HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1841  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 4:39 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
It's supposedly the Bernier campaign, no? I'm wondering what the fallout will be - I can't see Bernier being obliged to pull out of the campaign, but somebody needs to be sanctioned. It's still unclear how/whether these memberships were somehow to be used to cast fake leadership ballots = that doesn't seem feasible.
I'll bet my life its lietch
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1842  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 8:00 PM
PoscStudent's Avatar
PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St. John's
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
So Lisa Raitt is calling for the Party to expel any leadership candidate found to have violated membership rules. This, as Bernier's campaign accuses O'Leary's Sikh community organizer of offering to pay for other people's memberships (the accusation has been denied).

So far, this issue seems to have had surprisingly little resonace, with the Party itself seemingly thinking that the matter has been addressed by cancelling the improper memberships. Where's the accountability?

What am I missing? This seems like a serious matter to me but I'm beginnig to think that I just don't get it. What the heck is going on?
The party brought in new rules stipulating that memberships have to be paid using a credit card, or by cheque. The reason the new rules were brought in was because in past leadership races - in all parties - you'd have candidates signing up new members and paying their registration fees, etc. So in order to prevent a candidate from buying thousands of memberships they now require proof that each member bought their own membership.

From the party's standpoint, they've shown that their verification process works. Those memberships that were deemed to have been purchased improperly have been canceled.

As for whether a candidate should be disciplined for it - which is more so what you're getting at I think - well that's easier said than done. First, you need to find out who actually did this, the culprit used an anonymous IP address. If that person was found you'd need to link them to a campaign, which should be pretty easy once you know their name. But then what? Say it was Bernier's campaign, do we know if him or his senior campaign staff knew about this? How would you be able to find that out? Should a candidate be disciplined for something a maybe unknown volunteer did? If that's the case one campaign could get their supporters to volunteer for another candidate just to get them in trouble.

The party is likely still reviewing this matter and will probably say more soon.

For all we know the Liberals could have done this and not one of the candidates.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1843  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 9:04 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 11,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
The party brought in new rules stipulating that memberships have to be paid using a credit card, or by cheque. The reason the new rules were brought in was because in past leadership races - in all parties - you'd have candidates signing up new members and paying their registration fees, etc. So in order to prevent a candidate from buying thousands of memberships they now require proof that each member bought their own membership.

From the party's standpoint, they've shown that their verification process works. Those memberships that were deemed to have been purchased improperly have been canceled.

As for whether a candidate should be disciplined for it - which is more so what you're getting at I think - well that's easier said than done. First, you need to find out who actually did this, the culprit used an anonymous IP address. If that person was found you'd need to link them to a campaign, which should be pretty easy once you know their name. But then what? Say it was Bernier's campaign, do we know if him or his senior campaign staff knew about this? How would you be able to find that out? Should a candidate be disciplined for something a maybe unknown volunteer did? If that's the case one campaign could get their supporters to volunteer for another candidate just to get them in trouble.

The party is likely still reviewing this matter and will probably say more soon.

For all we know the Liberals could have done this and not one of the candidates.
Wouldn't THAT be an interesting twist?!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1844  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 12:04 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
The party brought in new rules stipulating that memberships have to be paid using a credit card, or by cheque. The reason the new rules were brought in was because in past leadership races - in all parties - you'd have candidates signing up new members and paying their registration fees, etc. So in order to prevent a candidate from buying thousands of memberships they now require proof that each member bought their own membership.

From the party's standpoint, they've shown that their verification process works. Those memberships that were deemed to have been purchased improperly have been canceled.

As for whether a candidate should be disciplined for it - which is more so what you're getting at I think - well that's easier said than done. First, you need to find out who actually did this, the culprit used an anonymous IP address. If that person was found you'd need to link them to a campaign, which should be pretty easy once you know their name. But then what? Say it was Bernier's campaign, do we know if him or his senior campaign staff knew about this? How would you be able to find that out? Should a candidate be disciplined for something a maybe unknown volunteer did? If that's the case one campaign could get their supporters to volunteer for another candidate just to get them in trouble.

The party is likely still reviewing this matter and will probably say more soon.

For all we know the Liberals could have done this and not one of the candidates.
I don't think any party did it, perhaps it was groups like Leadnow that are infiltrating?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1845  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 10:40 AM
PoscStudent's Avatar
PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St. John's
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
I don't think any party did it, perhaps it was groups like Leadnow that are infiltrating?
It's most definitely a candidate. Trying to get proof of which one and their role in it is the problem.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1846  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 1:54 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 11,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
It's most definitely a candidate. Trying to get proof of which one and their role in it is the problem.
With the goal of casting fraudulent ballots? That's the part that has remained most unclear to me - it seems the most likely purpose, but I don't understand how anybody could pull it off, unless there's significant flaws in the planned voting process.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1847  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 1:55 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 14,283
I think it would be much smarter for the CPC to have a bunch of "superdelegates" picking the party's next leader with the '19 election in mind. They need someone electable in a general election, not merely electable in a CPC election.

The NDP has the exact same problem, for the record -- the new leader their base might decide to vote for could very well suck from the point of view of the voters the party's trying to seduce. After all, didn't that very base of voters vote to get rid of an experienced and respected centrist leader who delivered one of the party's best results ever...? That should tell you what you need to know about them...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1848  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 5:36 PM
PoscStudent's Avatar
PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St. John's
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
With the goal of casting fraudulent ballots? That's the part that has remained most unclear to me - it seems the most likely purpose, but I don't understand how anybody could pull it off, unless there's significant flaws in the planned voting process.
This is the confusing part. I believe the idea is that once the ballots arrived in the mail they'd visit these people and get them to fill out the ballots and get a copy of their ID so that it can be mailed.

It's quite possible that they were signing up people who have limited understanding of all of this. So they may not necessarily know when they receive the ballots that they shouldn't have. Some seem to think the whole thing could be linked to volunteers who had helped Patrick Brown, so because they're Ontario PC supporters they may think they also get a ballot for the CPC.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1849  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 5:38 PM
PoscStudent's Avatar
PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St. John's
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I think it would be much smarter for the CPC to have a bunch of "superdelegates" picking the party's next leader with the '19 election in mind. They need someone electable in a general election, not merely electable in a CPC election.

The NDP has the exact same problem, for the record -- the new leader their base might decide to vote for could very well suck from the point of view of the voters the party's trying to seduce. After all, didn't that very base of voters vote to get rid of an experienced and respected centrist leader who delivered one of the party's best results ever...? That should tell you what you need to know about them...
Who decides superdelegates?

As well, I think what you may be criticizing is democracy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1850  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:05 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 11,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
This is the confusing part. I believe the idea is that once the ballots arrived in the mail they'd visit these people and get them to fill out the ballots and get a copy of their ID so that it can be mailed.

It's quite possible that they were signing up people who have limited understanding of all of this. So they may not necessarily know when they receive the ballots that they shouldn't have. Some seem to think the whole thing could be linked to volunteers who had helped Patrick Brown, so because they're Ontario PC supporters they may think they also get a ballot for the CPC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
Who decides superdelegates?

As well, I think what you may be criticizing is democracy.
True, but this process and the way it has unfolded does make one rather nostalgic for the days of leadership conventions, for all their smoke-filled rooms.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1851  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:35 PM
Loco101's Avatar
Loco101 Loco101 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Timmins, Northern Ontario
Posts: 1,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I think it would be much smarter for the CPC to have a bunch of "superdelegates" picking the party's next leader with the '19 election in mind. They need someone electable in a general election, not merely electable in a CPC election.

The NDP has the exact same problem, for the record -- the new leader their base might decide to vote for could very well suck from the point of view of the voters the party's trying to seduce. After all, didn't that very base of voters vote to get rid of an experienced and respected centrist leader who delivered one of the party's best results ever...? That should tell you what you need to know about them...
I have to agree that the CPC and NDP are in danger of choosing leaders who will not be appealing to a large percentage of voters.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1852  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:37 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I think it would be much smarter for the CPC to have a bunch of "superdelegates" picking the party's next leader with the '19 election in mind. They need someone electable in a general election, not merely electable in a CPC election.

The NDP has the exact same problem, for the record -- the new leader their base might decide to vote for could very well suck from the point of view of the voters the party's trying to seduce. After all, didn't that very base of voters vote to get rid of an experienced and respected centrist leader who delivered one of the party's best results ever...? That should tell you what you need to know about them...
Oh dear god, this is why the democrats won.

If members of the party don't know how to vote than the party shouldn't win.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1853  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:38 PM
Loco101's Avatar
Loco101 Loco101 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Timmins, Northern Ontario
Posts: 1,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
This is the confusing part. I believe the idea is that once the ballots arrived in the mail they'd visit these people and get them to fill out the ballots and get a copy of their ID so that it can be mailed.

It's quite possible that they were signing up people who have limited understanding of all of this. So they may not necessarily know when they receive the ballots that they shouldn't have. Some seem to think the whole thing could be linked to volunteers who had helped Patrick Brown, so because they're Ontario PC supporters they may think they also get a ballot for the CPC.
I still question how Patrick Brown won the ON PC leadership. The Liberals are so happy that Christine Elliott didn't win.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1854  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 1:45 PM
travis3000's Avatar
travis3000 travis3000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
I still question how Patrick Brown won the ON PC leadership. The Liberals are so happy that Christine Elliott didn't win.
Patrick Brown was the underdog. Elliot took the win for granted, and Brown came in from underneath and stole it. Even with his woes, my money is still on him for the next Premier of Ontario. I think he will get a majority too.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1855  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 2:01 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 11,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
Patrick Brown was the underdog. Elliot took the win for granted, and Brown came in from underneath and stole it. Even with his woes, my money is still on him for the next Premier of Ontario. I think he will get a majority too.
As long as he can run a campaign that suggests he can walk and chew gum at the same time, I'd agree with you. Not much of a hurdle, you'd think, but it remains to be seen.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1856  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 2:10 PM
PoscStudent's Avatar
PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St. John's
Posts: 3,613
If people are concerned about the NDP or CPC selecting a leader that doesn't appeal to the general public then they should sign up and vote.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1857  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 2:11 PM
PoscStudent's Avatar
PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St. John's
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
Patrick Brown was the underdog. Elliot took the win for granted, and Brown came in from underneath and stole it. Even with his woes, my money is still on him for the next Premier of Ontario. I think he will get a majority too.
Exactly, he worked hard and signed up new people.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1858  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 9:13 PM
GlassCity's Avatar
GlassCity GlassCity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Delta,Vancouver
Posts: 3,182
Not to mention that the Conservative leadership voting system is pretty much designed to appeal to as many voters as possible. Per riding and with a ranked ballot, you're pretty much guaranteed to get a nationwide consensus candidate for Conservatives. The winner might not appeal to a whole lot of left-leaning voters, but then that's not what the Conservative Party is trying to do.

As for the NDP member ousting Mulcair, they also voted him in. The current crop of candidates seem to be firmly left-of-centre, but they're also the only ones that have decided to run.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1859  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 10:27 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 11,985
Reports this afternoon suggest that Bernier has taken the leadership contest to Crazytown with a suggestion that he'd consider using the military to "close the border" to illegal immigrants. One has trouble even knowing where to begin in explaining why, apart from being completely ineffective, that's a really, really, really bad idea.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1860  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 10:30 PM
Xelebes's Avatar
Xelebes Xelebes is offline
Sawmill Billowtoker
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rockin' in Edmonton
Posts: 12,309
Meanwhile, Michael Chong finds himself in a crazy flap. Nothing he did, but still. . . very odd.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/gl...t-it-felt-like
__________________
The Colour Green
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:29 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.