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  #1  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2015, 9:42 AM
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Bus linking Chilliwack to Abbotsford to start April 6

Bus linking Chilliwack to Abbotsford to start April 6

http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/news/290942261.html

In two months, Chilliwack residents will, for the first time, be able to take public transit to Abbotsford and Langley, which will link them to other systems to travel as far as Vancouver and on to the ferry terminals.

The long-awaited Fraser Valley Express launches April 6 with service from downtown Chilliwack terminating at Translink’s Carvolth Transit Exchange in Langley.



great news for the valley!
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Old Posted Feb 6, 2015, 7:10 PM
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http://www.aldergrovestar.com/news/290684211.html

Fraser Valley Express bus service will launch in April
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 7:51 PM
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Not a bad start, although, in my opinion, it is sort of a nowhere-to-nowhere service since it connects isolated transit exchanges rather than destinations. A far more useful connection would be from Chilliwack to downtown Abbotsford via UFV, or at least the Bourquin exchange, and then going further than the Carvolth exchange - say to Surrey Centre via Guildford.

Also, BC Transit's Fraser Valley page is a mess. They don't even have a working map!
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 9:03 PM
Kisai Kisai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Not a bad start, although, in my opinion, it is sort of a nowhere-to-nowhere service since it connects isolated transit exchanges rather than destinations. A far more useful connection would be from Chilliwack to downtown Abbotsford via UFV, or at least the Bourquin exchange, and then going further than the Carvolth exchange - say to Surrey Centre via Guildford.

Also, BC Transit's Fraser Valley page is a mess. They don't even have a working map!
I wouldn't expect anything to be up until it's launched otherwise people will stand around waiting for a bus that doesn't arrive.

http://bctransit.com/servlet/documents/1403642415346
Maps and schedules are there.
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Old Posted Feb 8, 2015, 10:08 PM
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Bravo! That is great to see services being connected from the valley to Translink. I would like to see a similar service connecting Pemberton to Translink with stops in Whistler, Squamish, Britannia Beach, Lions Bay, Horseshoe Bay and finishing at the Quay. These communities already have a population that commute to the Translink catchment area.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Not a bad start, although, in my opinion, it is sort of a nowhere-to-nowhere service since it connects isolated transit exchanges rather than destinations. A far more useful connection would be from Chilliwack to downtown Abbotsford via UFV, or at least the Bourquin exchange, and then going further than the Carvolth exchange - say to Surrey Centre via Guildford.

Also, BC Transit's Fraser Valley page is a mess. They don't even have a working map!
At first I wasn't crazy about it going to Carvolth Exchange as opposed to a SkyTrain station like Braid, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. If BC Transit will be the one operating this route, they really wouldn't want to be paying for a portion that would directly cover Translink territory. Carvolth Exchange is the easternmost Translink exchange on Highway 1, so it's a great place to terminate, with connections to Braid, Surrey Central, Maple Ridge and Langley City. It might not be ideal, but from a business perspective it makes sense. If Translink ever expands to cover even just Abbotsford, I have a feeling this route would be expanded to Braid or Lougheed pretty much right away.

The only issue I do have with this is one that we both agree on: where it stops in Abbotsford. I guess they're trying to get it to Langley from Chilliwack as fast as they can–according to their estimated travel times on the document, it will take 79 minutes to go from Chilliwack to Carvolth Exchange, and 143 minutes to go downtown Vancouver–but having it actually stop in downtown Abbotsford would make connections a lot easier for people travelling both from and to Abbotsford. And while I admittedly spend little time there, I can't imagine that traffic along South Fraser Way is that bad that you can't stop at Bourquin Exchange and then re-enter the highway at Peardonville Road. I think that would be a much more useful stop than the one they have at High Street, which with its complicated Highway 1 interchanges will add quite a lot of travel time for much less benefit.

Do we have any forumers from the Fraser Valley? It'd be interesting to hear what they have to say about this. Personally I'm really excited for this as it forms a stronger connection with the Valley. Other than the Abbotsford stops I don't really have any complaints. It'll run both directions, and on Saturdays too!

P.S. It looks like they took down their information document on the website about this route, I wonder why that was? Luckily I already had it saved to my phone so I'm still able to reference it.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 1:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SOSS View Post
Bravo! That is great to see services being connected from the valley to Translink. I would like to see a similar service connecting Pemberton to Translink with stops in Whistler, Squamish, Britannia Beach, Lions Bay, Horseshoe Bay and finishing at the Quay. These communities already have a population that commute to the Translink catchment area.
It makes sense and I think it will happen eventually, but as of now I don't know if the population can support it. The Sea-to-Sky communities combine to have less than 15,000 people, while Abbotsford and Chilliwack have over 200,000 people and are just getting this service now.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 2:13 AM
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It makes sense and I think it will happen eventually, but as of now I don't know if the population can support it. The Sea-to-Sky communities combine to have less than 15,000 people, while Abbotsford and Chilliwack have over 200,000 people and are just getting this service now.
Great point. Population may allow for a limited 'rush hour' service schedule similar to WCE in the short-term.
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  #9  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 4:46 AM
Conrad Yablonski Conrad Yablonski is offline
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transfers to get to the ferries in 222 minutes.
Last I checked that was almost four (4) hours-no one in their right mind is going to use this for that purpose.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 5:40 AM
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Last I checked that was almost four (4) hours-no one in their right mind is going to use this for that purpose.
I'm a big proponent of passenger only ferry service leaving DT Vancouver at Waterfront. Taking transit to the existing ferry services are not very practical unless you live near the terminals.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 7:41 AM
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I'm a big proponent of passenger only ferry service leaving DT Vancouver at Waterfront. Taking transit to the existing ferry services are not very practical unless you live near the terminals.
Large agree. With service to downtown Victoria, not Swartz Bay. Besides getting to the terminal, the service would probably be much faster because they wouldn't have to deal with 200+ cars getting on before departing.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOSS View Post
Bravo! That is great to see services being connected from the valley to Translink. I would like to see a similar service connecting Pemberton to Translink with stops in Whistler, Squamish, Britannia Beach, Lions Bay, Horseshoe Bay and finishing at the Quay. These communities already have a population that commute to the Translink catchment area.
There must be some old BC Rail dayliner railcars floating around somewhere that could be used for such a service.

My understanding is the province retains ownership of the rail lines and CN has some long-term lease with a provision permitting passenger rail server to be restored at any time.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 3:16 PM
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You guys who love the passenger ferry idea should start a company. Maybe you'll succeed where others have failed.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 7:17 PM
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You guys who love the passenger ferry idea should start a company. Maybe you'll succeed where others have failed.
Sadly I don't have the capital $ to start such a service.

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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 8:20 PM
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You guys who love the passenger ferry idea should start a company. Maybe you'll succeed where others have failed.
I'll give you a point of reference.

The Victoria Clipper costs 93.50USD to take from Waterfront Seattle to Waterfront Victoria in one direction.

Comfort-wise, it's worse than BC Ferries (16.25$) and Amtrak Cascades (typically a low of 40$ but can go up past 60$ without prior reservation.) But saves a lot more time, since a full circuit involves a 5 hour trip on the train, plus another 2 hour trip to BC Ferries Tsawwassen via Skytrain/bus. 7 additional hours to save 20$, not worth it The comfort level of the Victoria Clipper is better than an airplane and bus however.

Consider how much your time is worth. An Airplane from Seattle to Victoria is 330$ one day in advance, one way, and takes 45 minutes (but 2 hours of waiting in lines.) Compare to the Victoria Clipper which takes... 2 hours and 45 minutes. The only problem is that it only runs once per day.

By comparison, to get from Vancouver to Victoria:
175$ one day in advance, one way by Air (From YVR)
205$ one day in advance, one way by Harbor Air (from Vancouver Waterfront)
16.25$ at the gate, one way, by BC Ferries.

People may complain that BC Ferries is expensive, but it's a bargain compared to flying. And yes BC Ferries has a more "Luxury-class" feel to it.

Comparing the Black Ball line or the Washington State ferries for completeness:
17.50USD, at the gate, one way, on the Coho by Black Ball line (Port Angeles, don't even ask how to get there from Seattle, it's impossible to make the trip in the same day.) Departs once or twice per day, or sometimes never (like right now.) 90 minute trip.
19.05USD, at the gate, one way, WSDOT, 2 hours 40 minutes. Sidney (near BC Ferries)/Anacortes (Not possible to make a passenger-only same-day trip from Seattle to Sidney on the Washington State Ferries utilizing only the transit system.)

Once you take a car into consideration:
WSDOT - 23.50 to 34.05(peak), no reservation available.
Black Ball - 62.00USD (72$ if reservation made online)
BC Ferries - 69.50CAD (88$ CAD if reservation made online)

So if you could find a way to operate a passenger-only ferry:
It would need to charge less than BC Ferries 16.25 to justify using it over BC Ferries, even taking into account the 5$ it might cost to 3-zone travel to get there.
It would need to take less than 95 minutes to justify using it instead of BC Ferries.

If you're trying to make it an alternative to flying, you would need to still figure out how to make the trip closer to 45 minutes, but you could then charge a much higher fare, but you'd have much less trips.

And this is why I believe nobody ever tries to do this. It just does not make economical sense to run a passenger-only ferry when BC Ferries already operates the cheapest passenger rate. Saving 2 hours on a bus just to have the terminus somewhere near Vancouver's waterfront would require a high level of passengers, and would still require some place to dock in downtown Victoria to make it worth doing, otherwise people would be getting off in Sidney and still have to take a series of buses to get downtown.

The fact that the Canada Line goes to YVR, actually would justify moving the main Nanaimo-Horseshoe Bay route to YVR. As this would cut the sailing distance down.

And this has gone off topic.

If you're coming from the Fraser Valley to take a ferry without driving, you're going to take whatever is there. People who take transit might not be poor or cheapskates, they just don't want to drive, and there is a certain level of tolerance people will put up with to make the trip.

Just to push the idea back, there is a not a population base to support high speed rail to the Fraser Valley. But this is the only way you're not going to spend a huge amount of time trying to get to the Island. As much as people like Malcom like to whine about the Skytrain, it is the only rapid transit we have. Having the Fraser Valley Express is one step in the right direction, if it has low-use, then don't ever expect a rail line.
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Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 8:36 PM
Conrad Yablonski Conrad Yablonski is offline
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You guys who love the passenger ferry idea should start a company. Maybe you'll succeed where others have failed.
The proposed Nanaimo foot ferry is still in the cards
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  #17  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 1:43 AM
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I think a passenger ferry terminal on the Canada line wouldn't be a bad idea at all, as long as it is connected directly to a Skytrain station. It is qualitatively several levels better to make one Skytrain connection than to have to make a transfer to a random bus and read schedules for it, figuring out how Richmond brighouse bus loop works and which 600 levels not to take, etc., and then wait for the whole steamy ride down to the ferry terminal. As long as all potential passenger services would be willing to operate from the Richmond terminal it would be great.
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  #18  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 4:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kisai View Post
I'll give you a point of reference.

The Victoria Clipper costs 93.50USD to take from Waterfront Seattle to Waterfront Victoria in one direction.

Comfort-wise, it's worse than BC Ferries (16.25$) and Amtrak Cascades (typically a low of 40$ but can go up past 60$ without prior reservation.) But saves a lot more time, since a full circuit involves a 5 hour trip on the train, plus another 2 hour trip to BC Ferries Tsawwassen via Skytrain/bus. 7 additional hours to save 20$, not worth it The comfort level of the Victoria Clipper is better than an airplane and bus however.

....

If you're coming from the Fraser Valley to take a ferry without driving, you're going to take whatever is there. People who take transit might not be poor or cheapskates, they just don't want to drive, and there is a certain level of tolerance people will put up with to make the trip.

Just to push the idea back, there is a not a population base to support high speed rail to the Fraser Valley. But this is the only way you're not going to spend a huge amount of time trying to get to the Island. As much as people like Malcom like to whine about the Skytrain, it is the only rapid transit we have. Having the Fraser Valley Express is one step in the right direction, if it has low-use, then don't ever expect a rail line.
The Cost of taking the current Bus service from downtown Vancouver to Downtown Victoria is quite a bit more that BC Ferries.

http://www.pacificcoach.com/Bus-Coac...er-to-victoria

It is actually $40.00 + 16.25 = $56.25.

That said, this is not a money making venture. Perhaps this can lose less money that BC Ferries.

The Black ball service does connect with a bus service to SEA Airport. It takes quite a while to get there but can make an evening flight out of Seattle if time things correctly. Perhaps its is worth it to someone who has lots of time on their hands and wants to save some money on Air Travel, e..g. Seniors. A demographic that is somewhat attracted to the Victoria area.

Getting back to the topic of this threat. The idea of a bus service form the Valley to BC Ferries terminal is a good one. Perhaps Pacific Coach lines will give it a try connecting with their existing cross water bus service.
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Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 4:11 AM
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I would think that a higher (say $20 per trip or even $25) rate would make a passenger only ferry from DT Vancouver to DT Victoria viable. Even though It's a bit more then the current walk on prices, think about the catchment area. I would argue that DT Vancouver is the easiest single destination to get to from anywhere in Metro Vancouver. Therefore it makes the most sense to have DT Vancouver near Waterfront the terminal. I really do think BC Ferries could operate such an endeavor profitably. A higher speed ferry (perhaps hovercraft) would be required to make transit times as short as possible.
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Old Posted Feb 10, 2015, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SOSS View Post
I would think that a higher (say $20 per trip or even $25) rate would make a passenger only ferry from DT Vancouver to DT Victoria viable. Even though It's a bit more then the current walk on prices, think about the catchment area. I would argue that DT Vancouver is the easiest single destination to get to from anywhere in Metro Vancouver. Therefore it makes the most sense to have DT Vancouver near Waterfront the terminal. I really do think BC Ferries could operate such an endeavor profitably. A higher speed ferry (perhaps hovercraft) would be required to make transit times as short as possible.
Yes, there is the other aspect which is speed improvements given the ferry isn't carrying so many vehicles. Catamarans are so much faster than the BC Ferries boats.
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