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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2008, 11:07 PM
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people do move to the island for the slower get away from the rest of the world lifestyle

i know thats why we moved there when we lived on the island
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2008, 2:36 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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Originally Posted by tintinium View Post
And why would a bridge "destroy" the islands?

In any case, I agree that the best option is to build a couple of bridges from the Island to Galliano and build a Ferry terminal there. Then, you're just connecting some islands to some other islands.
People enjoy the peace and serenity of living on the islands, and they chose to live there to get away from the urban life. A highway ripping through their community just brings it bustling city sounds, something they don't want. Some I wouldn't want either.

Anyways, a bridge is just a waste of money. As I said earlier, and many others too, this kind of money could've been allocated to improving our roads and public transportation.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2008, 3:35 AM
eduardo88 eduardo88 is offline
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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Anyways, a bridge is just a waste of money. As I said earlier, and many others too, this kind of money could've been allocated to improving our roads and public transportation.
I dont get why this thread hasnt died out yet...
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  #64  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 12:04 AM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
People enjoy the peace and serenity of living on the islands, and they chose to live there to get away from the urban life. A highway ripping through their community just brings it bustling city sounds, something they don't want. Some I wouldn't want either.

Anyways, a bridge is just a waste of money. As I said earlier, and many others too, this kind of money could've been allocated to improving our roads and public transportation.
Absolutely, however I think people exaggerate when they say it will "destroy" an island.

I still think that a bridge from the Island onto a few of the other islands would be a good idea... and cut the ferry time in half. This would also enable them to use faster ferries (there would be no wake to worry about, as the ferries would travel only on the open seas)

Realistically, that's probably the most we'd see in the next 25 years.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 1:53 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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Originally Posted by tintinium View Post
Absolutely, however I think people exaggerate when they say it will "destroy" an island.

I still think that a bridge from the Island onto a few of the other islands would be a good idea... and cut the ferry time in half. This would also enable them to use faster ferries (there would be no wake to worry about, as the ferries would travel only on the open seas)

Realistically, that's probably the most we'd see in the next 25 years.
I guess it wouldn't be "destroying" the island, but it would definitely be an ugly scar I wouldn't want to see. I can't see this in twenty five years, actually I can't see in my lifetime.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 1:53 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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Originally Posted by eduardo88 View Post
I dont get why this thread hasnt died out yet...
I don't either, but I can't just lock it right? =P
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  #67  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 2:11 AM
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Really, with more sailings and major improvements to the terminals at Tsawassen and Swartz Bay, the ferry system will be good enough for the next 30-40 years. Those who live on the island likely aren't in any rush.

As for a new bridge "resolving" any of the traffic/congestion/line-up issues at the terminals whenever a ferry breaks down or when there's a storm, think again. You're likely gonna have car crashes on any crossing, which will obviously block traffic and will take time to remove the cars. As well, the crossing will likely be closed whenever there is a storm....which happens on the Confederation Bridge, and of course BC Ferries has major sailing delays whenever that happens.

The ferry route is also a huge tourist attraction....with a bridge, there's nothing to see. Like the Confederation Bridge, a more than one metre high concrete barrier wall protects both sides of the bridge from wind.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 4:40 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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How do islanders feel about a ferry terminal on Gabriola Island instead of going through that narrow channel?
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  #69  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tintinium View Post
How do islanders feel about a ferry terminal on Gabriola Island instead of going through that narrow channel?
Vancouver Islanders or Gabriola Islanders?
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  #70  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 7:53 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Hmmm... this is true. I can pretty much guess what Gabriolans think. I am surprised that there aren't any studies along this line. If you could half the time of the crossing, then you could use half as many ferries.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 9:16 PM
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I'm sure the Gabriola Islanders won't be able to outmuscle the Vancouver Islanders politically.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 4:01 AM
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Originally Posted by northwest2k View Post
If Japan can have 4 bridges linking all their islands. Why can't we have at least 1???
A section of this article is applicable here, but also more generally: contrary to popular belief (motivated by Simcity, I imagine) it is possible to spend too much on infrastructure:
Quote:
from The Puzzle of Power:
Japan's local governments are unhealthily dependent on its national one
Mar 6th 2008 | KUMAMOTO
From The Economist print edition


***
In such a system [of weak local govt.], says Mr Kitagawa, local governments act as mere contractors to the centre. It is the chief cause of the wasteful infrastructure spending that blights Japan's landscape. In Kumamoto, for example, a struggling prefecture on southern Kyushu island, one local official admits that unnecessary new bypasses, financed partly by the central government, are hastening the decline of town centres, which get little government investment. Meanwhile, he says, a planned costly extension of the bullet train, on which the prefecture pins its hopes, is just as likely to make it easier for businesses and young people to flee to the thriving big city of Fukuoka as it is to attract them.

The LDP has tried to improve things. Junichiro Koizumi, the reformist prime minister between 2001 and 2006, slashed public spending on infrastructure, which at its peak was three or four times higher than in other rich countries. But it remains high. He also introduced measures that were supposed radically to decentralise power. Yet, apart from saving the central government money, they have not worked. Although Tokyo claimed it was giving localities greater autonomy, in practice it slashed subsidies, leaving local governments tottering under a weight of debt incurred as a result of projects ordered by the national government years before.
***
Worth mentioning that another major reason that a bridge will never happen is that BC Ferries was recently privatized, and what kind of message would the government be sending to potential investors if it decides to use taxpayer money do destroy a privately operated ferry business (in addition to harming the Helijet and seaplanes)? I imagine the government agreed not to compete when BC Ferries was privatized.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 4:11 AM
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Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian G. View Post
BC Ferries was recently privatized, and what kind of message would the government be sending to potential investors if it decides to use taxpayer money do destroy a privately operated ferry business (in addition to harming the Helijet and seaplanes)? I imagine the government agreed not to compete when BC Ferries was privatized.
Huhhhhh???? BC Ferries privatized?

The owner of BC Ferry Services is the BC government. All that occurred was that the ownership structure of BC Ferries was changed from a crown corp. to the very successful YVR model.

That is... provide a quality product to the consumer and no more ill-conceived political interference... Seen tooooooo much of that over the past few decades.

Ya aren't now saying that YVR is privatized??? It's a different and, IMHO, a more effective governing and operating structure.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 4:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Huhhhhh???? BC Ferries privatized?

The owner of BC Ferry Services is the BC government. All that occurred was that the ownership structure of BC Ferries was changed from a crown corp. to the very successful YVR model.

That is... provide a quality product to the consumer and no more ill-conceived political interference... Seen tooooooo much of that over the past few decades.

Ya aren't now saying that YVR is privatized??? It's a different and, IMHO, a more effective governing and operating structure.
BC Ferries is quite different from YVR's model. YVR isn't a corporation at all but a non-profit entity which actually has quite a few subsidiaries that operate airports worldwide.
Really, BC Ferries is the opposite model. It's legislated mandate states that it's first priority should be to look at how to effectivly privatize routes, where possible. Plus, instead of handing money to the government in the form of rent it receives a subsidy from the government. *rants*

Anyways......Vancouver Island would be much better served having improved transportation systems on the Island itself. The E&N railway has recently been purchased by a non-profit group operated by different municipal governments along its route who are trying to revitalize it into a commuter link. Currently it runs one train a day LEAVING downtown Victoria during the morning rush and RETURNING during the evening rush. The opposite way it should run really. Considering how much growth is occuring in the western suburbs of Victoria and upisland, this is really important. All of Victoria's large tower proposals are in the western suburbs (eg. a 42 story tower on top of an equally large mountain).
As well, the highways SUCK. A two-lane country road connection Victoria to the rset of the Island is NOT enough. Plus the highway to the ferry with all those stoplights is extremely dangerous since it carries so much traffic. These are the issues Islanders really want that money spent on!
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  #75  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 5:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkster View Post
BC Ferries is quite different from YVR's model.
I've gotta disagree... Even BC Ferry Services itself has described its new governing structure akin to YVR:

Quote:
YVR business model
http://www.bcferries.com/about/publi...FAC_030124.pdf

That said, BC Ferry Services has its own unique features historically within that fit, eg. continued government subsidies for money-losing smaller routes as part of public policy.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 9:19 PM
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A bridge to The Island will NEVER EVER happen.
Why?..........because people on The Island/Gulf Islands don't want it.

This is only an issue for people in Vancouver not people on the islands.
Having lived on SaltSpring, Victoria, and Vancuver I can honestly say that it is only people on the mainland who want it.
People are on Ther Island because they want to be. They are there because it is NOT Vancouver. It is a different lifestyle, pace, attitude, values etc.
It's as different from Vancouver as Vancouver is to Kelowna or anywhere in The Interior for that matter.

People like the difference and the space between the two. If they wanted to be on the mainland then they would be.
Islanders would rather have better service between the Gulf Islands/The Iland and better service ferry service between the mainland and The Islands.
They want a greatly upgraded E&N, an upgraded Island Highway.
Passenger-only high-speed ferry to Vancouver. The reason the recent passneger ferry from Nanimo to Vancouver went belly up was not due to lack of ridership which was quite good but due to problems at Waterfront Station and high fares due to not being run/ferry purchase by BCFerries which gave it as very heavy debt problem. That is not the case with BCFerries.

Passenger ferry only from Victoria to Vancouver is very problematic due to the high durbulance thru the Gulf Islands and akward route. Pasenger-only is very viable from both Nanaimo and Comox which as the crow flies is not much further.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 9:52 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Passenger ferry only from Victoria to Vancouver is very problematic due to the high durbulance thru the Gulf Islands and akward route.
How does Sidney-Steveston sound, with a Canada Line extension to Steveston?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Pasenger-only is very viable from both Nanaimo and Comox which as the crow flies is not much further.
Nanaimo-Vancouver sounds right.. Comox-Vancouver seems to be a bit of a waste. Take a bus/train to Nanaimo, and catch a ferry from there.

Anyways, here's a map I made a while back of my idealized passenger ferry network for Southwest BC.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...3,2.389526&z=9
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  #78  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
A bridge to The Island will NEVER EVER happen.
Why?..........because people on The Island/Gulf Islands don't want it.

This is only an issue for people in Vancouver not people on the islands.
Having lived on SaltSpring, Victoria, and Vancuver I can honestly say that it is only people on the mainland who want it.
People are on Ther Island because they want to be. They are there because it is NOT Vancouver. It is a different lifestyle, pace, attitude, values etc.
It's as different from Vancouver as Vancouver is to Kelowna or anywhere in The Interior for that matter.
Now that's pretty funny, that is exactly why most people moved to White Rock years ago, it was to get away from Vancouver. The locals there are fighting the Vancouverization of W.R. but are slowly losing. Do you really think the Nimbys will be able to stop a bridge? Sure they can delay it, but that bridge will be built at some point (definitely before BC's bicentennial). This coming from the biggest pessimist here.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2008, 11:36 AM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
A bridge to The Island will NEVER EVER happen.
Why?..........because people on The Island/Gulf Islands don't want it.

This is only an issue for people in Vancouver not people on the islands.
Having lived on SaltSpring, Victoria, and Vancuver I can honestly say that it is only people on the mainland who want it.
People are on Ther Island because they want to be. They are there because it is NOT Vancouver. It is a different lifestyle, pace, attitude, values etc.
It's as different from Vancouver as Vancouver is to Kelowna or anywhere in The Interior for that matter.
Better service as in a bridge from Vancouver Island to these Islands. That way, the actual bridge from The mainland can wait for a while.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2008, 5:03 PM
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nope. never.
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