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  #41  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 10:15 PM
lightrail lightrail is offline
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Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
wow....i am truly impressed....this is a very sensible plan! well done! and i love the Surrey part!
Thanks - when I look at the map - some other connections jump out at me. Like, extending RapidBus X3 east to Chilliwack; extending RapidBus X2 north from Brentwood to Kootenay and over the Second Narrows to Capilano College; a new RapidBus connection from Guildford to Coquitlam, and a new RapidBus from Park Royal to Capilano College.

Have to stop somewhere I suppose.

Wonder what the bill for this plan would be? And could Translink get operating rights over the railway lines from Waterfront to South Surrey?
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  #42  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 10:20 PM
lightrail lightrail is offline
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Originally Posted by Nutterbug View Post
Why get rid of the looparound Millenium Line?

Why not extend the south of Fraser WCE line to Abbotsford and perhaps even Chilliwack?

Anyways, good (albeit time wasting) job.
I ditched the loop-around because of operating logistics - it would be a nightmare slotting trains into their paths in two locations (Columbia and Lougheed) and still keep the trains running on a tight schedule.

If you look at Google Earth, you'll see the track from Langley to Abbotsford is quite bendy - it looks slow and it doesn't go through any built up areas. The extension of the North Fraser line from Mission seems to make more sense and use RapidBuses south of the Fraser river.

For Chilliwack - I can't see there being demand for a metro style train - bus - yes and even thought I should have extended the rapid bus to Chilliwack.

Even Whistler is a stretch, but I could see a couple commuter runs in the AM and PM and a couple of mid-day trips to serve Whistler market.


Time wasting? If you have fun doing something, it's not a waste of time. No worse than playing computer games or other activities.
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  #43  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 10:31 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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They could build new rail between Langley and Abbotsford if enough riders would make it viable. And it wouldn't just serve the Vancouver bound traffic, but also the Surrey and New Westminster bound traffic as well.

As for Whistler, they should just have one early morning train to Whistler and one evening train back to serve the skiiers and Whistler employees. There should be two or three runs from Squamish to Vancouver in the morning and back in the afternoon rush hours.

Also, any chance the White Rock WCE could be extended into Bellingham?
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  #44  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 10:39 PM
deasine deasine is offline
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Originally Posted by Nutterbug View Post
Also, any chance the White Rock WCE could be extended into Bellingham?
That would most likely be next to impossible: at least for sure you and me wouldn't be able to see it in our lifetime.
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  #45  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 10:58 PM
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That would most likely be next to impossible: at least for sure you and me wouldn't be able to see it in our lifetime.
They could do what they do with the Amtrak Cascades, but in reverse. Have the one stop on the US side with all the customs and immigrations at Bellingham, as opposed to Pacific Central.
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  #46  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 10:59 PM
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Great job lightrail! I like it. I could suggest a few little things but all in all a great job. Extending and improving the West Coast Express to the Fraser Valley, Langley, White Rock and the Howe Sound corridor are ideas that are long overdue in my opinion.

This plan could be doable, the stumbling block now is the Fraser River Rail Bridge at New Westminster. It need to be replaced by a double track tunnel to enable faster regional, commuter, and long distance trains to access the Vancouver central core.
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  #47  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 11:01 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Originally Posted by mattropolis View Post
Great job lightrail! I like it. I could suggest a few little things but all in all a great job. Extending and improving the West Coast Express to the Fraser Valley, Langley, White Rock and the Howe Sound corridor are ideas that are long overdue in my opinion.

This plan could be doable, the stumbling block now is the Fraser River Rail Bridge at New Westminster. It need to be replaced by a double track tunnel to enable faster regional, commuter, and long distance trains to access the Vancouver central core.
Those rail lines can serve as feeders that terminate at the Scott Road Skytrain station, until either a double tracked rail tunnel or high bridge is built.
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  #48  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 11:26 PM
cornholio cornholio is offline
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Great map.
My only suggestion would be to include a rapid bus from 22nd street station to Bridgehouse station(or Richmond center). It could be a upgrade of the current express buses that go over Queensborough bridge and then down 91. I also question the ridership that some of the south of the Fraser commuter trains would get when they would probably find it hard to compete with some of the rapid bus networks. I mean im sure there would be some demand for a comfortable one seat ride to Vancouver and several other key destinations but I just dont see anything more than one or two trains in the morning rush and afternoon rush. For example a rapid bus from White Rock to the Canada line would probably cut the time to get to downtown in half compared to the train service.(remember that a majority of the tracks prevent trains from going much faster then 50-60km phr and the route is not very direct. A rapid bus on the other hand can do a 100km phr using a direct route down the highway.

On the other hand I very much like a express service from Scott Road(assuming a new train tunnel is built) to downtown with a few key stops. This would be a amazing addition to our transportation network and travel times would be cut significantly for allot of people. I can see that stretch being expanded, electrified and all grade separated(some of the tracks could be moved for example to the south side of Burnaby lake etc.).
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  #49  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 12:19 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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Oh forgot to mention this earlier, I love the X1 X2 route numbering thing for RapidBus. I'll be posting my version as soon as I possibly can. So much hw and tests for me lately X_X
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  #50  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lightrail View Post
thought i'd bump this awesome map onto the next page here.

okay, this is truly inspired. the sea bus route expansions would be a tough sell (but the park royal one as as the hub of a whistler wce expansion is a very very good idea, and i love the idea of a new waterfront station seabus hub as part of a larger port redevelopment project), and i bet you a dollar that be have a 33rd avenue station built out within 10 years on the c-line. but your evergreen/millenium line reorientation is clever and very well considered (assuming the e-line goes with skytrain technology), your brts look great and the wce expansions are spot on - you've grown the system by 10-12 years at a nice pace, with a really canny sense of how the region will develop. honestly, i look at this and i feel like i'm looking at an actual system map from around 2018-2020.

top notch work!

Last edited by flight_from_kamakura; Apr 21, 2008 at 4:09 AM.
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  #51  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by lightrail View Post
I ditched the loop-around because of operating logistics - it would be a nightmare slotting trains into their paths in two locations (Columbia and Lougheed) and still keep the trains running on a tight schedule.
It's doable, London does it (with driver-operated trains too!). In fact, its what they're planning for the current expansion.

Also, I think you need better East-West transit in the southern areas. A Surrey-Richmond or New West-Richmond express bus would greatly speed up commutes for people along those routes.

otherwise, nice job.
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  #52  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 4:07 AM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Seabuses are slow. They're not much good for long distances.

There used to be talk of starting a commuter ferry that hops between Bowen Island, Ambleside and Downtown Vancouver. Whatever became of that?

Also, I've heard of plans to build a rail line that bypasses the White Rock Peninsula in a straight line up to Colebrook as a high speed rail upgrade, and the rail that runs along the waterfront was to be converted to a walking/cycling path.
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  #53  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 4:26 AM
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chilliwack is a little far out

it may as well be Victoria or nanaimo in relation to the lower mainland
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  #54  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 4:35 AM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
chilliwack is a little far out

it may as well be Victoria or nanaimo in relation to the lower mainland
How about for Chilliwack-Abbotsford, Chilliwack-Langley or even Chilliwack-Surrey traffic? It's not all about Vancouver.
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  #55  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 4:37 AM
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well yah i guess

but if you gotta be out in depressing land you may as well have a car

lol

gawd i hate the valley
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  #56  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 4:41 AM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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well yah i guess

but if you gotta be out in depressing land you may as well have a car
If you live on a farm, yeah. But the urban pockets scattered about should be connected by some sort of mass transit whenever possible.
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 5:18 AM
lightrail lightrail is offline
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Originally Posted by Jared View Post
It's doable, London does it (with driver-operated trains too!). In fact, its what they're planning for the current expansion.

Also, I think you need better East-West transit in the southern areas. A Surrey-Richmond or New West-Richmond express bus would greatly speed up commutes for people along those routes.

otherwise, nice job.
True re: London. However, there are two routes where this occurs - on the Circle Line (intermixing with the District, Metropolitan and Hammersmith and City lines, and on the Northern Line where it branches into the City and Charing Cross Branch, and then rejoins.

for the Circle - London Underground will tell you it is a nightmare logistically and the Circle Line is the reason more capacity cannot be added. They're actually thinking of ditching the Circle to increase capacity.

For the Northern, there is discusison of splitting it into two lines (Edgeware to Kennington via Charing Cross, to be called Edgeware Line, and another High Barnett to Morden via City called Northern Line). To do this, considerable expense would be required on new tunnels at the Camben deep-level junctions, and new interchange capacity at Camden Town Station

So yes, it is done, but not ideal.

Re: east-west southern routes - totally agree.
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  #58  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 5:20 AM
lightrail lightrail is offline
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Originally Posted by Nutterbug View Post
Seabuses are slow. They're not much good for long distances.

There used to be talk of starting a commuter ferry that hops between Bowen Island, Ambleside and Downtown Vancouver. Whatever became of that?

Also, I've heard of plans to build a rail line that bypasses the White Rock Peninsula in a straight line up to Colebrook as a high speed rail upgrade, and the rail that runs along the waterfront was to be converted to a walking/cycling path.
No reason why higher speed vessels can't be designed for the route - especially to Langdale. Maybe a 400 passenger cat type passenger ferry. Use it in the off-peak to run trips to Nanaimo.
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  #59  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 7:58 AM
eduardo88 eduardo88 is offline
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Originally Posted by flight_from_kamakura View Post
okay, this is truly inspired. the sea bus route expansions would be a tough sell (but the park royal one as as the hub of a whistler wce expansion is a very very good idea, and i love the idea of a new waterfront station seabus hub as part of a larger port redevelopment project), and i bet you a dollar that be have a 33rd avenue station built out within 10 years on the c-line. but your evergreen/millenium line reorientation is clever and very well considered (assuming the e-line goes with skytrain technology)
It's a great map i agree, i'd love it if they got rid of the ridiculous m-line loop and made the expo line split into two: one terminus in surrey and the other at lougheed, it'd make so much sense to do that, they could have the expo line end on the middle platform at lougheed allowing easy transfer to the m-line/evergreen line (which would be the same line)

With regards to the circle line in london, they're planning on getting rid of it and turning the Hammersmith & City line into a spiral, because a single delay can have long lasting knock on effects and be much more disruptive than on a non-orbital line.
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  #60  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 5:22 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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well yah i guess

but if you gotta be out in depressing land you may as well have a car

lol

gawd i hate the valley
Interesting... What do you hate about it? The lack of concrete?
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