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  #41  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 7:05 AM
philadelphiathrives philadelphiathrives is offline
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Councilman Goode's position

I think some people are misrepresenting Councilman Goode's position on this project. In no way is he trying to "kill" this development, he's just very skeptical that the tax abatement is necessary to build it and is understandably concerned about funding the city's schools (and it would be more lucrative for him, and his campaign, to side with the wealthy developers than the poor community groups).

Developers are always going to whine that they absolutely need tax breaks, less regulation, and just can't afford union labor, no matter how rich they are or how much money they are making from this city. I think the Councilman has a legitimate point to question whether these abatements are really necessary to build these developments.

I think the argument that the Center City boom wouldn't have occurred without the tax abatement is as short-sighted (and as anti-urban) as it comes, since it completely ignores the city's many advantages, such as culture, walkable shopping and restaurants, nightlife, entertainment, mass transit, easy access to jobs, manicured parks, abundant public art, beautiful architecture, important events, constant festivals, trendy neighborhoods, art galleries, progressive environment, and diversity (which some rich people consider to be a good thing), as well as the national trend towards living in dense cities . Their argument is the usual argument that giving rich people more money is the only way for the city to prosper, and that tax breaks are soooo necessary to attract rich people to the city (cause why would they want to live in Philadelphia otherwise ), and that these rich people will provide enough tax revenue to fund the schools, even though many of them find all sorts of tricks to avoid paying other, and sometimes any, taxes to the city.
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  #42  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 3:20 PM
MSFHQ MSFHQ is offline
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All I know is I hope for Philly's sake that this build up and gentrification doesn't stop. The city needs another decade of CC cleaning up for sure. If this can be done without tax abatements, fine.

And if we stop these abatements how about we spend the increased revenue on something other than schools. Philadelphia schools are bad because of unruly kids and violence. If you want to invest in police and security fine, but this idea that buying newer text books or Mac computers is what will solve the problem is completely off base.

And this isn't a "giving rich people money" argument. It is making owning a condo or home in the city enticing when you have a ton of other option. Philly doesn't get its tax base from Kensington, it gets it from center city residents and businesses.
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  #43  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 5:12 PM
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You get a lot more in the suburbs than you do in Philadelphia. Imagine paying Radnor property taxes and having the schools you have in Philly? Also, Philadelphia hasn't exactly seen a population boom. Yes, more people are moving to the city, but Philadelphia has a relatively bad rap to outsiders.

The lower property tax also ignores the fact that you get nailed for 4% just by living in the city.

I don't see much hard fact refuting. Only other side talking points. IMO, anything that entices developers to build in Philly is a good thing. This city needs continual gentrification to truly entice people. I live in the nice part of the city and it can turn into a dump real fast. Even if removing the abatement would only SLIGHTLY slow down development that is far too much.

I just can't see any good reason to remove it. If Philly wants more tax revenue they should go after the delinquent properties they already have. That or provide a pro business/pro development environment to entice more businesses and professionals to live in the city, thereby feeding the coffers though wage tax (another abomination) and sales tax.
Haha! Wrong! Philadelphia grew by nearly 100,000 people over the last 7 years. Do you know how rare that is for a non-sunbelt city to do that?!?

You are coming out over the last day with some negative things against the city. Like saying in another thread the city isn't worth paying an extra 4% for, then why are you posting here and living there? Also saying things like "a bad rap to outsiders" and "nice part" of the city? Give me a break!
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MSFHQ View Post
All I know is I hope for Philly's sake that this build up and gentrification doesn't stop. The city needs another decade of CC cleaning up for sure. If this can be done without tax abatements, fine.

And if we stop these abatements how about we spend the increased revenue on something other than schools. Philadelphia schools are bad because of unruly kids and violence. If you want to invest in police and security fine, but this idea that buying newer text books or Mac computers is what will solve the problem is completely off base.

And this isn't a "giving rich people money" argument. It is making owning a condo or home in the city enticing when you have a ton of other option. Philly doesn't get its tax base from Kensington, it gets it from center city residents and businesses.
If CC needs another decade of cleaning I would hate to know what 99% of other American downtowns need. Also a huge amount of the tax base comes from northwest, northeast, many parts of s. Philly, university city. Not everything is CC. Even Kensington is experiencing a decent amount of gentrification.
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 5:19 PM
bywoods bywoods is offline
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As upwardly mobile (but not wealthy) professionals, my wife and I are exactly the type of people the city needs to attract and retain. We live in a gentrified center city neighborhood and we pay lots of wage, sales, and real estate taxes. We could afford a much larger house in the suburbs, despite the higher RE taxes. However, we choose to live in a smaller home in the city for the walkable neighborhoods and amenities.

It is impossible to underemphasize the impact of the school budget issues on our willingness to remain in the city once our son is old enough for school. We live in a good catchment, with an elementary school that is not violent and is filled with a diverse array of motivated students from good families. The price of private school for a single child is an order of magnitude higher than real estate taxes for a center city or suburban home. We will be forced to abandon the city if our local school does not have the funding to pay for necessary staff like nurses or guidance counselors.

Right now, Center City residential real estate is booming. New apartment buildings are filling quickly despite high rents, and houses are flying off the market. The tax abatement program helped get things kicked off, and I'm sure many neighborhoods still need a tax abatement to support residential development, but not Broad and Spruce.

On the other hand, if the school problem is not fixed, then the Center City market will continue to be mostly composed of young professionals at the start of their careers and empty nesters. It is the mid career professionals who make the most money, pay the most taxes, and most importantly control where their businesses are located. These people typically have school age children and would prefer not to pay ~$20,000 per child per year for private school. They will never stay in the city unless the school problem is fixed.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 5:28 PM
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Philly has seen a population increase, no doubt. Roughly 9.2% over a decade. Compared to 14.8% for Boston and 12.2% for NYC. I would hardly call it a boom. I suppose as a relative newcomer to the city (4 years) I really consider CC to be Philly whereas it is much more than that.

I live in Philadelphia because I currently work here. If I am going to be jacked for 4% I might as well get some benefit. The city has crappy schools, a wage tax and a decent, but not amazing job market. I support anything that entices people to live and buy in this city as I think it will make it better. IMO, if you increase the cost of living in this city it will become less enticing for people (hence why I support the abatement).

As for saying negative things about this city, so what. This is a forum to talk about real estate development, not a cheerleading squad. I've lived and will live in other cities and get no pride or embarrassment from a zip code.

As for my cleaning up comment, once again, as a newcomer that is my opinion. You have nice Rittenhouse and then you waste land Market St. The city (once again, IMO) is filling in the rough spots, but it needs more people living and working in the city, and more building.

So I will continue to discuss building and development in the city and when appropriate, make an opinion based comment on my impression of Philadelphia. If that comes off negative I hope you understand that it isn't direct at you, just at one mans opinion of a city.
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 5:30 PM
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Again, I am all for fixing the schools. I simply think it is not a monetary issue. More money =/= better schools.


My girlfriend teaches at a Catholic school around here and the crap she deals with is ridiculous and has nothing to do with funding. You could air drop a billion dollars on schools in NE Philly and nothing would change.
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 5:32 PM
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Guys.

Great conversation but it doesn't really belong in this thread. This thread is about the development of SLS International.
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 6:38 PM
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bywoods View Post
As upwardly mobile (but not wealthy) professionals, my wife and I are exactly the type of people the city needs to attract and retain. We live in a gentrified center city neighborhood and we pay lots of wage, sales, and real estate taxes. We could afford a much larger house in the suburbs, despite the higher RE taxes. However, we choose to live in a smaller home in the city for the walkable neighborhoods and amenities.

It is impossible to underemphasize the impact of the school budget issues on our willingness to remain in the city once our son is old enough for school. We live in a good catchment, with an elementary school that is not violent and is filled with a diverse array of motivated students from good families. The price of private school for a single child is an order of magnitude higher than real estate taxes for a center city or suburban home. We will be forced to abandon the city if our local school does not have the funding to pay for necessary staff like nurses or guidance counselors.

Right now, Center City residential real estate is booming. New apartment buildings are filling quickly despite high rents, and houses are flying off the market. The tax abatement program helped get things kicked off, and I'm sure many neighborhoods still need a tax abatement to support residential development, but not Broad and Spruce.

On the other hand, if the school problem is not fixed, then the Center City market will continue to be mostly composed of young professionals at the start of their careers and empty nesters. It is the mid career professionals who make the most money, pay the most taxes, and most importantly control where their businesses are located. These people typically have school age children and would prefer not to pay ~$20,000 per child per year for private school. They will never stay in the city unless the school problem is fixed.
Your analysis and thoughts are dead on. I've lived in the city for years when I was single, but with young kids now, it's a really hard pill to take unless you pay for private school or get into a good catchment zone up to high school. Imagine the amount of construction and economic development growth beyond what is happening today if young families with a good paying profession could raise their kids and be afforded a great public education that the city has to offer. Philly's public schools are holding back the exponential growth of the city. If I could, I would be back in a heartbeat with my family if the schools weren't a hot mess.
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2013, 8:04 PM
MusicMan84 MusicMan84 is offline
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Guys.

Great conversation but it doesn't really belong in this thread. This thread is about the development of SLS International.
This.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 12:15 AM
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There is an image with SLS in the skyline that flashes on the top of the below page:

http://www.sbe.com/slshotels/philadelphia
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 12:28 AM
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 12:40 AM
eliasrapp98 eliasrapp98 is offline
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http://s1102.photobucket.com/user/el...f89f9.png.html

Here is the render from the SLS website.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 1:06 AM
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That is a bit...big.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 1:27 AM
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Originally Posted by eliasrapp98 View Post
http://s1102.photobucket.com/user/el...f89f9.png.html

Here is the render from the SLS website.
Love it!
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 2:06 AM
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This project has the chance to be a game changer on the skyline and for future development along Broad South of South. This will have a great visual impact on the skyline from the south, east and west.

Hopefully this is the push to spurn future development and replace older buildings no longer in demand. Maybe move some of those gas stations.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 2:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyers2001 View Post
This project has the chance to be a game changer on the skyline and for future development along Broad South of South. This will have a great visual impact on the skyline from the south, east and west.

Hopefully this is the push to spurn future development and replace older buildings no longer in demand. Maybe move some of those gas stations.
Hopefully, it is a bit desolate along that stretch of Broad St.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 2:22 AM
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I had to read through a couple of pages regarding what "tax abatements" are in Philly but it looks like a nice design. Miami breaks ground on their SLS Brickell tomorrow at 550 ft. and I don't think we have tax abatements here either but good luck on this project!
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 2:06 PM
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That is a bit...big.
Sorry. I did not know how to make it smaller and did not realize it was going to be that big. Do you want me to remove it?
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 3:07 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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I wonder if this would be an option for visiting sports teams or performers. Not like they would take the subway to the stadium, but it's still quite convenient to the stadiums, at least relative to other luxury, Center City hotels.
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