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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 7:59 AM
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i'd love to see it be a streetcar - kerrisdale is quite dense and could be more so
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 5:10 PM
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Timely article...

Quote:
Corridor piques bike-path interest
By Frank Luba, The Province
April 1, 2010 8:28 AM



There's a lot of interest in putting a bike path down the Arbutus Corridor -- except from its owners, Canadian Pacific Railway.

The narrow, 11-kilometre strip of former rail line runs through the scenic heart of Vancouver's west side and has an unofficial trail that is used by pedestrians, people walking their dogs and cyclists. But the Vancouver Area Cycling Coalition would like the corridor to become an official, paved bike trail and pedestrian walkway.

When asked if Canadian Pacific would mind if a bike path was built on what is still a rail right-of-way, company spokesman Mike LoVecchio replied: "It is private property. Nobody could build a bike path, a streetcar or operate a freight train [on the corridor] without entering into discussions with us and that has not happened."

But cycling coalition president Arno Schortinghuis said he's "an incredible optimist" when it comes to putting a bikeway on the corridor.

"We did speak to someone at CP, I can tell you that, and they weren't against the idea," said Schortinghuis.

After shutting down rail service in 1999, CP had proposed an ambitious commercial-residential development for the corridor.

But the city's official development plan for the corridor instead designated it for rail and transit, as well as for cyclists and pedestrians.

The company and the city subsequently got into a legal fight that went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, which upheld the city's right to use the corridor for transit and as a greenway.

Both sides of Vancouver council continue to support the corridor being used for bikes and, if funding can be found, a streetcar or similar transit option.

fluba@theprovince.com
http://www.theprovince.com/travel/Co...909/story.html

I think it would be great to have a bike path along that corridor but I agree with Officedweller that it would be very difficult to add a streetcar line later if a bike path was already there. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd definitely pick to have a streetcar running through there.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 5:29 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Besides the massive rehabilitation necessary, is that corridor actually wide enough for two tracks and potential streetcars to pass each other along the whole route?

That picture makes it look pretty narrow.
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Besides the massive rehabilitation necessary, is that corridor actually wide enough for two tracks and potential streetcars to pass each other along the whole route?

That picture makes it look pretty narrow.
I'm sure I've seen old photos of that area showing two trackbeds. I was told that one set of tracks was for CP freight and the other set was for BC Electric Interurbans running from downtown Vancouver to Steveston.

Some of the E-W avenues that cross these Arbutus tracks may still show asphalt or concrete patches where these tracks have been removed or covered up.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 5:46 PM
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Looking on Google Maps, the right of way appears to be 50 feet wide all the way from Marpole to Granville Island. A large part of the route has even more space, about 20 m, although it might not all be owned by CP. The tracks appear to have been built on the north/west side of the right of way, which would corroborate jsbertram's post.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 5:55 PM
The_Henry_Man The_Henry_Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny View Post
Quote from the Tyee link above regarding the canada line and worth to repeat:

"That the decision to construct this line was utter stupidity goes without saying, and such will be demonstrated as the costs skyrocket (to be borne in part by public servants' pension funds) and it becomes clear that the predicted ridership has been grossly inflated. In days to come Malcolm Johnston of the Light Rail Committee will be saying "I told you so" so often that he will appear to be otherwise mute"

it could be interesting to see if the Tyee editors have made their Mea Culpa, for their then "utter stupidity"...
The Tyee is the radical ultra-left version of Rush Limbaugh and the Fox News. A haven for irrational left wing nutjobs. Nuff said....
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 9:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
I think it would be great to have a bike path along that corridor but I agree with Officedweller that it would be very difficult to add a streetcar line later if a bike path was already there. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd definitely pick to have a streetcar running through there.
If money were no object, you could cut and cover the rail lines and still have the bike path on top. Wouldn't that be great? Nobody would have to contend with the streetcars when they cross streets. It'd be like those pre-metro lines in Brussels. And one day down the road you could convert it to rapid transit.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 10:21 PM
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that photo just makes me drool imagining the streetcar running along there.
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrant View Post
If money were no object, you could cut and cover the rail lines and still have the bike path on top. Wouldn't that be great? Nobody would have to contend with the streetcars when they cross streets. It'd be like those pre-metro lines in Brussels. And one day down the road you could convert it to rapid transit.
Great idea ! !
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 4:37 AM
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If the street cars were below ground the would cease to be street cars...

Pretty sure there is enough space to double track and have a bike path, the problem is to do so would necessitate removing the existing track and shifting it. Depending on the condition of the existing track by the time anything is done with it, we might need to replace it anyways. The only problem would be where stations are placed there would need to be extra property acquired to accommodate everything.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 5:22 AM
Conrad Yablonski Conrad Yablonski is offline
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I've lived within a block or two of those tracks since the late 70's and have walked from Granville Island to Marpole on them, biked quite a bit too.

As to streetcars IMO that will never happen in the lifetime of anyone posting on this thread-I also know a lot of people who live in Kerrisdale and they have no interest/none in having people from other parts of the city visit (and in fact there's very little to see) nor are they so impecunious as to take transit themselves.

And believe me when you pay as much property tax as those people do City Hall listens carefully.

Then there's the pretty little award winning Community Gardens that have sprung up all along the ribbon-who's going to bulldoze those?
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 6:38 AM
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there are big signs that say no tresspassing - i've always wanted to walk it but i am scared to get caught
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 7:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
If the street cars were below ground the would cease to be street cars...

Pretty sure there is enough space to double track and have a bike path, the problem is to do so would necessitate removing the existing track and shifting it. Depending on the condition of the existing track by the time anything is done with it, we might need to replace it anyways. The only problem would be where stations are placed there would need to be extra property acquired to accommodate everything.
Any use of the Arbutus tracks for transit implies that the existing railway tracks will be replaced with all new rails & power systems, since the CPR is famous for doing minimal maintenance on tracks that aren't heavily used. Since these have been left to rot since 1999, and therefore haven't had any maintenance since then (notice the abundant weed growth along the rails & between the ties), there's nothing there worth keeping & reusing. Send the rails to a steel recycler, and figure out what to do with the creosote-laced ties.

As seen with the demo line between C-Line Olympic Village and Granville Island, new concrete ties with rubber gaskets holding the rails to the ties and continuous-weld rails make a quieter and smoother ride. If you're going to spend millions on new transit, you are better off following the demo line example and invest in the infrastructure so the line can run trouble-free in the beginning when you're trying to build ridership.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski View Post
As to streetcars IMO that will never happen in the lifetime of anyone posting on this thread-I also know a lot of people who live in Kerrisdale and they have no interest/none in having people from other parts of the city visit (and in fact there's very little to see) nor are they so impecunious as to take transit themselves.

And believe me when you pay as much property tax as those people do City Hall listens carefully.

Then there's the pretty little award winning Community Gardens that have sprung up all along the ribbon-who's going to bulldoze those?
I'm pretty sure they could work out a solution to move the garden or simply buy it up. A native burial ground... now that would stall things.
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski View Post
I've lived within a block or two of those tracks since the late 70's and have walked from Granville Island to Marpole on them, biked quite a bit too.

As to streetcars IMO that will never happen in the lifetime of anyone posting on this thread-I also know a lot of people who live in Kerrisdale and they have no interest/none in having people from other parts of the city visit (and in fact there's very little to see) nor are they so impecunious as to take transit themselves.

And believe me when you pay as much property tax as those people do City Hall listens carefully.

Then there's the pretty little award winning Community Gardens that have sprung up all along the ribbon-who's going to bulldoze those?
Wow, perhaps they should build a moat around the place and pull up the draw bridge at night to keep the rif raf out.

Sad, very sad. I don't think many people from downtown want to visit anyway. I lived there for a year and have not been back since I left.

I highly doubt that daisys and flower pots will stand in the way of development.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad Yablonski View Post
I've lived within a block or two of those tracks since the late 70's and have walked from Granville Island to Marpole on them, biked quite a bit too.

As to streetcars IMO that will never happen in the lifetime of anyone posting on this thread-I also know a lot of people who live in Kerrisdale and they have no interest/none in having people from other parts of the city visit (and in fact there's very little to see) nor are they so impecunious as to take transit themselves.

And believe me when you pay as much property tax as those people do City Hall listens carefully.

Then there's the pretty little award winning Community Gardens that have sprung up all along the ribbon-who's going to bulldoze those?
I've noticed those, and was concerned about that they are digging in. Anyone who has lived near a railway knows how contaminated the railbeds and nearby areas can be. Who knows what has spilled from the rail cars and engines over the last century as they have trundled by what are now the community gardens.

The Sun Yat-Sen gardens and the nearby sports fields were built on reclaimed rail yards by scraping most (not all) of the contaminated dirt off & covering up the leftover contamination with a few feet of clay before building the gardens and playing fields. I doubt anything like that has been done on the CPR lands along the abandoned arbutus line, so I can only imagine what is being ingested when enjoying the fresh veggies grown in your own plot of the community garden.
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 6:59 PM
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Question Why is the compass needle doing 180° swings here?

Over the past few months, most notably in the "Transit Fantasies" thread, but elsewhere on the forum too, it seemed to me that it was a "fait accompli" that the Arbutus Corridor would one day be used for transit of some sort, be it mini-metro, streetcars, or other rail transit.

I cannot understand why suddenly this debate has opened up whether to keep it as a bike path/ walking trail, or whether to cede to the needs of transit users. I can understand the wish of Kerrisdale residents to keep it bucolic and natural. I think most neighbourhoods would want that.

But why is the entire future of the corridor suddenly up for grabs? To keep it as a natural pathway, or ultimately, to develop it as a transit route? Is this s recent development that has sprung up? Can someone fill me in? I fail to understand the "turnaround" in logic on the Arbutus Corridor.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
If the street cars were below ground the would cease to be street cars...

Pretty sure there is enough space to double track and have a bike path, the problem is to do so would necessitate removing the existing track and shifting it. Depending on the condition of the existing track by the time anything is done with it, we might need to replace it anyways. The only problem would be where stations are placed there would need to be extra property acquired to accommodate everything.
There needs to be separate bike and pedestrian paths, like along the Seawall, to avoid conflicts between cyclists and peds. There are several places along the corridor where I expect it is too narrow for a bike path, a ped path and double track rail.

Why not just put the streetcar along the street? It would go closer to many popular destinations and the route is shorter as long as a street car can be found that would make it up the hill.
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 8:40 PM
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The more I think about it the more I think that street cars are huge waste of money. I mean really all the draws to them CAN be reproduced via buses especially if you take their astronomical costs and apply them to making a better bus route. Take a bus, apply it to a specific route, design to operate on that route, make it look like a street car, tweak the suspension and noise output to resemble a street car, hide the wheels, maybe stick in some trolly lines and then last of all stick sensors bellow the road bed to allow the street bus to run without steering in a dedicated or shared lane. If you really want to go all out then throw some faux rails in the road bed to make it look really authentic.

Do this and you will have the same thing as a street car but with flexibility, and flexibility is priceless in our world.

I say get CPR to redevelop the entire corridor in exchange for funding for such a transit project on Arbutus and allowing Arbutus street to expand to 3+2 road configuration + bike lane + wide side walk where the CPR corridor butts up against it. Tweak the density to make this feasible. Thats what I would support, and keep in mind that the huge increase in density along Arbutus streets would support expanded transit along Arbutus street.
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
Over the past few months, most notably in the "Transit Fantasies" thread, but elsewhere on the forum too, it seemed to me that it was a "fait accompli" that the Arbutus Corridor would one day be used for transit of some sort, be it mini-metro, streetcars, or other rail transit.

I cannot understand why suddenly this debate has opened up whether to keep it as a bike path/ walking trail, or whether to cede to the needs of transit users. I can understand the wish of Kerrisdale residents to keep it bucolic and natural. I think most neighbourhoods would want that.

But why is the entire future of the corridor suddenly up for grabs? To keep it as a natural pathway, or ultimately, to develop it as a transit route? Is this s recent development that has sprung up? Can someone fill me in? I fail to understand the "turnaround" in logic on the Arbutus Corridor.
because SpikePhanta asked what was going on with it
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