Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by beyeas

Also, with respect to the comment of their not being a track... that is apparently something that is still on the table. The committee is under pressure to make this as multi-user as possible. I had strongly voiced my opinion that night to the committee that priority needed to go to maximizing the experience for the sports that were most likely to use the facility and that were most likely to be future revenue generators (i.e. soccer and CFL). If you make something that accommodates everyone, you will just end up with it also being a poor design for all uses, as usually happens when you have trade-offs.

I have been thinking about beyeas' comment. I agree with what beyeas stated, however it made me wonder how well a track would fit in a Halifax stadium. A stadium and track would help Halifax to get international events that it couldn't get in the past. I knew that the HRM was bidding on the 2014 North American Indigenous Games (unfortunately it was awarded to Regina instead - http://www.leaderpost.com/sports/Reg...675/story.html). But if Halifax goes ahead and builds a stadium with a track then maybe it will have a better chance of getting events such as the 2018 Commonwealth Games.

I spent a bit of time researching international track dimensions. I found that 400m tracks can vary somewhat in layout to fit multipurpose stadiums - IAAF Technical Manual - refer to page 13/140 of the pdf file.

For FIFA International soccer matches, the field has to be 68m wide by 105m long with 8.5m along each sideline and 10m behind each goal line (85m x 125m in total) - page 66/420 of this online book - http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/develo...011/index.html (it takes several seconds to load, and sometimes it doesn't work, it seems as though the FIFA site is down quite often)

A Canadian football field is in total 450 feet long by 195 feet wide (including the 20 yard endzones) - http://www.sportsknowhow.com/footbal...imensions.html

So I drew the Canadian football field, FIFA soccer field and one suggested layout for a 400m track in SketchUp (below). The sideline seats are only about 12 - 13 feet further from the field than they would be for the required minimum FIFA soccer field dimensions (the FIFA soccer field including the sideline allowance is drawn as a thick black line). The track field layout that I used was the one in figure 1.2.3d on page 15/140 of this document - http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/Comp...web-1_4481.pdf. If the track were a few inches lower than the main soccer and football field then when not in use it could be covered with any suitable artificial turf since it is not part of the actual playing surface - edited (by me) a 5 meter border outside the foul lines must be the same turf as the playing field (it will have to be decided by the HRM whether the main playing field will be artificial turf or natural grass - if artificial turf then very few types qualify for FIFA international soccer matches - http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afde...folder_342.pdf, BMO Field just reverted back to natural grass)

I also downloaded a 3D model from the Google 3D Warehouse of the Missouri State Robert Plaster Stadium grandstand (drawn by username "Missouri State") and slightly modified it so that the large grandstand is on both sides off the field to represent a 25,000 seat stadium. For an open ended stadium it would still be quite compact and for large events such as the Grey Cup, large temporary stands could be put in the endzones over the athletic track section.

Light Green is the FIFA soccer field, the dark black line is the FIFA soccer foul territory allowance (8.5m on each sideline and 10m behind each goal-line)

[c-way-dude]

I have mixed feelings about having a track at the new stadium.
Having a track does force seating to be farther from sidelines than necessary. It forces endzone seating to be much farther from the playing field than necessary. I believe that CFL by-laws require endzone seating to be a minimum 5 yards from the back of the endzone. Only larger events like the Commonwealth Games or the Pan Am Games require much of a stadium, and given recent history, Halifax won't be bidding on either anytime soon.
However, having a track within a stadium seating, say 15k, along the sidelines would allow an opportunity to lower the playing field and drop in quality seating at a relatively cheap price should Halifax ever get a CFL franchise.

[fenwick16]

Permanent endzone seats would be much further from the endzones, but temporary seats could be put over the track like it was at SMU for the CFL exhibition game (below).

(source: originally posted by Empire - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...174940&page=23)

[halifaxboyns]

There have been a few references to Lansdowne Park in this thread. Found this and thought I would post it:

Lansdowne Park zoning appeals dismissed

The Ontario Municipal Board has dismissed a zoning appeal for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park, meaning the city has cleared another hurdle on the massive project.

Three Ottawa residents had asked the OMB to repeal a city by-law that permits a mixed-use redevelopment. The residents argued that the redevelopment plan and the process followed to create it didn't adhere to the city's own official plan.

For example, they said that the site should be getting more green space and that the scale of the development was too large.

The OMB disagreed, saying the city is going to "rejuvenate a blighted area and restore it to its past grandeur," which it said does fit the official plan.

The board also said that what is a gated community now will be opened to the community at large.

The decision brings an end to the OMB appeals of the Lansdowne project.

In April, the city reached a settlement with nine other opponents, agreeing to some height restrictions.

There is still a civil legal challenge by Friends of Lansdowne, however. That court case resumes June 21.

(from CBC)

[Empire]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

There have been a few references to Lansdowne Park in this thread. Found this and thought I would post it:

Lansdowne Park zoning appeals dismissed

The Ontario Municipal Board has dismissed a zoning appeal for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park, meaning the city has cleared another hurdle on the massive project.

Three Ottawa residents had asked the OMB to repeal a city by-law that permits a mixed-use redevelopment. The residents argued that the redevelopment plan and the process followed to create it didn't adhere to the city's own official plan.

For example, they said that the site should be getting more green space and that the scale of the development was too large.

The OMB disagreed, saying the city is going to "rejuvenate a blighted area and restore it to its past grandeur," which it said does fit the official plan.

The board also said that what is a gated community now will be opened to the community at large.

The decision brings an end to the OMB appeals of the Lansdowne project.

In April, the city reached a settlement with nine other opponents, agreeing to some height restrictions.

There is still a civil legal challenge by Friends of Lansdowne, however. That court case resumes June 21.

(from CBC)

Did Phil Pacey move to Ottawa?

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Empire

Did Phil Pacey move to Ottawa?

Almost fell out of my chair laughing... Good stuff Empire.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Empire

Did Phil Pacey move to Ottawa?

If only he and the rest of the crew could take a vacation...or move...

[beyeas]

only move that would make them happy is to move back to the 1800s.
Barring that, my suggestion would be... Louisburg.

[wespidel]

Canada will play Germany June 26th in front of a sell out crowd of 70,000 fans, in Germany the host country!

[fenwick16]

That is interesting news wespidel.

For those of us who were unable to be at the stadium open houses, there is an interesting document at the halifax.ca stadium website that was presented at the open houses - slideshow presentation. It indicates that the HRM is considering a mid-scale stadium in the 10,000 - 30,000 seat range (a wide range).

[Empire]

Rally calling for Mayor Kelly's resignation set for next week
Facebook site Peter Kelly — Resign Now has more than 270 members .Email.more
More about Halifax City Hall
Council split over censure vote
. ‘Kangaroo court’ divides council
. Cases made against, for council reduction
. Police probe ruled out
.Rally

A rally to demand Mayor Peter Kelly’s resignation is scheduled for June 28 at 5:30 p.m. at Victoria Park on the corner of Spring Garden Road and South Park Street.

JENNIFER TAPLIN WITH FILES FROM PHILIP CROUCHER
METRO HALIFAX
Published: June 21, 2011 12:20 p.m.
Last modified: June 22, 2011 4:57 a.m.

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Text size A public rally demanding the mayor’s resignation is taking shape.

Russell Gragg, spokesman for the citizens’ group Step Down Kelly, said he couldn’t speculate on what kinds of crowds will attend a rally next Tuesday.

“I would simply say if every HRM citizen who feels like Mayor (Peter) Kelly has acted unethically and dishonestly came out, we’d be looking at tens of thousands,” he said.


Kelly said the rally is just part of democracy.

“In a democracy people are allowed to bring forth whatever views and perspectives they deem appropriate. That’s why democracy is the greatest form of government,” he told reporters yesterday.

Kelly has repeatedly said he won’t resign over the cash-advance scandal, which broke in March, when it was discovered public funds were advanced to a concert promoter.

An administrator cut the cheques, and Kelly said he didn’t know it was against policy.

He told reporters he won’t bow to the demands of the public rally because there are too many projects going on right now, like the stadium study and the proposed convention centre.

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/loca...-s-resignation

[wespidel]

What was indicated to me by a good reliable source who is totally involved and has a big role in the advisory committee, was if their was a CFL partner currently at the table they would be looking to build a CFL model multi purpose stadium with the ability to expand permanently and temporarily to stage the first ever Grey Cup game in Atlantic Canada. But unfortunately they don`t have a partner at this stage so apparently that is why they are leading towards a 30 million dollar 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium which will be basicly a free replacement facility for Saint Marys which I totally disagree with.

My point, which I expressed to this same person, was if Winnipeg even though they have a very rich NHL owner, but didn`t have a NHL model sizable arena available to them, they would have not received a NHL franchise.

I believe it all comes down to Premier Dexter and his support and I also believe that this type of inadequate smaller facility will not be excepted by Peter MacKay if Halifax wants to build it at the Shannon Park site, which was also expressed to me by another city councillor who is not on the committee. So there are a lot of councillors who are in support of a major stadium versus a small Sue Uteck special which she is pushing for and has stated on radio.


If Halifax does win the 25 billion dollar shipbuilding contract despite not having a conservative seat in HRM, but we do have Peter MacKay, who I believe is a lot more important than one federal conservative seat in Metro, plus coupled with the 500 million dollar World Convention Centre project if PM Harper supports the project which should be known in a few weeks or less. I believe if Premier Dexter were to commit now to support a major CFL model stadium in Halifax, Ottawa would be more interested in supporting the new Convention, Hotel and Financial Centre project and probably would approve their 47 million dollar ask, if Premier Dexter would guarantee Ottawa that he would contribute the same amount or more to build a real FIFA legacy type stadium, that would be able to attract the 10th CFL franchise and bring the first Grey Cup game ever to Atlantic Canada. I believe there are so many more benefits and opportunities for all for Halifax to build a major stadium versus a 30 million dollar 10 to 15 thousand permanent seat stadium that will not attract a professional sports franchise or bring major events to the largest city in Atlantic Canada.

WHAT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE FOR HALIFAX AND THE REGION WOULD BE THAT PREMIER DEXTER ANNOUNCES TWO BIG PROJECTS FOR THE CITY OF HALIFAX, A NEW WORLD TRADE CONVENTION CENTRE AND A NEW MODERN CFL MODEL MULTI PURPOSE STADIUM!



PS. By the way check out the Winnipeg Blue Bomber stadium photos and stadium web cam on CFL.ca, it`s quite a structure!

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by wespidel

My point, which I expressed to this same person, was if Winnipeg even though they have a very rich NHL owner, but didn`t have a NHL model sizable arena available to them, they would have not received a NHL franchise.

While it has turned out that MTSC will work for hosting an NHL team, I do not believe it was initially built with the expressed intent of doing so. Several alterations are currently being made to the building to bring it up to those standards, and while they believe the size of the building will be sufficient, I recall Chipman expressing regret that the capacity couldn't have been increased a bit.

[wespidel]

Two great facilities in Winnipeg! I`m really impressed with the new Bomber stadium. Any news when they are going to post photos of the new completed model of the stadium on the Bomber site which management said they would.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Two great facilities in Winnipeg! I`m really impressed with the new Bomber stadium. Any news when they are going to post photos of the new completed model of the stadium on the Bomber site which management said they would.

I'm not from Winnipeg and the Jets aren't my team - if anything I'm already starting to find their fans a bit obnoxious.

But...thanks?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

I'm not from Winnipeg and the Jets aren't my team - if anything I'm already starting to find their fans a bit obnoxious.

But...thanks?

I believe that you are from Calgary? If so, how do you think an economical stadium such as McMahon Stadium would work in Halifax? I read that the original 22,000 seats were built in 1960 for $1 million dollars - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon_Stadium

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I believe that you are from Calgary? If so, how do you think an economical stadium such as McMahon Stadium would work in Halifax? I read that the original 22,000 seats were built in 1960 for $1 million dollars - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon_Stadium

I grew up in Calgary, I haven't really spent much time there in the last decade, though. Honestly the only times I've even seen McMahon have been from driving past it, I don't like football all that much.

That said, it's a pretty bare-bones stadium that AFAICT has worked for the city, but I would think an expansion of the endzones might be overdue given how much the city has grown. I don't really see any reason why a smaller version of it wouldn't fit here.

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I believe that you are from Calgary? If so, how do you think an economical stadium such as McMahon Stadium would work in Halifax? I read that the original 22,000 seats were built in 1960 for $1 million dollars - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon_Stadium

I live in calgary and have for the past 8 years and find nothing wrong with it at all ,I always have a good time there (maybe the beer?) my only complaint was at the heritage classic this year I missed the better part of a period waiting on food and montreal lost

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

I live in calgary and have for the past 8 years and find nothing wrong with it at all ,I always have a good time there (maybe the beer?) my only complaint was at the heritage classic this year I missed the better part of a period waiting on food and montreal lost

Thanks for the information. The next time that you go to McMahon Stadium could you get some pictures. I have been able to find pictures of the stands and field on the internet, but I have been unable to find interior concourse pictures. If you could get such pictures of the interior then it would be informative for all of us (maybe even some stadium advisory committee members will see the pictures). I think the more information presented the better.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

my only complaint was at the heritage classic this year I missed the better part of a period waiting on food and montreal lost

That's too bad... about the food wait that is.