Odds of French language growth/revival in Louisiana cities?

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Oui,oui, we voted in a president to build us a wall, y'all.

To expand on The Wall[s] already funded and built by Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush etc.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Obviously the situation is not the same as in French Canada (Quebec, New Brunswick or even Francophone areas in other regional parts of Canada) with official government support, but do you think Louisiana French can either maintain itself or grow in the near to long term future in similar ways?

Do people moving to any of Louisiana's cities (I'm guessing the bigger ones probably not, but maybe those in smaller ones) ever learn French to fit in to the locals?

Or do you think the French language influence in Louisiana is destined to decline, or at least only be maintained at a "token", symbolic level, rather than living language of a large proportion of the masses, like how relatively few in Ireland really want to speak Irish fluently instead of English but still use its words and names on streets and places proudly?

Consider Mobile... older than New Orleans. Sure, its Mardi Gras celebration is older than that of New Orleans, but it is still a product of French colonialism.

If you were to take a stroll through Mobile's downtown, you'd certainly see some French, or otherwise European, influences. However, to the extent that Mobile has developed and grown over the past 300 years, there is little evidence of a French speaking population.

I think the French language will continue to see a decline in speakers in Louisiana. There will always be a certain number of people who speak a certain Creole, but in the end it will never be of significant French influence.

[Rico Rommheim]

Odds of French language growth/revival in Louisiana cities?

Absurd.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Sounds like xenophobes up there.

Compared to whom?

[Acajack]

When I've been in Louisiana, upon learning that I speak French I've had locals go to great lengths to find me someone who can speak French with me - though I can get along in English just fine.

It's happened on more than one occasion so I guess it's a "thing" for some. Trying to demonstrate that French isn't completely dead there, I guess.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The North One

This is exactly what I was going to type.

Quebec tries with every fiber of their being to keep the French going and still struggles.

"Struggles" is probably too strong a term. French is pretty vibrant in Quebec even if it never really can be said to be "home free" given the context. I could give some examples but this thread is about Louisiana, not Quebec.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Compared to whom?

Jokes man.

Just saying trying to preserve your culture and language are selectively considered bad in the West.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Jokes man.

Just saying trying to preserve your culture and language are selectively considered bad in the West.

OK thanks. I guess both our posts were probably too short for the other to truly get the "gist".

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Acajack

OK thanks. I guess both our posts were probably too short for the other to truly get the "gist".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Top 10 languages spoken at home in America:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langua..._United_States

What is surprising to me is relatively low numbers for basically all languages except Spanish.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

we had native french speakers until the second world war.

That was quite a severe humiliation to the entire French-speaking world indeed.

Even something more or less personal to all of us in France proper. Like you have no idea.
For instance, my grandpa was a professional military; a graduate from Saint-Cyr, a prestigious military school while he was only born to a poor Swiss worker (a slater) and a humble woman from the French Alps. His father killed himself from falling down from a roof when he still was a kid.
Nevertheless, he was brave, good at math and studying, and had to do a whole lot of efforts to get there and become a military officer. He is the best of our family in my opinion. A real generous and faithful hard worker and all.
And then... He spent almost 5 years in a motherfucking Nazi prison. The Germans wouldn't trust French captains like grandpa, so they strictly kept them locked in prison.
When he came back from Germany in 1945, he was as skinny as a martyred Jew, traumatized. He simply never talked about that, cause it was too humiliating.
He just left the military to lead an engineering career. That was much better for him.
There was no more food in Germany as of 1944, so you may figure how prisoners were treated...

Hey, you're not alone in the world. Everybody has a painful story somehow, anyhow.

Bah, no one cares anymore anyway. Not even my grandpa. The Germans just finally had their revenge, as Napoleon's army had severely humiliated them before.
The Germans are nothing much impressive to us. Only our neighbors.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What is surprising to me is relatively low numbers for basically all languages except Spanish.

Yeah, in a country of 330 million, the only non-Spanish language to hit over 1% of the population would be all varieties of Chinese put together at 3.5 million.

Essentially, if you are a speaker of anything other than English or Spanish at home (and maybe one of the Chinese languages, depending on how they mutually understand one another), less than 1 in 100 Americans share your situation. For even many of the world's languages Russian, French, Arabic, German etc., given that the number of speakers is around 1 million stateside, it's like 1 in 200 to 300 people who share your linguistic upbringing in the US. Which does seem kind of low.

Of course, the languages are obviously clustered together geographically. But the stats make me realize why some (especially non-urban, or non-majorly Hispanic area) Americans are so unused to hearing another language around, and why some people bristle at hearing a non-English conversation in the public sphere and perceive it as "not American" (not saying it's justified).

I guess it's just my bias, being very urban in upbringing and having spent nearly all my life in cities (and this is only in the US and Canada I'm talking about; I've not really lived anywhere like Europe where multilingualism is common) where overhearing conversations by strangers in a motley mix of tongues on the bus, on the phone, or in the mall is part and parcel of daily life.

Despite not really being natively fluent in any language other than English, I've never found it strange or "un-American" or "un-Canadian" to be surrounded by a multitude of languages around me, be it by co-workers, classmates, or people at the doctor's office.

[Acajack]

According to the ACS in 2017, the most common languages spoken at home by people aged five years of age or older are as follows:

English only – 239 million
Spanish – 41 million
Chinese (including Mandarin and Cantonese) – 3.5 million
Tagalog (including Filipino) – 1.7 million
Vietnamese – 1.5 million
Arabic – 1.2 million
French – 1.2 million
Korean – 1.1 million
Russian – 0.94 million
German – 0.92 million

For the sake of comparison, Canada out of approx. 37 million people has 1.3 million speaking Chinese languages at home, and over 500,000 each of Tagalog, Spanish, Arabic and Punjabi.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Yeah, in a country of 330 million, the only non-Spanish language to hit over 1% of the population would be all varieties of Chinese put together at 3.5 million.

Essentially, if you are a speaker of anything other than English or Spanish at home (and maybe one of the Chinese languages, depending on how they mutually understand one another), less than 1 in 100 Americans share your situation. For even many of the world's languages Russian, French, Arabic, German etc., given that the number of speakers is around 1 million stateside, it's like 1 in 200 to 300 people who share your linguistic upbringing in the US. Which does seem kind of low.

Of course, the languages are obviously clustered together geographically. But the stats make me realize why some (especially non-urban, or non-majorly Hispanic area) Americans are so unused to hearing another language around, and why some people bristle at hearing a non-English conversation in the public sphere and perceive it as "not American" (not saying it's justified).

I guess it's just my bias, being very urban in upbringing and having spent nearly all my life in cities (and this is only in the US and Canada I'm talking about; I've not really lived anywhere like Europe where multilingualism is common) where overhearing conversations by strangers in a motley mix of tongues on the bus, on the phone, or in the mall is part and parcel of daily life.

Despite not really being natively fluent in any language other than English, I've never found it strange or "un-American" or "un-Canadian" to be surrounded by a multitude of languages around me, be it by co-workers, classmates, or people at the doctor's office.

If you want to get ahead in this world and especially in America, you have to speak English, fluently.

Also, notice that 239 million speak English only. Of those 41 million Spanish speakers, it's within reason to say that 75%-85% are fluent in English as well.

[Urbanguy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

According to the ACS in 2017, the most common languages spoken at home by people aged five years of age or older are as follows:

English only – 239 million
Spanish – 41 million
Chinese (including Mandarin and Cantonese) – 3.5 million
Tagalog (including Filipino) – 1.7 million
Vietnamese – 1.5 million
Arabic – 1.2 million
French – 1.2 million
Korean – 1.1 million
Russian – 0.94 million
German – 0.92 million

For the sake of comparison, Canada out of approx. 37 million people has 1.3 million speaking Chinese languages at home, and over 500,000 each of Tagalog, Spanish, Arabic and Punjabi.

^That looks like figures for mother tongue (which is not the same as language spoken at home) with the Canadian figures you've stated. According to the 2016 Canada Census of Language Spoken Most Often at Home Link

Chinese languages: 913,365
Tagalog: 213,790
Spanish: 263,510
Arabic: 223,540
Punjabi: 349,140

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Urbanguy

^That looks like figures for mother tongue (which is not the same as language spoken at home) with the Canadian figures you've stated. According to the 2016 Canada Census of Language Spoken Most Often at Home Link

Chinese languages: 913,365
Tagalog: 213,790
Spanish: 263,510
Arabic: 223,540
Punjabi: 349,140

I was sure this was languages spoken at home (that's what I was looking for). Could I be mistaken?

In any event, they'd still be fairly highly totals for a country that has about the same population as California.

[Urbanguy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was sure this was languages spoken at home (that's what I was looking for). Could I be mistaken?

In any event, they'd still be fairly highly totals for a country that has about the same population as California.

^You found mother tongue which is a somewhat archaic term, the US Census used to used that too which is more closely aligned with what you identify with the most in regards to ancestry and culture.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Urbanguy

^You found mother tongue which is a somewhat archaic term, the US Census used to used that too which is more closely aligned with what you identify with the most in regards to ancestry and culture.

OK. In Canada's that is still a fairly important metric.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What is surprising to me is relatively low numbers for basically all languages except Spanish.

spanish speakers are the only ones who've recently immigrated to the US in sufficient numbers to kind of "take over" certain areas where learning english isn't terribly important. most other immigrant groups push themselves and, more importantly, their children to learn english so that they can succeed in american society, often to the detriment of keeping the mother tongue alive.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

spanish speakers are the only ones who've recently immigrated to the US in sufficient numbers to kind of "take over" certain areas where learning english isn't terribly important. most other immigrant groups push themselves and, more importantly, their children to learn english so that they can succeed in american society, often to the detriment of keeping the mother tongue alive.

But you'd think you'd see a similar shedding of immigrant languages in Canada too, since our society is similarly structured to yours - with the notable exception of enclaves (sometimes quite large) dominated by Hispanics.

Though it's also true that Canada has a higher percentage of its population that is foreign-born.