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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 6:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
METRO VANCOUVER — Commuters crossing the Fraser River can expect longer line-ups and further delays after a suspicious fire Sunday shut down the Pattullo Bridge for at least a month, diverting its 80,000 daily users to other routes

TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie urged commuters to leave earlier or later for work and consider carpooling and telecommuting, predicting overcrowded conditions on the Port Mann and Alex Fraser bridges and George Massey Tunnel, as well as long waits for buses and SkyTrains.

"!@#$%^&*()<>_+/" .
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:07 AM
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Falcon refused to build the queue jumper lane on Highway 1 so buses could get over the Port Mann. This was planned to be finished by now. He refused to do it because he was worried that it would work and blow his case for expanding the Highway.
The Port Mann is poorly designed bridge and the money needed to expand the bridge by one lane would have been huge and a waste, it really is better to just build a new bridge entirely.

Also can someone please tell me how the delayed evergreen line is the liberals fault, i never remember hearing any news saying "Liberals cancel evergreen line project" I do know that they chose to built the canada line route first over the evergreen line, which i believe when it opens will be equivalent to 10 lanes of traffic *over the Fraser River.* So i do believe that if they did go ahead with the evergreen line the c-line would be at the current state the evergreen line is, which is still going to be built.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Also can someone please tell me how the delayed evergreen line is the liberals fault, i never remember hearing any news saying "Liberals cancel evergreen line project".
Ravman would tell you...
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:21 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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Originally Posted by racc View Post
Well for one thing, more SkyTrain cars would help. Falcon, Campbell and the Liberals have been underfunding transit by $100 million per year for the last 8 years. We are 500 buses short which would help people get to SkyTrain.

Falcon refused to build the queue jumper lane on Highway 1 so buses could get over the Port Mann. This was planned to be finished by now. He refused to do it because he was worried that it would work and blow his case for expanding the Highway.

Oh yeah, the Evergreen Line should have been finished as well. People could be using the SkyTrain to get over the river and then transfer to the Evergreen Line so they wouldn't have to drive over the bridge.

This mess falls clearly on Falcon and Campbell's feet. They are forcing people to drive because they haven't funding transit.
I can't see how you can blame the BC Liberals for all of this. We have purchased additional SkyTrain cars and we are in the process of purchasing more. Two have arrived... but it's not like we can just put them in service. we are short on buses, but it's not like we haven't ordered them. Many have been ordered and many have been arrived already.

I can't say I disagree th the queue jumper lane, but the bridge as well as highway 1 itself is pretty congested already. We are just getting commuters stuck in traffic even more.

People could still take the SkyTrain to get over the river and then transfer to the M-Line and then bus there way to COQ. THE EVERGREEN LINE DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE. It's a matter of choices.

This mess can't just be blamed in any way by the Liberals. Whoever should be blamed is the person who cause the fire.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:25 AM
paradigm4 paradigm4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
so, here is how i see what its going to happen:

in a week, an engineer is going to come out and say "there's no possible way we can safely brace this bridge to handle the traffic load it has. we're going to have to build a new bridge within 5 years."

and then what will happen is the Pattullo will be closed indefinitely pending further investigation of the matter. so, we'll say in April or May (just in time for the election) someone is going to leak renderings of the new bridge to the public, thus pushing the Liberals over the edge and winning the election.

ground work on a new Pattullo Bridge will begin shortly after the Olympics are over with a scheduled completion date of 2012. in the mean time the old bridge will be stripped of its paint and torn down.
IMO, that prediction makes no sense, considering:

1) The Liberals have made it clear that the Patullo is TransLink's responsibility and will not take any blame for it, nor contribute any finances to it's replacement.

2) Why would the Liberals shift the priority bridge construction from PMH1 to the Patullo all of a sudden?

3) There's no possible way it could be finished by 2012. The friggin Evergreen Line and Port Mann aren't even scheduled to be done by 2014.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
The Port Mann is poorly designed bridge and the money needed to expand the bridge by one lane would have been huge and a waste, it really is better to just build a new bridge entirely.

Also can someone please tell me how the delayed evergreen line is the liberals fault, i never remember hearing any news saying "Liberals cancel evergreen line project" I do know that they chose to built the canada line route first over the evergreen line, which i believe when it opens will be equivalent to 10 lanes of traffic *over the Fraser River.* So i do believe that if they did go ahead with the evergreen line the c-line would be at the current state the evergreen line is, which is still going to be built.
Well, the Liberals did cancel Phase 2 of the T-Line, i.e the North-East sector Rapid Transit Line, i.e. the Evergreen Line. AFAIK, the NDP had it on the books to begin shortly after the Millennium Line, i.e. Phase 1 of the T-Line, opened. However, that's the same time the Liberals came into power, and, among one of their many cost cutting measures, cancelled the project. That forced TransLink to review it's budgetary constraints and change the technology to LRT in the first place.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
But Bruce Ralston, New Democrat MLA for Surrey-Whalley, said the anticipated gridlock signals that the Liberal government doesn’t consider alternative forms of transit a priority.

“This illustrates how far we’ve fallen behind south of the Fraser, and how little attention there are to transportation alternatives.”

Measuring 1,221 metres, or 4,006 feet, the Pattullo was completed in 1937.

ksinoski@vancouversun.com

wow this guy is a total ravman er I mean nutjub. What does he want another skytrainline into Surrey? Buses would be jammed up in the current situation....at least there will be HOV lanes soon on the new Port Man.......that will help in a similar situation to as we have now....but those darn Liberals I tell ya
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:48 AM
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Originally Posted by racc View Post
Well for one thing, more SkyTrain cars would help. Falcon, Campbell and the Liberals have been underfunding transit by $100 million per year for the last 8 years. We are 500 buses short which would help people get to SkyTrain.

Falcon refused to build the queue jumper lane on Highway 1 so buses could get over the Port Mann. This was planned to be finished by now. He refused to do it because he was worried that it would work and blow his case for expanding the Highway.

Oh yeah, the Evergreen Line should have been finished as well. People could be using the SkyTrain to get over the river and then transfer to the Evergreen Line so they wouldn't have to drive over the bridge.

This mess falls clearly on Falcon and Campbell's feet. They are forcing people to drive because they haven't funding transit.
ravman is this you?
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racc View Post
Well for one thing, more SkyTrain cars would help. Falcon, Campbell and the Liberals have been underfunding transit by $100 million per year for the last 8 years. We are 500 buses short which would help people get to SkyTrain.

Falcon refused to build the queue jumper lane on Highway 1 so buses could get over the Port Mann. This was planned to be finished by now. He refused to do it because he was worried that it would work and blow his case for expanding the Highway.

Oh yeah, the Evergreen Line should have been finished as well. People could be using the SkyTrain to get over the river and then transfer to the Evergreen Line so they wouldn't have to drive over the bridge.

This mess falls clearly on Falcon and Campbell's feet. They are forcing people to drive because they haven't funding transit.
YES YES YES!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x2 View Post
But Bruce Ralston, New Democrat MLA for Surrey-Whalley, said the anticipated gridlock signals that the Liberal government doesn’t consider alternative forms of transit a priority.

“This illustrates how far we’ve fallen behind south of the Fraser, and how little attention there are to transportation alternatives.”
We need around 800 more busses in the city NOW... mostly for tricities and lower fraser!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
So i do believe that if they did go ahead with the evergreen line the c-line would be at the current state the evergreen line is, which is still going to be built.
you can do both... Eline and Cline... it is not impossible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hong Kongese View Post
Ravman would tell you...
Well the Mline also adds 10 lanes of traffic and the Evergreen Line was the Part 2 of the project and part 3 was the extension towards UBC. The system was built for that purpose. switches, platforms and other items were installed during the construction of the Mline for that purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
I can't see how you can blame the BC Liberals for all of this.
This mess can't just be blamed in any way by the Liberals.
The mayor of Surrey has been asking for 500 buses for a long time... the point is to get less pple to use their cars by encouraging carpool,vanpool and transit. this way the roads would not be at peak capacity yesterday and in dire state today (or starting Mon morning).. if you have more busses, more people are able to take transit.... and less cars on the roads...

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm4 View Post
The friggin Evergreen Line and Port Mann aren't even scheduled to be done by 2014.
i believe the Port Mann project is delayed. Falcon stated that "pilings will be rising from the river" before the May 12 election! and there is no sign of anything thus far!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth View Post
ravman is this you?
GO RACC GO!!!

and no i am not RACC... i am Ravman ( a man who likes the Rav line )
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 8:22 AM
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I like your spirit Ravman, if the NDP supported gateway then i would vote for them, but sadly they seem to have no foresight in road expansion/maintenance. It seems all transit or nothing, while i am more of a 50/50 person. I want to see the skytrain to Coquitlam and UBC ASAP along with many new buses, but i also want the #1 to become safer with better designed interchanges, longer merge lanes and a new Port Mann bridge that will no longer be a choke point. (seeing how it is the heart of the entire road system and our main roadway bridge connecting us to the rest of Canada) I also want to see the SFPR road built, along with major highway improvements in the interior, such as what is being done between Golden and the Alberta border. I feel with the NDP back this next term all this will be cancelled, and all the money spent on designing, pre-loading and studying will be thrown out the window and our roads again will be inadequate and left to decay. I also feel they are simply taking a stance against gateway just to buy votes from those who oppose it.

Lastly, when a horribly designed bridge built in 1937 has an accident such as this, it is not just the current governments fault, but all the governments all the way back to when it was designed in the first place. It has been known as a troublesome spot for a very long time.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 8:44 AM
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the late news said that skytrain was going to start running at 4:20 am from surrey dyring the bridge down time

thats what an hour early?

maybe they should start it as a normal thing
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 8:47 AM
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Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
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After reading some of the posts here... does anybody really understand the logistical mess that the South of the Fraser will be in??? This situation is not the proverbial downtown Vancouver transit "Garden of Eden". And most folk, business, etc. shun transit in any event.

The Port Mann Bridge does not have scheduled transit service. Both the Alex Fraser Bridge and the George Massey Tunnel are going to be in a real mess. Heck, not too many years ago one could travel through the tunnel at 100 km/hr +. These days, at any time of the day, on any day of the week, I find myself almost always slowing down to 60 km/hr for a short duration in every lane.

This situation is akin to shutting down the Granville St. Bridge or the Lions Gate Bridge. Imagine the mess arising out of that? Just tell everybody to take transit?

And I'm going to be in it. Lots of fun.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
I like your spirit Ravman, if the NDP supported gateway then i would vote for them, but sadly they seem to have no foresight in road expansion/maintenance.
.
The only chance I would vote for NDP is when Ravman would run for the NDP in Surrey.

Seriously, I don't think the NDP really that much against the SFPR project, am I right, Ravman?
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 9:05 AM
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Seriously, I don't think the NDP really that much against the SFPR project, am I right, Ravman?
Here, you can see a pic of NDP MLA's Corky Evans, Guy Gentner, and Charlie Wyse arm-in-arm with former Glen Clark strategist Bill Tielemen at a meeting opposing the SFPR back in October:



And here's the story with the rest of the anti-SFPR crowd (Don Hunt, Eliza Olson, Stephen Rees, and Eric Doherty):

http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/200...perimeter.html
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  #75  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 5:14 PM
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Does anyone know if the fire affected the rail bridges? All the West Coast Express trains were running slower than usual due to higher volumes of freight traffic.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
I like your spirit Ravman, if the NDP supported gateway then i would vote for them, but sadly they seem to have no foresight in road expansion/maintenance. It seems all transit or nothing, while i am more of a 50/50 person. I want to see the skytrain to Coquitlam and UBC ASAP along with many new buses, but i also want the #1 to become safer with better designed interchanges, longer merge lanes and a new Port Mann bridge that will no longer be a choke point. (seeing how it is the heart of the entire road system and our main roadway bridge connecting us to the rest of Canada) I also want to see the SFPR road built, along with major highway improvements in the interior, such as what is being done between Golden and the Alberta border. I feel with the NDP back this next term all this will be cancelled, and all the money spent on designing, pre-loading and studying will be thrown out the window and our roads again will be inadequate and left to decay. I also feel they are simply taking a stance against gateway just to buy votes from those who oppose it.

Lastly, when a horribly designed bridge built in 1937 has an accident such as this, it is not just the current governments fault, but all the governments all the way back to when it was designed in the first place. It has been known as a troublesome spot for a very long time.
Well said!!!!
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  #77  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 7:52 PM
CoryHolmes CoryHolmes is offline
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So just how bad was the commute this morning without the Big P?
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by paradigm4 View Post
There's no possible way it could be finished by 2012. The friggin Evergreen Line and Port Mann aren't even scheduled to be done by 2014.
Remember the I-35W bridge over the Mississippi that collapsed in Minneapolis? The replacement was designed and completed in approximately 13 months. If it needs to be done, it can be done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Ant...s_(35W)_Bridge
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  #79  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 8:46 PM
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Just a note that I think that when the Pattullo Bridge was built, it was two wide lanes (like the Lions Gate Bridge) so the sharp curves were not a hazard at the time.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2009, 8:48 PM
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Building a two lane bridge of that scale at the time shows no sense of foresight.
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