HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 6:21 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
The Leap Manifesto will severely hurt NDP support in Northern Ontario and probably in Northern Quebec as well.

It is just so out of touch and would hurt the many NDP MPs who currently represent ridings with resource-based economies. It will also be seen as an attack on mining and forestry. Avi Lewis and Naomi Klein are wealthy and very urban-centric. I don't feel they are a good fit for being so involved with the NDP. They are the type of people who give the party a bad name among those who might consider supporting the party.
It would likely obliterate them in those areas. Probably to the benefit of the Liberals, but the Conservatives might be able to make inroads among the non-indigenous populations in those areas.

In southwestern Ontario, I think the Conservatives will benefit the most, since the Liberals are already seen as "urban elitists" in their minds and they are socially more in tune with them. Plus the Liberals finished 3rd in most SW ridings (i.e. beyond the GGH) both federally and provincially.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 7:44 PM
Rico Rommheim's Avatar
Rico Rommheim Rico Rommheim is offline
Look at me!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: City of Bagels
Posts: 11,773
This is a good time to be a Trudeau, or a Liberal. The NDP is on the verge of complete collapse - worse a civil war, and the Cons are still the same old plain fucking ignorant idiots, just this time with no sense of direction or purpose.

I'm not even a big fan of Trudeau, I didn't vote for him or his Party, but you got to hand it to the man: he played his cards well in the last election and is the recipient of some serious luck.
__________________
Alarm Force is listed on the TSX
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 7:50 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: See post below...
Posts: 23,665
I imagine the new NDP leader will have to be from Quebec given the party's current membership. I couldn't name any of them except Mulcair.

I'm more curious to see who the Conservatives choose. The St. John's ridings are traditionally blue and only went orange then red for the past few elections in a desperate attempt to oust Harper. I can't imagine the federal Liberals will hold them for long - we're not important enough to require federal leaders to make difficult decisions in our favour. Whether it's the MRSC or whatever else, the Liberals will surely soon be at the bottom of the polls in the city again.

If the NDP actually positions itself as especially environmentalist, to the detriment of the oil and gas industry, then the Conservatives can definitely make in-roads here if the Reform/Alliance shit is kept under covers and the leader is from east of Kenora.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 7:55 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
C'est quoi l'affaire?
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 26,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I imagine the new NDP leader will have to be from Quebec given the party's current membership. I couldn't name any of them except Mulcair.
.
Actually, only 16 of their 44 current MPs are from Quebec.

And I bet you that 80-90 of their card-carrying members are from outside Quebec.
__________________
This is not a joke.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 8:29 PM
Bcasey25raptor's Avatar
Bcasey25raptor Bcasey25raptor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vancouver-False Creek
Posts: 1,982
Completely irrelevant, the NDP signing of the leap manifesto will have doomed this party to political extinction.
__________________
~ Singles life in Vancouver 2017, 200sq ft micro condos, thanks mayor Moonbeam.
~ Just a girl trapped in an inner city micro studio
~ Just Watch me
- Pierre Elliot Trudeau
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 8:35 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I imagine the new NDP leader will have to be from Quebec given the party's current membership. I couldn't name any of them except Mulcair.

I'm more curious to see who the Conservatives choose. The St. John's ridings are traditionally blue and only went orange then red for the past few elections in a desperate attempt to oust Harper. I can't imagine the federal Liberals will hold them for long - we're not important enough to require federal leaders to make difficult decisions in our favour. Whether it's the MRSC or whatever else, the Liberals will surely soon be at the bottom of the polls in the city again.

If the NDP actually positions itself as especially environmentalist, to the detriment of the oil and gas industry, then the Conservatives can definitely make in-roads here if the Reform/Alliance shit is kept under covers and the leader is from east of Kenora.
Do they care too much about Atlantic Canada (the Conservatives) though? After all, their entire caucus is from the interior West, rural southern Ontario and parts of "pure laine" Quebec - and Red Toryism won't help them hang onto any of them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 8:40 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: See post below...
Posts: 23,665
Oh, sorry, Acajack. I assumed most were from Quebec.

eternallyme: We don't matter to any party, really. But the Conservatives are trying now: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...skin-1.3488760
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 8:59 PM
*Stardust* *Stardust* is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
Completely irrelevant, the NDP signing of the leap manifesto will have doomed this party to political extinction.
Damn. I just got my membership a few months ago too. As an Albertan I cannot support the Leap Manifesto.

How does this manifesto differ from the Green Party platform?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 9:10 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: KW/Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 936
The Green Party is by and large composed of fiscal conservatives or moderates for whom environmental issues are paramount. The NDP is traditionally a labour and social democrat party which apparently also now wants the votes of environmentalists.

I don't think Leap is going to destroy the NDP. They might lose some support in blue collar areas in the short term, but I think the important thing here is that they are on the right side of history. Most people know that we need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. When do they think we should do that? I know for some the answer will always be "later," but environmental issues are going to be a growth opportunity. Additionally, these are issues that neither the Conservatives nor the Liberals can credibly campaign on- both are beholden to business in ways that preclude anything more than lip service.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 9:13 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues View Post
The Green Party is by and large composed of fiscal conservatives or moderates for whom environmental issues are paramount. The NDP is traditionally a labour and social democrat party which apparently also now wants the votes of environmentalists.

I don't think Leap is going to destroy the NDP. They might lose some support in blue collar areas in the short term, but I think the important thing here is that they are on the right side of history. Most people know that we need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. When do they think we should do that? I know for some the answer will always be "later," but environmental issues are going to be a growth opportunity. Additionally, these are issues that neither the Conservatives nor the Liberals can credibly campaign on- both are beholden to business in ways that preclude anything more than lip service.
They'd need to hope they can dethrone the Liberals in the big downtown areas, since that is where their message will be most receptive. However, Trudeau essentially has a lock on most of the big cities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 9:17 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: See post below...
Posts: 23,665
Thank God. I really don't give a shit who leads federally as long as it's not the Conservatives. That's the only one who moves backwards to my wants. The others - Liberal, NDP, Green... just different priorities or strategies but largely at least in the direction I want.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 9:21 PM
JHikka's Avatar
JHikka JHikka is online now
Haru Urara
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 3,807
The NDP hasn't officiailly adopted Leap. They'll just discuss it in the leadup to their policy convention in 2018.

If adopted then yes, it would destroy the NDP in many parts of the country.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 9:27 PM
Blader Blader is online now
Calgary Martindale
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Saskatoon-Toronto-Calgary
Posts: 731
Interesting that Tommy Douglas quit his doctoral studies in Chicago because he wanted to do something concrete as opposed to the comfortably ensconced academics who lived in the cerebral world of ideas. Is this a repeat of championing those without vs those with?

Last edited by Blader; Apr 11, 2016 at 9:32 PM. Reason: Better
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 9:55 PM
big W big W is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: E-Town
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues View Post

I don't think Leap is going to destroy the NDP. They might lose some support in blue collar areas in the short term, but I think the important thing here is that they are on the right side of history. Most people know that we need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. When do they think we should do that? I know for some the answer will always be "later," but environmental issues are going to be a growth opportunity. Additionally, these are issues that neither the Conservatives nor the Liberals can credibly campaign on- both are beholden to business in ways that preclude anything more than lip service.
It wont destroy the party, but reality is in most of the country they would have no chance of getting anyone elected. If right of the bat you have no chance in most of BC (maybe a couple Vancouver ridings which may go to the Greens) no seats in AB, SK and MB. Ontario outside of a couple seats in urban Toronto is a write off and for Quebec except for a couple seats in Urban Montreal and pretty much the same for Atlantic Canada. What will you do then? Basically get written off in all but 15 seats for a generation?

Think of how Ontario feels about the Provincial NDP and they have been out of power since 1995. That's over 20 years and they still have not gotten rid of the stigma.

BC outside of the lower mainland and the views of the NDP which has not been in power since 2001.

AB and the Liberals went from Trudeau to Trudeau without electing someone outside of Edmonton.

Something like this if passed will kill them for over a generation for most Canadians. People have long memories and something like this will doom them in most of Canada for a long time. While it may be forward thinking it will doom them in the present and maybe the future as well since someone else will implement what is actually doable and get credit.
__________________
SHOFEAR- "The other goalie should have to turn in his man card. What a sorry display that was." - March 24, 2008
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 10:05 PM
Docere Docere is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,319
The talking point about "Toronto elites" vs. "the West" is ridiculous. Last time I checked the strongest opposition to pipelines is in BC not Toronto.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 10:19 PM
O-tacular's Avatar
O-tacular O-tacular is offline
Fake News
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 12,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Leap Manifesto: Alberta NDP 'had nothing to do with this nonsense'
'These downtown Toronto political dilettantes come to Alberta and track their garbage across our front lawn'
By Bill Stadel, with files from CBC's Edmonton AM, CBC News Posted: Apr 11, 2016 9:47 AM MT|
Last Updated: Apr 11, 2016 10:50 AM MT

Alberta NDP members are tending to their wounds after falling prey to Toronto "dilettantes" and their "garbage" Leap Manifesto at the party's national convention in Edmonton.

"I'm spitting angry," says Alberta labour leader Gil McGowan. "These downtown Toronto political dilettantes come to Alberta and track their garbage across our front lawn."

The manifesto, which advocates a swift end to the use of fossil fuels, including a moratorium on new infrastructure projects such as pipelines, was spearheaded by documentary filmmaker Avi Lewis and his wife, anti-capitalism activist and author Naomi Klein.

More:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nger-1.3529980

And so it begins.

The NDP is starting to split apart. There will likely be no party left in two years time when the leadership convention takes place......
Glad to see the AB NDP openly criticizing the LEAP Manifesto and the federal party for bringing it to Edmonton. There is no surer way to make a party un-electable than to adopt this manifesto. I think Mulcair and gang saw that they failed last election while trying to be more centrist (the balanced budget etc.) and so now they've just said "Screw It!" and swung the pendulum the entire opposite direction.
__________________
"Words... I know all the best words!" - Donald Trump


www.behance.net/OlivierGraham
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 10:29 PM
O-tacular's Avatar
O-tacular O-tacular is offline
Fake News
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 12,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docere View Post
The talking point about "Toronto elites" vs. "the West" is ridiculous. Last time I checked the strongest opposition to pipelines is in BC not Toronto.
By calling them dilettantes I think that McGowan was just pointing out the obvious fact that the federal politicians (mostly Eastern int his case) only pay attention to the veneer of their trendy cause, while not seeing or caring about the real effects it will have on both the AB NDP's chances of getting re-elected or the entire economy of Western and ultimately all of Canada.

Anyone who actually thinks practically should see that this will only empower right wing parties in AB to get re-elected with fear tactics which will ultimately lead to less environmental regulation. You've just shot yourself in the foot and undone what marginal progress has been made. Good job wingnuts.
__________________
"Words... I know all the best words!" - Donald Trump


www.behance.net/OlivierGraham
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 10:45 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: KW/Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by big W View Post
It wont destroy the party, but reality is in most of the country they would have no chance of getting anyone elected. If right of the bat you have no chance in most of BC (maybe a couple Vancouver ridings which may go to the Greens) no seats in AB, SK and MB. Ontario outside of a couple seats in urban Toronto is a write off and for Quebec except for a couple seats in Urban Montreal and pretty much the same for Atlantic Canada. What will you do then? Basically get written off in all but 15 seats for a generation?

Think of how Ontario feels about the Provincial NDP and they have been out of power since 1995. That's over 20 years and they still have not gotten rid of the stigma.

BC outside of the lower mainland and the views of the NDP which has not been in power since 2001.

AB and the Liberals went from Trudeau to Trudeau without electing someone outside of Edmonton.

Something like this if passed will kill them for over a generation for most Canadians. People have long memories and something like this will doom them in most of Canada for a long time. While it may be forward thinking it will doom them in the present and maybe the future as well since someone else will implement what is actually doable and get credit.
I don't think any of what's in Leap would disqualify the NDP from the urban centres, which is where growth is happening.

Maybe it reduces their chances outside of the Lower Mainland in BC, but five of the six new ridings just awarded to BC were in the Lower Mainland. I don't think it shuts them out of centres like Guelph and Ottawa- quite the contrary.

In Ontario, people remember an actual NDP government, and have extremely negative connotations of the NDP, who presiding over a serious recession. That's a visceral thing, and only time is likely to fix that for them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 11:07 PM
Docere Docere is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,319
Of the 44 ridings held by the NDP now, which are they "doomed" to lose because of Leap? Hard to think of any really.

It could be a challenge in terms of winning back old seats in resource areas, such as northern Ontario.

Last edited by Docere; Apr 11, 2016 at 11:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 11:33 PM
Boris2k7's Avatar
Boris2k7 Boris2k7 is offline
Majestic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 11,890
If the Federal NDP wants to go screw themselves, that's fine by me, I just wish they wouldn't tie a noose around the Alberta NDP's neck while they are at it.
__________________
"The only thing that gets me through our winters is the knowledge that they're the only thing keeping us free of giant ass spiders." -MonkeyRonin

Flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:42 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.