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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2015, 4:20 PM
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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I doubt this will be the final rendering. And, While Norman Foster is the architect, I think he has to take into account the needs of Penn and incorporate it into the design. PennFirst team comprises of various disciplines, including executives, doctors, nurses, etc. I imagine they want this building to function for the staff as well as the patients.
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2015, 4:34 PM
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I think the design for the Patient Pavillion is incredible. Classic Foster; simple shape, interest is in its texture. Wheras the example of the Johns Hopkins expansion is exactly what they'll have no qualm tearing down in 50 years if they need to. People will be fighting to save the Patient Pabilion. It's timeless, it will age well, it will be applauded not for what you see in the renderings, but for what you see when you are standing twelve inches from it; the quality materials, the detail, the craftsmanship of one-off facade fabrications.
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2015, 5:55 PM
BenKatzPhillytoParis BenKatzPhillytoParis is offline
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Originally Posted by Human Scale View Post
I think the design for the Patient Pavillion is incredible. Classic Foster; simple shape, interest is in its texture. Wheras the example of the Johns Hopkins expansion is exactly what they'll have no qualm tearing down in 50 years if they need to. People will be fighting to save the Patient Pabilion. It's timeless, it will age well, it will be applauded not for what you see in the renderings, but for what you see when you are standing twelve inches from it; the quality materials, the detail, the craftsmanship of one-off facade fabrications.
Yeah, I mean, obviously another issue about taste, but I like this design much more than the Johns Hopkins and Chicago hospitals. The materials and massing in both are really boring. The Johns Hopkins just looks like a bunch of brick, massed orthogonally, with some 1919 market type glass...
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2015, 8:12 PM
ajaxean ajaxean is offline
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I don't know how you can say it doesn't communicate well with anything nearby. It clearly plays off of the rotunda from the Museum of Anthropology and draws similarities to CHOP's Buerger center as well
I can see that's what they were going for, but it's just not smart for the actual site. If you walk by in person, the Museum Rotunda from the back side really isn't very impressive or even nice. From the back, it's just a completely solid brown brick wall that is visually dead from street level. It's something you'd expect an early architectural student to latch onto, but it's misguided based on how the medical campus works in reality. You'd be showcasing the worst, most human-unfriendly side of the Museum Campus.

Likewise, with CHOP'S Buerger Center (which I incidentally think is fantastic), the reality of the site is that there are very few spots coming from the East where you will actually see both buildings together. Because of how Civic Center Blvd curves, the New Patient Pavilion has a much much stronger visual relationship with CHOP's Main Building, and the Perelman Center (a monstrosity, but it is what it is). Personally, I think this Pavilion is a huge missed opportunity to help harmonize what is otherwise a pretty architecturally chaotic area (Penn's fault, not CHOP's).

That said, there's a chance that it might look very good coming from the West along Civic Center Blvd, since you'll have the two curved towers of the CHOP Buerger Center and the curved CHOP South Tower with Penn's New Patient Pavilion in the background. But Still, Civic Center Blvd is one-way to car traffic, so that view will not be a common one to the public and isn't the view that should have been prioritized when designing the site.

But obviously, I don't get a say. It's gonna be built either way. Frankly, I just expected more for over a billion dollars.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2015, 8:41 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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I dont think the price tag has much to do with the architecture. medical buildings are very expensive for many reasons- the least of which is probably the design or material palette.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 2:02 AM
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Personally, I think this Pavilion is a huge missed opportunity to help harmonize what is otherwise a pretty architecturally chaotic area (Penn's fault, not CHOP's).
Indeed a lesson in everybody's taste being different. I feel this building will be the harmony of the complex.
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  #67  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2015, 9:08 PM
jjv007 jjv007 is offline
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I dont think the price tag has much to do with the architecture. medical buildings are very expensive for many reasons- the least of which is probably the design or material palette.
My thoughts exactly, I don't think it has the same price tag as CITC for purely its architectural quality.
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  #68  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2015, 9:13 AM
shadowbat2 shadowbat2 is offline
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Demo update:
053 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

054 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

055 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

056 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

061 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr
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  #69  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2015, 12:32 AM
GarCastle GarCastle is offline
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The design is leagues above Penn Tower LOL.

I hope it meets its main purpose, that staff can get patients to the O/R quickly from nearly anywhere, that the central and satellite pharmacies and labs will be well placed, and that the radiology scanners are as well. It should be easy for visitors to navigate, easy to get large gear around in the back hallways, and have better clustering of related units/floors so housestaff do not have to "round" from the 4th floor of this building to the 11th of that building and so forth. It should also be as far from scary as possible since going to the hospital terrifies many patients. And of course it has to be a successful and event-free transition when we move the patients.

I will always agree that Perelman is hideous so at least this will block view of that from several angles.

Cheers,
G.
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2015, 1:06 AM
shadowbat2 shadowbat2 is offline
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I just wonder what will happen to the old hospital. I know they are planning more academic space, but I'm wondering will it involve gutting and reuse, or wholesale demolition/replacement, or a combination of the two....
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  #71  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2015, 10:43 AM
Flyers2001 Flyers2001 is offline
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I just wonder what will happen to the old hospital. I know they are planning more academic space, but I'm wondering will it involve gutting and reuse, or wholesale demolition/replacement, or a combination of the two....
I heard eventual demolition. Some of those buildings are really old, like Gates, not sure the attractiveness to the University would be.

That is a huge amount of space, I can see a variety of thins the school can do with the property.
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2015, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis View Post
The pedestrian path to UC regional rail is key. The route by Franklin Field is just such an out-of-the-way path to get to this huge dense hospital complex.
I'm not sure if they made a decision, but they were throwing around ideas of a bridge to University City Trains station or a tunnel. They want to avoid the pedestrian traffic on Health Service Drive.
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2015, 2:46 PM
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I just wonder what will happen to the old hospital. I know they are planning more academic space, but I'm wondering will it involve gutting and reuse, or wholesale demolition/replacement, or a combination of the two....
Nurses from the cardiac and G.I. Units in the old building are being brought to the scaled mock-ups to critique the design, identify pinch points, etc. so we can assume those units are moving to the new building. At the same time nursing education has been told their facilities will expand. They are currently housed in the old OLD (historic?) part of the hospital with the Spruce Street entrance.
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2015, 12:37 AM
shadowbat2 shadowbat2 is offline
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They've started work on dismantling the bridge between Penn Tower and Perelman....
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  #75  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2015, 9:14 AM
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They've started work on dismantling the bridge between Penn Tower and Perelman....
Yup, totally down! Moving along nicely with demo. Not playing around.
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  #76  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 2:16 AM
GarCastle GarCastle is offline
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I got invited to the design team so I'll have occasional news. Basically there are different design teams responsible for different aspects of the building.

The elevators will be in the center with the tower towards HUP being the smaller while the back tower towards the train station will be a bit bigger. There will be several podium levels that span the footprint all the way out to the sidewalk in some areas. Either the front tower will be first with the back bigger tower left for later, or they will both be done at once.

Each team is starting to work up their estimates for everything in the building. The literal number of patient floors/units is liquid as is the total bed count. Each room will be a private single patient room which is a nice step-up from how HUP is now in many areas. These rooms will allow HUP to renovate some of the older/existing floors into single patient rooms as well. So the overall bed count will not sky-rocket. The costs that each team comes up with will actually have input into how many floors are initially planned, if both towers are built at once, and so on.

When I say everything, we're calculating each computer, bed, wiring job, chair, counter, you name it LOL. It's going to be ridiculous, but pretty rewarding if we can get some decent things done. Though I'm pretty sure the physical core & shell team would win out over costly medication delivering Drones, but what the hell I may write the drones in anyway. If I have to ask for 3 (or 5) things to only get 2, then I can adapt to that quickly enough in the projections. LOL

Cheers,
G.
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  #77  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 5:49 AM
BenKatzPhillytoParis BenKatzPhillytoParis is offline
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Originally Posted by GarCastle View Post
I got invited to the design team so I'll have occasional news. Basically there are different design teams responsible for different aspects of the building.

The elevators will be in the center with the tower towards HUP being the smaller while the back tower towards the train station will be a bit bigger. There will be several podium levels that span the footprint all the way out to the sidewalk in some areas. Either the front tower will be first with the back bigger tower left for later, or they will both be done at once.

Each team is starting to work up their estimates for everything in the building. The literal number of patient floors/units is liquid as is the total bed count. Each room will be a private single patient room which is a nice step-up from how HUP is now in many areas. These rooms will allow HUP to renovate some of the older/existing floors into single patient rooms as well. So the overall bed count will not sky-rocket. The costs that each team comes up with will actually have input into how many floors are initially planned, if both towers are built at once, and so on.

When I say everything, we're calculating each computer, bed, wiring job, chair, counter, you name it LOL. It's going to be ridiculous, but pretty rewarding if we can get some decent things done. Though I'm pretty sure the physical core & shell team would win out over costly medication delivering Drones, but what the hell I may write the drones in anyway. If I have to ask for 3 (or 5) things to only get 2, then I can adapt to that quickly enough in the projections. LOL

Cheers,
G.
Interesting. So nothing we know or have seen up to this point is remotely set in stone? It may look completely different than the renderings we've seen?
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  #78  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 10:24 PM
GarCastle GarCastle is offline
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Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis View Post
Interesting. So nothing we know or have seen up to this point is remotely set in stone? It may look completely different than the renderings we've seen?
It sounds like we will stick with the design overall, it's just a matter of whether the back/train-side tower goes up with the core and front tower, or later. Even if the front tower is say 20 floors, we may only "build out" 15 floors if we come up with ungodly costs per floor. It will largely be Intensive Care Units and even the non-ICU floors will be built out partly as ICUs so that they can be switched later if needed, without gutting the floors. So basically even the regular "floors" will be more expansive than most but far cheaper than the ICU "units". The floors would not have the literal respirators, extensive monitors, and other ICU-like devices/equipment but the rooms will have to be plumbed and wired for them.

A close to ideal scenario would be to construct both towers and have the front tower almost completely built out for patients. We can always build out the additional space later. A big chunk of the cost will be the podium/base which will include the new Emergency Department, a pretty massive Radiology space with numerous $xx million each scanner rooms, and so on. We'll know much more after each design team shares their initial projections.

Cheers,
G.
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  #79  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2015, 2:31 AM
christof christof is offline
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It sounds like we will stick with the design overall, it's just a matter of whether the back/train-side tower goes up with the core and front tower, or later. Even if the front tower is say 20 floors, we may only "build out" 15 floors if we come up with ungodly costs per floor. It will largely be Intensive Care Units and even the non-ICU floors will be built out partly as ICUs so that they can be switched later if needed, without gutting the floors. So basically even the regular "floors" will be more expansive than most but far cheaper than the ICU "units". The floors would not have the literal respirators, extensive monitors, and other ICU-like devices/equipment but the rooms will have to be plumbed and wired for them.

A close to ideal scenario would be to construct both towers and have the front tower almost completely built out for patients. We can always build out the additional space later. A big chunk of the cost will be the podium/base which will include the new Emergency Department, a pretty massive Radiology space with numerous $xx million each scanner rooms, and so on. We'll know much more after each design team shares their initial projections.

Cheers,
G.
What is the timeline for this?
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  #80  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2015, 10:06 PM
GarCastle GarCastle is offline
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What is the timeline for this?
Sounds like completion is targeted late 2019 so patient move-in can start in 2020. It's going to get a pretty massive foundation with several sub-grade levels. I'd imagine parking as well, but I haven't seen the prints yet (should be soon).

Cheers,
G.
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