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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 4:42 AM
Mininari Mininari is offline
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Highway One Improvements: North Vancouver / Ironworkers Memorial Approach

With the bulk of the Port Mann / Highway One Improvement project complete, the Province and the District of North Vancouver appear to be working together to address some of the horrendous traffic congestion around the North End of the Second Narrows Bridge.

We've talked about this on other threads, as potentially up to $150M worth of projects may be in the pipe for the area. Improvements are already taking shape (e.g. Keith Road extension), and more are in the works (e.g. Fern / Seymour connectivity improvements), and finally with today's announcement for a full interchange to replace the Mountain Highway Overpass by 2018.

The big one in everyone's mind would certainly be the hodgepodge of 60's awfulness that is immediately north of the Second Narrows (interchanges close together, no shoulders on the highway, etc. It would appear that todays announcement (along with other work in progress) may represent the first steps in a phased approach to improving the entire area (i.e. system upgrade), and therefore I thought it appropriate to start a thread on this set of much-needed improvements to Highway One in the North Shore.

Lets post real news, discuss ideas for improvements, or simply speculate.

http://www.news1130.com/2014/11/12/m...l-interchange/

Jill Drews November 12, 2014 2:40 pm

NORTH VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) – Changes are coming to Highway One in North Vancouver.

...
The Mountain Highway Overpass is being replaced with a full interchange at a cost of $36 million. The project is aimed at easing congestion around the approach to the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge.

...The MP for North Vancouver, Andrew Saxton, says construction will be complete by Spring of 2018...

Many people in North Vancouver had hoped all the on-ramps, like the dangerous yield from Dollarton Highway and congested Main Street interchange, could be replaced. Planners aren’t ruling that out.
...

http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/2014/1...rtnership.html

Previous news story from August 21 regarding Fern Street / Mt. Seymour Parkway connection / redesign

http://www.nsnews.com/news/ministry-...esign-1.595871

Ministry to unveil Highway 1 intersection redesign
Keith Lynn, Fern Street plans may aid Seymour commuters

Brent Richter / North Shore News
August 21, 2013 12:00 AM
- See more at: http://www.nsnews.com/news/ministry-....Ousad4oC.dpuf

...
The project includes extending Keith Road around the Seylynn development to Mount Seymour Parkway via Fern Street overpass, widening the Keith Road bridge to four lanes, upgrades and a new park-and-ride lot for Phibbs Exchange, and a possible reroute of the Dollarton Highway and Mountain Highway on- and off-ramps
...
The project is expected to cost between $70 and $130 million over 10 to 15 years. But the province and federal government should be putting up two-thirds of the cost, leaving the district on the hook for the remainder, Bassam said.
...
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 4:56 AM
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I would hope they redo every interchange all the way to lonsdale, minimum of six lanes from the second narrows bridge all the way to lonsdale as well. This would be a good start in my opinion. Then they can start work west of westview.
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 6:10 AM
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Out of super passive-aggressive curiosity, why isn't this transportation investment contingent upon the successful outcome of a referendum?
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  #4  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 8:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
Out of super passive-aggressive curiosity, why isn't this transportation investment contingent upon the successful outcome of a referendum?
Large agree. Question seconded.
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 8:11 AM
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VancouverOfTheFuture VancouverOfTheFuture is offline
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Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
Out of super passive-aggressive curiosity, why isn't this transportation investment contingent upon the successful outcome of a referendum?
probably because transit cant help move goods like containers and what-not. those do add money to the economy that a lot of people forget to factor in when thinking about road infrastructure. they think about benefits to car drivers yet forget that goods movements add a lot more.

mass transit only moves people, not goods. roads move both.

there is also a difference between 150/300 million and a couple billion. it also doesn't help when the road as been a problem since the 1960's and I'm sure isn't all that safe. lets not forget an idling car puts our more emissions then a moving car. as evident when i go 450km on a tank of gas in the city and 800km on the freeway when at a constant speed.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 8:18 AM
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VancouverOfTheFuture...research shows that it's not "idling cars" that put out the most emissions of pollutants but rather stop and go traffic!
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 8:20 AM
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VancouverOfTheFuture...research shows that it's not "idling cars" that put out the most emissions of pollutants but rather stop and go traffic!
well when i said idling i meant stop-and-go traffic. my bad on that; a bad choice of words. basically city driving is the worst for pollution was the point i was trying to get across.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 11:14 AM
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I almost can't believe this is happening. I've been waiting so long for the Keith road/Lynn Creek bridge fix, watching the traffic back up all the way to my condo near Lonsdale every afternoon, and in four years I'll be able to get on the highway from Brooksbank?! It's so simple and brilliant I don't know why they didn't do this sooner. I assumed maybe it was too steep of an incline from the top of Brooksbank, which is currently just forest.


Photo from news1130.ca

This will have a huge impact. Hope they still fix the other interchange to the east though.

It looks like they'll be building two new parallel Lynn Creek bridges too?!!??! (one for Keith road is already about to start) The blue part fades out over the creek and that bridge is ancient. Is this real life?

This will be great for my home and my employer. And they will really have to rename "lower" Mountain Highway now.

Last edited by Pinion; Nov 13, 2014 at 11:34 AM.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
Out of super passive-aggressive curiosity, why isn't this transportation investment contingent upon the successful outcome of a referendum?
First thing I thought of as well. I'm not against this upgrade, but the bias is so clear.
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  #10  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
I almost can't believe this is happening. I've been waiting so long for the Keith road/Lynn Creek bridge fix, watching the traffic back up all the way to my condo near Lonsdale every afternoon, and in four years I'll be able to get on the highway from Brooksbank?! It's so simple and brilliant I don't know why they didn't do this sooner. I assumed maybe it was too steep of an incline from the top of Brooksbank, which is currently just forest.


Photo from news1130.ca

This will have a huge impact. Hope they still fix the other interchange to the east though.

It looks like they'll be building two new parallel Lynn Creek bridges too?!!??! (one for Keith road is already about to start) The blue part fades out over the creek and that bridge is ancient. Is this real life?

This will be great for my home and my employer. And they will really have to rename "lower" Mountain Highway now.
Whats the rationale behind only TCH Westbound and Mountain Hwy Northbound only having left turn lanes?
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
probably because transit cant help move goods like containers and what-not. those do add money to the economy that a lot of people forget to factor in when thinking about road infrastructure. they think about benefits to car drivers yet forget that goods movements add a lot more.

mass transit only moves people, not goods. roads move both.

there is also a difference between 150/300 million and a couple billion. it also doesn't help when the road as been a problem since the 1960's and I'm sure isn't all that safe. lets not forget an idling car puts our more emissions then a moving car. as evident when i go 450km on a tank of gas in the city and 800km on the freeway when at a constant speed.
Mass Transit doesn't only move people. It gets people out of their cars off the roads which elevates road congestion and allows improved movement of goods. Mass Transit directly correlates to improved goods movement.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 5:48 PM
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Last edited by spm2013; Nov 16, 2014 at 7:31 AM.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 7:40 PM
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Mass Transit doesn't only move people. It gets people out of their cars off the roads which elevates road congestion and allows improved movement of goods. Mass Transit directly correlates to improved goods movement.
Properly phrased, that would actually be an indirect correlation. That said, I understand and agree with your point. However, I also agree with the point made earlier that the reason for no referendum here is the significant price difference between a 150 million dollar project and a billion dollar project.

Also, have you driven that road recently? It's terrible. I wont go through there with a trailer attached anymore because it poses a significant hazard to myself and others.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 9:16 PM
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Well I'm sure the left turn lanes probably are designed that way to help flow traffic in the area. They don't want traffic coming down Mountain Highway and funnelling onto the bridge here (and backing up Mountain Highway) etc.
It could also be a safety issue if traffic backs up Mountain Highway - i.e. speed coming down hill (esp. in winter and the risk of rear-enders) - although they are putting in a traffic light at the bottom of that hill. Hmmm.

The other obvious answer would be that a left turn lane to eastbound TCH would require a wider, 5 lane overpass.

I wonder if the overpass will be built so it can be expanded?
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 9:19 PM
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Phibbs Exchange bus loop is right in the middle of this mess they're trying to fix. Getting traffic moving could actually make buses run on time/show up, which they almost never do east of Lonsdale. It can take me an hour to get from Lonsdale to Ironworkers sometimes.

No disputing that roads get preferential treatment, but this helps everyone.

Having a port nearby seems to be the key to getting infrastructure upgrades in Vancouver these days.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 9:37 PM
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There is not really much they can do to transit in this area that will fix the bottlenecks. Too much of the east-west traffic getting over the highway is car based. The ramps, bridges, overpasses, etc need to be fixed to get any transit improvements to work properly first. SO glad to see this happening, it is definitely overdue.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
probably because transit cant help move goods like containers and what-not. those do add money to the economy that a lot of people forget to factor in when thinking about road infrastructure. they think about benefits to car drivers yet forget that goods movements add a lot more.
The "Goods movement" argument is rolled out each time highway improvements have to be justified. Yes, goods movement is important - but it's not why highways have to be improved. Congestion is really caused by single-occupancy private vehicles, not by the relatively few trucks that are actually moving goods around.

If people really, truly wanted goods to move more efficiently then instead of spending billions upon billions on one road expansion project after another they would advocate for road pricing to reduce the number of single occupancy vehicles. That would solve the congestion problem, and instead of costing a lot of money it would actually raise the money required to implement it and then some.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2014, 11:31 PM
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Is the overpass the problem? For me, the Lynn Creek bridge is a nightmare especially for the vehicles that merge onto Hwy 1 right before the bridge. These merging vehicles slow everything down.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.31275...X1oDDNOdBA!2e0
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Old Posted Nov 14, 2014, 12:26 AM
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Is the overpass the problem? For me, the Lynn Creek bridge is a nightmare especially for the vehicles that merge onto Hwy 1 right before the bridge. These merging vehicles slow everything down.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.31275...X1oDDNOdBA!2e0
Agreed... that bridge is a major bottleneck. If it weren't for all the traffic getting on there, and many of them off again at the Mountain Hwy exit a few hundred meters west.. it would flow better. Something should have changed here years ago!!

I hope they start on this quickly. I hate going to North Van because of this whole area.
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Old Posted Nov 14, 2014, 1:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
The "Goods movement" argument is rolled out each time highway improvements have to be justified. Yes, goods movement is important - but it's not why highways have to be improved. Congestion is really caused by single-occupancy private vehicles, not by the relatively few trucks that are actually moving goods around.

If people really, truly wanted goods to move more efficiently then instead of spending billions upon billions on one road expansion project after another they would advocate for road pricing to reduce the number of single occupancy vehicles. That would solve the congestion problem, and instead of costing a lot of money it would actually raise the money required to implement it and then some.
The truth is in the middle. Many SOV that are not moving goods are being driven by people conducting work that requires a vehicle in order to move around their tools and equipment. For example my brother and my brother in law both have jobs that require a vehicle. One installs elevators and the other is a safety manager for a construction company. Not moving goods, but both go to countless construction sites every day and need to bring their tools and equipment with them.

Highways also move buses, which is transit.

Also our highways do need to be improved, especially old bridges and very outdated interchange designs.

That being said I agree that the transit expansion plan should not be based on a referendum, and should just be funded as easily as highway projects, but bringing this up in every highway project thread and derailing the conversation is getting close to trolling IMO.

Maybe we should have a seperate thread about the referendum and why it is a stupid idea?
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