadian.

It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't remember that being the case. I thought they used somewhat cartoonishly played-up versions of the Minnesota accent...

[kwoldtimer]

When I lived in DC, I was asked a number of times if I was from Minnesota. On a couple of occasions, my pronunciation of "house" pegged me for folks as Canadian.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

When I lived in DC, I was asked a number of times if I was from Minnesota. On a couple of occasions, my pronunciation of "house" pegged me for folks as Canadian.

There would be a clear distinction between how someone from the Canadian prairies would say that vs. someone from Minnesota. In MN it would elicit the long, nasally "howwwww-se". By contrast, on the prairies, you get the comparatively short, clipped "hus".

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Pinus

And people in North Dakota and Montana have a classic Midwestern American accent...

They most certainly do not. Not even close.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by esquire

There would be a clear distinction between how someone from the Canadian prairies would say that vs. someone from Minnesota. In MN it would elicit the long, nasally "howwwww-se". By contrast, on the prairies, you get the comparatively short, clipped "hus".

That was what I heard back when I was going through Minnesota a lot, stopping for gas in small towns and striking up conversations with all and sundry. Though I never heard the "Fargo" accent there when the movie came out. At first I literally thought that the Cohen brothers were being clever clever with a caricature of a rural Manitoba accent.

Because, being Mennonite with prairie Mennonite classmates (and eventually a girlfriend), I knew quite a lot of Menno kids and made a fair number of visits to the southern Manitoba Menno Belt, to my ear "Fargo" was a whole heckuva lot closer to southern Manitoba than it was to northern Minnesota.

You betcha.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So... how do you guys feel about the Raptors?

We finally have validation from the only source that matters. It's even more impressive when you consider how the Raptors succeeded during an active genocide.

I keep seeing Raptors "north of the 49th parallel" type statements in the media, even Canadian media (which I guess they just copy from their American media feed?). Someday maybe someone will locate Toronto on a map.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by someone123

We finally have validation from the only source that matters. It's even more impressive when you consider how the Raptors succeeded during an active genocide.

2019 in a nutshell, right here!