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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 2:16 PM
Larry King Larry King is online now
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Is Master's Street north of Norris? Or is the streetscape of this development also marred by those hideous lightposts the city spent $14 million on instead of taking care of real, legitimate needs of North Broad? I think the Master's is well before Norris, and the lightposts go past this development up through Temple's area.
The posts go all the way up to glenwood, past temple's campus and stops right before the medical campus.
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 3:05 PM
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The posts go all the way up to glenwood, past temple's campus and stops right before the medical campus.
Ugh. I like this particular development, though. Glad to see it moving forward.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Is Master's Street north of Norris? Or is the streetscape of this development also marred by those hideous lightposts the city spent $14 million on instead of taking care of real, legitimate needs of North Broad? I think the Master's is well before Norris, and the lightposts go past this development up through Temple's area.
The city didn't initiate or fund most of the project and it was a transportation project so it's not like you could take the money and just build something on North Broad or whatever you are proposing. Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of the light posts the purpose was stated. You have to start somewhere to upgrade the corridor and the thinking was creating the unique lighting and some landscaping and sidewalk repairs would be a first step to attract more interest from the private sector. I'm not saying it will work, but apparently the co developer of the Divine Lorraine thought it was a unique and positive change to North Broad.
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 5:48 PM
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The city didn't initiate or fund most of the project and it was a transportation project so it's not like you could take the money and just build something on North Broad or whatever you are proposing. Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of the light posts the purpose was stated. You have to start somewhere to upgrade the corridor and the thinking was creating the unique lighting and some landscaping and sidewalk repairs would be a first step to attract more interest from the private sector. I'm not saying it will work, but apparently the co developer of the Divine Lorraine thought it was a unique and positive change to North Broad.
I don't want to start a battle over this issue, and we're pretty off-topic anyway. But I'm not sure why you think Blumenfeld and Procida's Divine Lorraine project was not planned well before these "lightpost" plans were finalized (and perhaps before they were envisioned). Eric has long talked about revitalizing North Broad. He first took steps some time ago -- around 2006 -- when renovating 640 N. Broad, the building that holds Vetri. And he had bought the Divine Lorraine by 2012. I have not heard any other developers praise the lightposts as a draw for them.

South Broad was once similarly disinvested, and it was transformed because Avenue of the Arts organization spent money on new sidewalks, brick crosswalks, planters, and much cheaper pedestrian-scale streetlights. The sidewalks on parts of North Broad have been reduced to gravel. Trash and abandoned cars pile up in vacant lots. The light posts were designed to be "art." Even if someone (inexplicably to me) thinks they look good, that money could have been spent on much more practical initiatives that would have done much more to make the streetscape cleaner, better lit, and nearer to reasonably attractive.

I'm also not sure how this was a transportation project. It was managed by Philadelphia's Department of Commerce and Streets in conjunction with Avenue of the Arts North and also involved (poorly executed and funded) landscaping and greening.

I'll move on from this now...
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 6:24 PM
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The sidewalks on parts of North Broad have been reduced to gravel. Trash and abandoned cars pile up in vacant lots. The light posts were designed to be "art." Even if someone (inexplicably to me) thinks they look good, that money could have been spent on much more practical initiatives that would have done much more to make the streetscape cleaner, better lit, and nearer to reasonably attractive.
....

While north broad is not a fabulous blvd like it should be, it most certainly is not what you describe. Abandoned cars piled up? Sidewalks reduced to rumble? lol what? I guess you choose to not see the hundreds of trees they have planted the past two years or the dozens of planters boxes? Once your below Spruce on South Broad, it might as well be North Broad. North Broad just has better restaurants.

North Broad needs a lot of work but in this day and age, it's no Leigh Ave.

1487 would know better than me but I am pretty sure the poles came from a grant that was released in 2008 before the recession.

Also as a final note, North Broad is one of the few streets that does get cleaned outside of Center City
Great article from Curbed: http://philly.curbed.com/2016/12/14/...n-philadelphia

It's a start!

Last edited by TempleGuy1000; Dec 21, 2016 at 7:02 PM.
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
I don't want to start a battle over this issue, and we're pretty off-topic anyway. But I'm not sure why you think Blumenfeld and Procida's Divine Lorraine project was not planned well before these "lightpost" plans were finalized (and perhaps before they were envisioned). Eric has long talked about revitalizing North Broad. He first took steps some time ago -- around 2006 -- when renovating 640 N. Broad, the building that holds Vetri. And he had bought the Divine Lorraine by 2012. I have not heard any other developers praise the lightposts as a draw for them.

South Broad was once similarly disinvested, and it was transformed because Avenue of the Arts organization spent money on new sidewalks, brick crosswalks, planters, and much cheaper pedestrian-scale streetlights. The sidewalks on parts of North Broad have been reduced to gravel. Trash and abandoned cars pile up in vacant lots. The light posts were designed to be "art." Even if someone (inexplicably to me) thinks they look good, that money could have been spent on much more practical initiatives that would have done much more to make the streetscape cleaner, better lit, and nearer to reasonably attractive.

I'm also not sure how this was a transportation project. It was managed by Philadelphia's Department of Commerce and Streets in conjunction with Avenue of the Arts North and also involved (poorly executed and funded) landscaping and greening.

I'll move on from this now...
the funding was mostly state and federal. The city rarely provides the bulk of the funding for these types of projects and 611 is a state road so PennDOT is the lead agency for improvements. If I'm not mistaken, PennDot actually bid the project. As I said, regardless of what anyone thinks you can't just redirect capital transportation/streetscape funds to remove abandoned cars or graffiti- doesn't work like that. So at the end of the day there would be a project like this or no project at all- it's not about choosing between this and launching a street cleaning service for Broad Street. Lots of areas of Philly could use street cleaning, nothing special about North Broad in that regard. It's a separate issue that has no bearing on whether or not the lights were installed.
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  #27  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000 View Post
....

While north broad is not a fabulous blvd like it should be, it most certainly is not what you describe. Abandoned cars piled up? Sidewalks reduced to rumble? lol what? I guess you choose to not see the hundreds of trees they have planted the past two years or the dozens of planters boxes? Once your below Spruce on South Broad, it might as well be North Broad. North Broad just has better restaurants.

North Broad needs a lot of work but in this day and age, it's no Leigh Ave.

1487 would know better than me but I am pretty sure the poles came from a grant that was released in 2008 before the recession.
good point on south broad. It's nice from City Hall to Locust or Spruce, then it starts to fall off rapidly. And many of the improvements made in the 90s need to be spruced up because they are looking worn and torn.

There were a variety of funding sources for the project, I think it may have gotten a TIGER grant. And as you noted, there were trees, planters and sidewalk, curb improvements made so it's not a matter of spending $14M "only" on light poles.
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000 View Post
....

While north broad is not a fabulous blvd like it should be, it most certainly is not what you describe. Abandoned cars piled up? Sidewalks reduced to rumble? lol what? I guess you choose to not see the hundreds of trees they have planted the past two years or the dozens of planters boxes? Once your below Spruce on South Broad, it might as well be North Broad. North Broad just has better restaurants.

North Broad needs a lot of work but in this day and age, it's no Leigh Ave.

1487 would know better than me but I am pretty sure the poles came from a grant that was released in 2008 before the recession.

Also as a final note, North Broad is one of the few streets that does get cleaned outside of Center City
Great article from Curbed: http://philly.curbed.com/2016/12/14/...n-philadelphia

It's a start!
Don't make me learn to load photos on here so I can document my evidence. Actually, that wouldn't be a bad thing. I walk around center city to check out projects all the time so should probably take a few moments to figure out how to deal with photos on this site and share things.

I'm not saying North Broad is some dystopian hellscape, and some stretches are in much better shape than others. But there are definitely spots were the sidewalk is almost falling apart, lots of trash in some vacant lots, and pretty sure I have seen some abandoned cars...I've seen the trees and planter boxes and they are good moves in the right direction (though a lot of the planters are used as glorified trashcans; Melissa Romero of curbed just noted this, and I think had some pictures in the article)
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 1487 View Post
the funding was mostly state and federal. The city rarely provides the bulk of the funding for these types of projects and 611 is a state road so PennDOT is the lead agency for improvements. If I'm not mistaken, PennDot actually bid the project. As I said, regardless of what anyone thinks you can't just redirect capital transportation/streetscape funds to remove abandoned cars or graffiti- doesn't work like that. So at the end of the day there would be a project like this or no project at all- it's not about choosing between this and launching a street cleaning service for Broad Street. Lots of areas of Philly could use street cleaning, nothing special about North Broad in that regard. It's a separate issue that has no bearing on whether or not the lights were installed.
Perhaps you're right. But you're saying that if less money had been used for the lightposts, there's nothing more useless it could have been used for within the scope of the mandate/designation? Anyway, I guess it's a moot point now, and I should stop talking about it on this thread.
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  #30  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Don't make me learn to load photos on here so I can document my evidence. Actually, that wouldn't be a bad thing. I walk around center city to check out projects all the time so should probably take a few moments to figure out how to deal with photos on this site and share things.

I'm not saying North Broad is some dystopian hellscape, and some stretches are in much better shape than others. But there are definitely spots were the sidewalk is almost falling apart, lots of trash in some vacant lots, and pretty sure I have seen some abandoned cars...I've seen the trees and planter boxes and they are good moves in the right direction (though a lot of the planters are used as glorified trashcans; Melissa Romero of curbed just noted this, and I think had some pictures in the article)
dont see relevance between your comments and the light posts. North Broad could use a street cleaning service. No argument there. Not having the lights wouldn't have changed that reality. As for abandoned cars, that's the city's responsibility regardless of where they appear. I've not seen any special car problem along north broad. North Broad's issues are too many vacant lots, too much litter and too many auto centric commercial establishments. Private development is going to have to fix much of that.
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  #31  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2016, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Perhaps you're right. But you're saying that if less money had been used for the lightposts, there's nothing more useless it could have been used for within the scope of the mandate/designation? Anyway, I guess it's a moot point now, and I should stop talking about it on this thread.
It was a lighting and streetscape project. Not sure how you remove lighting from such a project. Many would argue that fancy lights of ANY kind on any major thoroughfare aren't really worthwhile investments when there are more pressing needs in a city. These lights are no more or less useful than any other decorative or retro themed lights installed around the city over the past 20 years.
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2016, 5:47 AM
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North Broad needs to have a coordinated remake. Seems to me, putting a long term vision for the corridor would attract developers. It needs to develop a more pedestrian friendly atmosphere. Develop a distinctive look. Intersections should have a strong pedestrian emphasis. Intersections should have distinctive pavings and crosswalks. The intersections where there are subway stations need particular attention.
Attract development above subway stations by offering incentives, such as less height restrictions in exchange for integrated and improved station entrances. It needs to develop a sense of space. Investment brings investment. North Broad, from City Hall thru Temple (later to No Philly) should be a priority investment for the city. This should be the poster child for complete streets in Philly.

Last edited by SEFTA; Dec 22, 2016 at 8:58 PM.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2016, 8:26 PM
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North Broad needs to have a coordinated remake. Seems to me, putting a long term vision for the corridor would attract developers. It needs to develop a more pedestrian friendly atmosphere. Develop a distinctive look. Intersections should have a strong pedestrian. Intersections should have distinctive pavings and crosswalks. The intersections where there are subway stations need particular attention.
Attract development above subway stations by offering incentives, such as less height restrictions in exchange for integrated and improved station entrances. It needs to develop a sense of space. Investment brings investment. North Broad, from city Hall thru Temple should be a priority investment for the city. This should be the poster child for complete streets in Philly.
Agree completely. The urban fabric should be seamless from Center City to Temple University. This is one of the major areas I hope the city can tackle as a long-term initiative, kind of like they did in UCity. Another would be Delaware River waterfront development, along with I-95 capping.
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SEFTA View Post
North Broad needs to have a coordinated remake. Seems to me, putting a long term vision for the corridor would attract developers. It needs to develop a more pedestrian friendly atmosphere. Develop a distinctive look. Intersections should have a strong pedestrian emphasis. Intersections should have distinctive pavings and crosswalks. The intersections where there are subway stations need particular attention.
Attract development above subway stations by offering incentives, such as less height restrictions in exchange for integrated and improved station entrances. It needs to develop a sense of space. Investment brings investment. North Broad, from City Hall thru Temple (later to No Philly) should be a priority investment for the city. This should be the poster child for complete streets in Philly.
well in fairness development from Arch to Fairmount is taking place as we speak and has come a long way in the last 10 years. It's not like we have stagnation. The 1300 Fairmount project will be significant as well. There were proposals for special services district around Temple but I don't think it got enough support from residents/businesses in the area that would've faced surcharge to make it happen.
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 8:12 PM
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An upgrade to the streetscape would promote the area. It just needs more emphasis on the pedestrian experience, particularly at, and because of the string of subway stations. Promote high-rises over the stations with the stipulation that stations are modernized and better integrated.
I would go as far as to say that Spring Garden Street could also use a major "Complet Street" makeover. From river to river.
It's because these streets are attracting attention and development, that they should be nurtured.
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2016, 9:00 PM
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An upgrade to the streetscape would promote the area. It just needs more emphasis on the pedestrian experience, particularly at, and because of the string of subway stations. Promote high-rises over the stations with the stipulation that stations are modernized and better integrated.
I would go as far as to say that Spring Garden Street could also use a major "Complet Street" makeover. From river to river.
It's because these streets are attracting attention and development, that they should be nurtured.
There are efforts underway to eventually revamp spring garden with bike lanes, improvements, etc. I don't know how far along it is currently though. As with many such projects funding is the key
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 1:10 PM
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foundation permit issued for this tower
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 2:37 PM
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Pictures on the front page of this one have disappeared.
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2017, 8:32 PM
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Equipment is now on-site! The fence has also been extended further onto North Broad:



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  #40  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2017, 1:43 AM
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Once again, equipment is on site. This time, however, we have something a lot heavier! Let's hope that this will translate into an excavation soon, as I'm really excited to see something rise on North Broad (especially north of Girard)!



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