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  #181  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2017, 6:45 AM
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Am I the only one who finds the old NDP mantra that the Liberals "campaign from the left and govern from the right" a bit hypocritical, given that (yes of course they've never governed federally) that almost every NDP government I can think of on the provincial levels have been rather centrist? People forget that Bob Rae was such a disaster in Ontario not because he actually governed like a New Democrat, but because he did the opposite of what he campaigned for on so many things (particularly labour relations and social program spending). The most recent Saskatchewan and Manitoba tenures of NDP government were classic centrist Third Way, fiscally centre-right and socially centre-left ideology. I'm less familiar with their track record in BC during the 90s, can somebody fill me in on that (other than just saying "it was a disaster/it was great")?
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  #182  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2017, 6:46 AM
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as someone with roots in northern mb i feel that leaning to ashton i missed the debate due to working but was fallowing blips her dad was posting on facebook. have to look at w was said to decide after that
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  #183  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2017, 6:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stardust* View Post
Maybe the 10-15% of the electorate that are pure socialist should start a new party of their own. (Perhaps a Canadian Labour Party?)

The New Democrats should keep aiming for the direction that Jack Layton started.
How would you really distinguish between that 10-15% of the electorate that you say are "pure socialist", and the 5-15% of the electorate that also vote NDP but are more about the "direction that Jack Layton started", and the Trudeau Liberals?
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  #184  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2017, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan View Post
How would you really distinguish between that 10-15% of the electorate that you say are "pure socialist", and the 5-15% of the electorate that also vote NDP but are more about the "direction that Jack Layton started", and the Trudeau Liberals?
I guess maybe listening to the members and delegates. Since I made that comment, I've changed my tune slightly. I think the more the NDP tries to fight for the centre the more they will be attacked by the Liberals. Unless the party moves left, they will always be outdone by the Liberals.

It was a decent debate yesterday. I'm hoping Sid Ryan and Jagmeet Singh join the race to make things more interesting.
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  #185  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 3:07 AM
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I really don't know if trying to tack one way or another is as critically important as just having a leader that people can trust, having a coherent set of policies (the NDP platform in 2015 was anything but coherent) and talking about issues that people care about. The NDP shouldn't settle for third place, they should try to win every election. Otherwise, what's the point?
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  #186  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2017, 9:01 PM
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Looks like Jagmeet Singh is in (since Andrea Horwath isn't likely going anywhere!):

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...eadership-race
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  #187  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2017, 9:13 PM
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Just finished watching both debates in the past few days, and damn are they boring. I thought the Conservative ones were bad, but these are just so much worse. Why do they only ask questions that everyone will have the same answers to? The format is just brutal. Eliminates more or less all differentiation between the candidates.

Never thought I would say it, but the US primary debate format is so much better. It may be sensationalist, but I thought they did a good job of highlighting all the candidates' different policies. By asking different questions to different individuals, you could learn more about each of their ideas. The current NDP set-up is really just a waste of time at the moment. Let's hear some details on Caron's UBI proposal, let's hear why others are against it, let's hear about Julien's university proposal, let's hear if Ashton has anything to offer other than saying 'feminist' and 'neoliberal' as often as possible.
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  #188  
Old Posted May 28, 2017, 6:04 PM
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Somebody started a thread with the same name yet this one has existed for awhile.
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  #189  
Old Posted May 28, 2017, 9:30 PM
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Does the Conservative leadership result change the dynamic here?
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  #190  
Old Posted May 28, 2017, 9:52 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Does the Conservative leadership result change the dynamic here?
If you listened to Niki Ashton this afternoon, it gives the NDP a Trump-like, extreme social conservative to target. In my mind, I see the Prime Minister sending her a hand written thank you note!
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  #191  
Old Posted May 28, 2017, 11:13 PM
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So far I'm leaning towards Singh or Ashton. Although, moSt of the candidates are impressive in their own ways. The only one I couldn't see myself supporting is Peter Julian. As an Albertan I can't support his no pipeline position.
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  #192  
Old Posted May 28, 2017, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Does the Conservative leadership result change the dynamic here?
Not really. The real "stars" stayed out of this race and it basically came down to a so-con vs. a libertarian. I don't think either Scheer or Bernier would have cut much into the "NDP universe."
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  #193  
Old Posted May 29, 2017, 5:40 AM
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Originally Posted by *Stardust* View Post
So far I'm leaning towards Singh or Ashton. Although, moSt of the candidates are impressive in their own ways. The only one I couldn't see myself supporting is Peter Julian. As an Albertan I can't support his no pipeline position.
Charlie Angus is my MP but I don't really see him winning. His major weakness is his French. But I think he will get a decent amount of support.

I'm thinking that Niki Ashton will win. She seems to have a lot that might spark more interest in the NDP. She younger than the two other federal party leaders, female, represents a rural electoral district in Manitoba, has big-time Indigenous support, speaks French very well and also can speak Greek and Spanish. She pretty far left yet doesn't live in a major city. (Lives in Thompson, MB, population about 14,000) And she is fairly supportive of resource based industries as her riding's main industry is mining.

As for Singh, I would be surprised if he won. I honestly think he has a chance and could come close to winning but he hasn't been in politics for very long. My guess is that is could be setting himself up to be the next Ontario NDP leader. I wish he would have stayed in provincial politics.
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  #194  
Old Posted May 29, 2017, 12:59 PM
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I thought Stogran was very effective in calling out Singh for his "act of love" comment (in reference to what is required to connect to rural and small town communities. I don't know much about any of the candidates, but it seemed to me to highlight the concern that "there's no 'there' there" wrt Singh.
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  #195  
Old Posted May 29, 2017, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
Charlie Angus is my MP but I don't really see him winning. His major weakness is his French. But I think he will get a decent amount of support.

I'm thinking that Niki Ashton will win. She seems to have a lot that might spark more interest in the NDP. She younger than the two other federal party leaders, female, represents a rural electoral district in Manitoba, has big-time Indigenous support, speaks French very well and also can speak Greek and Spanish. She pretty far left yet doesn't live in a major city. (Lives in Thompson, MB, population about 14,000) And she is fairly supportive of resource based industries as her riding's main industry is mining.

As for Singh, I would be surprised if he won. I honestly think he has a chance and could come close to winning but he hasn't been in politics for very long. My guess is that is could be setting himself up to be the next Ontario NDP leader. I wish he would have stayed in provincial politics.
I totally agree with you regarding Ashton. She seems to have the credentials, experience, and she's a great speaker and debater.

Hopefully we will see more substance from these candidates. This debate was a little better and I learned more about where they stand and their ideas (Caron's public infrastructure bank idea is pretty good) but after 3 debates I feel like I should know more.
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  #196  
Old Posted May 29, 2017, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stardust* View Post
So far I'm leaning towards Singh or Ashton. Although, moSt of the candidates are impressive in their own ways. The only one I couldn't see myself supporting is Peter Julian. As an Albertan I can't support his no pipeline position.
Niki Ashton is against the Kinder Morgan pipeline as well:

Quote:
Ms. Ashton, who just announced her candidacy for the leadership on Tuesday, said she is against pipeline projects that the Liberal government has approved, including the Kinder Morgan project.
The article is from March before Singh joined, but three of the four at the time were opposed to Kinder Morgan.
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  #197  
Old Posted May 29, 2017, 6:38 PM
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I thought the Sudbury was dreadful, not because of the candidates, but because of the format. The questions were designed to get a sort banal agreement - will you stand up to Trump? (yes), what do you think of the new Conservative leader? (he's bad), do you support a strong relationship with unions? (of course).

The whole point is to allow people to decipher differences in terms of policies and vision.

And the no applause until the end rule is just stupid, gave it a really flat, monotone feel. Made it impossible to gauge audience reaction and generate some excitement.
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  #198  
Old Posted May 31, 2017, 7:19 PM
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So how can the candidates be grouped? I know in the CPC leadership it was a battle between social conservatives, Red Tories, libertarians, nationalists and compromise candidates. On the left, I would group them as follows (but do they have a candidate?):

* Compromise candidates. Basically acting as a bridge among factions. Think Jack Layton here.

* "Third Way" moderates. I don't think this will get much traction this time but they try to go into Liberal or even Conservative territory and risk angering the base (much like the Red Tories). Think Thomas Mulcair or Gary Doer here.

* Labour-populists. Focused on blue collar, industrial issues and anger among working people and anti-elitist sentiment. The closest thing to one would be the late Peter Kormos in Canada, but Bernie Sanders would fit this role too.

* Pure socialists. The left wing of the party, focusing on things like the Leap Manifesto. This would best describe someone like Svend Robinson or Sid Ryan.

* "Champagne socialists". These are mostly urban or environmentalist voters who have focus on them at all costs including social activism, yet aren't necessarily radical anti-capitalists. This group overlaps with the Greens and Liberals.

How would the candidates fit?
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  #199  
Old Posted May 31, 2017, 7:30 PM
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How is the "Leap Manifesto" figuring in the leadership contest and who are the Lewis's backing?
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  #200  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2017, 10:01 PM
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July 11, 2017
Jagmeet Singh’s Quebec problem

In a province where suspicion of religion in politics is a progressive impulse, the NDP leadership hopeful is facing an uphill battle

Paul Wells

The second most-popular story on Le Devoir‘s website as I write this is about mounting anxiety in the Quebec wing of the NDP over Jagmeet Singh’s candidacy for the party’s leadership. “Several activists are panicking” at the thought, the story says.

The problem? Singh, a practicing Sikh, wears a turban and kirpan. “To have a leader who’d wear ostentatious signs” of his religious affiliation, “we are not ready,” Pierre Dionne Labelle, who was an NDP MP from 2011 to 2015, says on the record. “Would I be at ease with that? I don’t think so.”

[...]

But it’s less interesting to debate these points than to note that the anxiety Le Devoir chronicles exists, that it’s a challenge to the Singh candidacy, and to try to understand why these concerns are being expressed most loudly by the NDP’s Quebec wing.

Luckily we have a recent poll to guide us.

On June 26 the Angus Reid Institute published the results of surveys in the United States and Canada on attitudes towards diversity in political leadership.

[...]



Support for a Sikh-led party is only 46 per cent in Quebec, the lowest regional score in the country by eight points. On the generic “…man who wears a religious head-covering,” support is lowest in Quebec by 12 points. Support is also lowest in Quebec for parties led by Muslims, by Jews, and indeed by evangelical Christians.

This would probably be a good time for this Maclean’s writer to say the Angus Reid data don’t show a generalized inability among Quebec respondents to show “openness” to “difference.” No, the results are way more interesting than that. In fact, Quebec respondents were markedly more likely than respondents in the rest of Canada to support parties led by a gay man, a lesbian or an atheist. And there was no marked difference between Quebecers and other respondents when the hypothetical party leader was transgender, Indigenous, black or a woman.

In no other part of the country do the results line up as they do in Quebec: markedly less likely to support parties whose leaders wear some visible sign of their religious affiliation, markedly more likely to do so if their difference is expressed in some other way besides religion.

There’s an obvious explanation for this, but it rarely gets mentioned whenever the debate over so-called “reasonable accommodations” rears its head in Quebec or outside. It’s that Quebec has a markedly different cultural history with organized and visible religion than much of the rest of Canada.

Many older Quebecers, those whose memories stretch back before the mid-1960s at least, have personal memories of a time when the Roman Catholic church had a strong influence over public affairs. Even most younger Quebecers will have been taught, in great detail, about the period before the Quiet Revolution. And the Catholic church was pretty big on ostentatious displays of religious affiliation.

[...]

The Quiet Revolution in Quebec was specifically a rebellion against religious influence. Progressive politics in many other parts of the country has been a politics of generalized tolerance; in Quebec progressive politics was often a politics of specific resistance. I lived in Quebec for five years and have written about its politics in instalments for nearly a quarter-century since, and I find this is one element of the debate over religion and politics that’s hardest for many non-Quebecers to grasp: suspicion of religion in politics is often a progressive impulse in Quebec politics. (Emphasis on “often,” as in, “of course not always, in Quebec or anywhere else.”)

That ex-NDP MP, Pierre Dionne Labelle, who’s quoted in the Le Devoir story? He was an anti-poverty activist before entering electoral politics. One of his few spotlight moments in the last Parliament was the day he stood in the Commons to complain that MPs had found themselves applauding a conservative American Catholic cardinal who’d visited the House the day before.

The Angus Reid results suggest that if one of the NDP leadership candidates were a lesbian atheist, she’d likely receive a better response in Quebec than in any other region (as long as she spoke good French, another deal-breaker according to Angus Reid). But if she wore a headscarf representing any religious affiliation (including, I suspect, that of a practicing Catholic; I do wish the survey had tested that hunch) she’d be out of the running.

This paradox hurts the NDP more than any party, because the NDP is uniquely whipsawed by its contradictions. Outside Quebec it is, or wants to believe it is, or can be at its best moments, the party of a generalized laissez-faire openness to religious, ethnic and sexual diversity. The kind of party that could proudly run Monia Mazigh as a candidate. Inside Quebec it’s a party that would regard a nice guy in a turban as a uniquely alarming prospect, with clear echoes of Quebec’s past. It’s not clear how to reconcile these two progressive traditions. It’s to Singh’s credit that he’s sought to confront the challenge head-on, with a genuinely charming video ad that shows him explaining his affinities for francophone Quebec while he dons his turban. Early evidence suggests the ad won’t be enough.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/otta...uebec-problem/
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