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  #41  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2016, 1:43 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
For the older condos we need a law like they have in some states that says the condo association can't block the installation of an EV charger if the owner pays for it. It can still be expensive, but at least it provides for the possibility.

EDIT - Plug-in BC will fund 75% of the cost of EV charger installation in multi-unit buildings to a maximum of $4,500. But I don't think the condo association is obligated to allow it.
My building installed 2 L2 chargers in the visitors parking area over a year ago, for use by residents with EVs. Initially it was free, but recently they have started charging (too much IMO). I'm not sure what the installation cost was, and why they started charging a fee. They get used regularly, but not abused IMO.
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  #42  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 11:53 AM
casper casper is online now
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Tesla is in active discussions to land a large supercharging station downtown Vancouver.

Their network of chargers is only going to grow and grow, especially with the success of the model 3.
Interesting, that is a change in strategy. I was at an event in Victoria about two years ago put on by Tesla. At the time they explained that they were using the supper charger stations between cities trying to build out a network that support long distance travel.

I have not been in one of these, at the time they said something about how they wanted the charging stations to be "social" a place where Tesla owners could meet and chat while charging.
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  #43  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 12:39 PM
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
Interesting, that is a change in strategy. I was at an event in Victoria about two years ago put on by Tesla. At the time they explained that they were using the supper charger stations between cities trying to build out a network that support long distance travel.
You still need at least some chargers in the city to support the people who have driven there from somewhere else and who therefore who don't have a "home" charger that they can use.
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  #44  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 3:53 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Interesting, that is a change in strategy. I was at an event in Victoria about two years ago put on by Tesla. At the time they explained that they were using the supper charger stations between cities trying to build out a network that support long distance travel.

I have not been in one of these, at the time they said something about how they wanted the charging stations to be "social" a place where Tesla owners could meet and chat while charging.
I don't think it's a change in strategy at all. They've already built the in-between chargers at key strategic locations. Note also that the land that in-between chargers is considerably less expensive than land in cities.

There's been a lot of spirited conversation here.

I'll tell you my experience. I thought EV cars were a 'neat' idea but wasn't sold on the idea until I test drove a BMW i3. If you haven't done so, I highly recommend test driving one of these cars. They are wicked fun to drive. The dealership let me take it overnight and it was a joy to drive. It's ugly, though. The regenerative braking takes a while to get used to, but I'm sure Prius drivers are used to the feeling.

I decided to put a $1000 down payment on a Tesla. Why? I don't know, just mostly for the sake of doing it. As for it being a 2-year interest-free loan to Tesla... better to Tesla than rotting in a 0.5% interest rate savings account. The deposit is 100% refundable, in any case. It's really not a big deal. I suspect the first few Teslas will be high demand and have the ability to be resold at higher than they were purchased, in any case.

As for charging infrastructure needing to be built I'm not worried about it. I think it really requires a thinking change. When talking to the guy at the BMW dealership, he had a loaner for a few months. For what he did, he almost NEVER had range anxiety and never really ran into problems. He didn't have an EV charger at home, but he used the one at work. Even though the i3 range is a paltry 160km in comparison to the Model 3.

I think this is where you are going to find progress before strata units install en masse. It's a perk to have electric car charging stations.

As long as you have access to home charging, range matters little for day-to-day stuff. We're so used to filling up a tank and going for a week or two before filling up a tank that we think cars need 500km range. With an EV, the idea of 'going out' somewhere to get energy for your car is strange. You never have to fill up. You just need to plug in at home. You don't NEED fuel stations. Yes, for longer trips you do, but 95% of the average person's driving will be charged from home... at night. ( While we don't have cheaper rates YET in BC at night, I don't doubt that they're coming now that we have smart meters ).

Also remember that batteries charge to 80% really quickly. That's how they work ( and it's also why they don't overcharge and explode ). Tesla's charging station use a Tesla connector, but Elon has gone on record open sourcing the idea. One of the problems right now is a standard on fast charging and connectors. As I understand it, you wouldn't be able to safely plug any EV car into a Tesla Supercharging station.

Long-term reliability for electric cars are VERY good. Aside from the battery, which will lose range over time ( and perhaps need to be replaced ) the other parts last a LONG time. Compare our electric trolley buses to the diesel ones. Even though Diesel engines are tough, the electric trolleys last twice as long.
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  #45  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
You still need at least some chargers in the city to support the people who have driven there from somewhere else and who therefore who don't have a "home" charger that they can use.
Tesla doesn't build superchargers for that, and they send out letters discouraging people from doing that. As is, you need a home charger.

I'd imagine if Tesla is looking for a land in Vancouver, it's probably for a new store/service centre. The supercharger station is likely just gravy.
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  #46  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 5:09 PM
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Interesting, that is a change in strategy. I was at an event in Victoria about two years ago put on by Tesla. At the time they explained that they were using the supper charger stations between cities trying to build out a network that support long distance travel.
From Tesla's own website: "We strategically place Superchargers along well-traveled highways and in congested city centers."

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Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon View Post
Tesla doesn't build superchargers for that, and they send out letters discouraging people from doing that. As is, you need a home charger.
They've always had an informal policy that it's fine if you genuinely need to use the local supercharger because you cannot charge at home (eg. condo, street parking, rental, etc.). Given the nature of Vancouver's real estate stock (tons of condo dwellers, folks without garages, etc.), it seems reasonable that they might use an urban supercharger as a way to generate sales from otherwise trepidatious locals.
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  #47  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 9:46 PM
jhausner jhausner is offline
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6-7 years? I'm not sure where you work, but if you talk to the average taxi driver, they will tell you how the Prius hybrids are the best cars they've ever had in terms of maintenance and longevity/reliability.
We don't have Prius Hybrids, but that's good to know. I'd trust Taxi drivers in that sense given they put more KM on their vehicles and a lot within city limits (non-highway).
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  #48  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 9:53 PM
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
Aren't new condos in BC required to have a certain number or percentage of parking spots either with EV chargers or with pre-installed wiring for them? Pre-wiring is a huge advantage and lowers the installation cost considerably.

EDIT - The City of Vancouver requires that 20% of condo parking stalls have receptacles fed by 240V/40A wiring for charging and the electrical room must have space for installing the equipment necessary to supply power to chargers at every parking stall.
That's good to see. Only CoV though, I'm not aware of any such requirements in other cities. At least Surrey doesn't seem to have them to my knowledge, could be wrong. If I am wrong then I'd like to know because our condos are less than 2 years old and nothing built for EV capabilities.

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For the older condos we need a law like they have in some states that says the condo association can't block the installation of an EV charger if the owner pays for it. It can still be expensive, but at least it provides for the possibility.

EDIT - Plug-in BC will fund 75% of the cost of EV charger installation in multi-unit buildings to a maximum of $4,500. But I don't think the condo association is obligated to allow it.
Yah I for us it isn't an issue of not allowing it. I have no issue and I doubt Strata would in having them installed IF the owner is paying for the amount. It is nearly impossible for a Strata though to OK other owners paying (aka Strata paying the bill) for 1 owner's EV connection.

Like I said the problem I've seen though is people say "I need an EV hookup" and if Strata says "Ok fine but you'll need to pay the $5000 (or whatever after rebate)" they say "No that is Strata's responsibility" and then it gets denied because it isn't justified for Strata to pay for 1 person's gains at the expense of the other owners.

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What kind of hybrids are those? Priuses have a pretty good reputation for reliability - Consumer Reports tested a 10-year-old Prius with 200,000 miles (over 300,000km) on it and found it performed basically identically to the original. My Prius C is only a few years old so far, but it's been rock solid.
Honda Hybrids. Not all just some and I'd say the ones in question are easily over the 300k mark.

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Car batteries, especially Li-Ion ones, are very dependent on how they're handled by the car. For best longevity the car shouldn't fully charge them or fully discharge them, and it should keep the batteries cool when they get hot and warm them when they get cold. I think there have been some reports of issues with Leaf batteries in hot climates because they just use air cooling, while batteries in cars like the Volt that have active thermal management seem to be building a pretty good reputation for longevity. There's a US Volt that's racked up 300,000 miles, over 100,000 of them on the batteries, that hasn't had any loss of all-electric range.

But all-electric vehicles haven't been around long enough yet for us to really see how they're going to hold up. The best reassurances are the manufacturer's warranties, which are typically 8 years or more.
Cool.
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  #49  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
You still need at least some chargers in the city to support the people who have driven there from somewhere else and who therefore who don't have a "home" charger that they can use.
Yah I'd agree with you there. When you look at the map you can drive from say Vancouver to Calgary and there are stations between. But nothing IN Calgary. So for the person from Vancouver... what do you do in Calgary? Run out of power? Or pull up to the local gas station and steal their electricity?

They definitely need stations in the major cities which are the destinations not just between.
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  #50  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon View Post
Tesla doesn't build superchargers for that, and they send out letters discouraging people from doing that. As is, you need a home charger.

I'd imagine if Tesla is looking for a land in Vancouver, it's probably for a new store/service centre. The supercharger station is likely just gravy.
Why wouldn't they? That seems a bit silly. It is like the gas company saying they are installing gas stations between Vancouver and Calgary, but there are no gas stations in Vancouver or Calgary. So effectively you can really just go between Hope and Canmore.

It is fine if Vancouver is your home but if you go to Calgary, Calgary isn't your home so what do you do then? Seems a bit short sighted to me.
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  #51  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:00 PM
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From Tesla's own website: "We strategically place Superchargers along well-traveled highways and in congested city centers."
Maybe the new Tesla store at 4th & Fir will include a supercharger station?
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  #52  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:30 PM
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Yah I'd agree with you there. When you look at the map you can drive from say Vancouver to Calgary and there are stations between. But nothing IN Calgary. So for the person from Vancouver... what do you do in Calgary? Run out of power? Or pull up to the local gas station and steal their electricity?

They definitely need stations in the major cities which are the destinations not just between.
Those are only the Superchargers that are between Vancouver and Calgary. If you [url=http://www.caa.ca/evstations/search for EV charging stations in Calgary[/url] you'll see that there are quite a few in the city. They're just not Superchargers, which are meant for extremely quick chargeups while you're on the road, not slower overnight or charges that last for a couple of hours while you're shopping.
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  #53  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:33 PM
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Why wouldn't they? That seems a bit silly. It is like the gas company saying they are installing gas stations between Vancouver and Calgary, but there are no gas stations in Vancouver or Calgary. So effectively you can really just go between Hope and Canmore.

It is fine if Vancouver is your home but if you go to Calgary, Calgary isn't your home so what do you do then? Seems a bit short sighted to me.
Because the point of the supercharger isn't to replace a personal charger. It is solely to allow en route charging to permit long drives. If you're in Calgary and you drove there with a Tesla, they're going to want you to use a charger at your hotel, or house or wherever you park. Tesla is setting up "destination chargers" which are just 220V chargers. 8-10hrs for a charge... There's some of these scattered about, and hotels and offices have lots of L2 chargers in their pay lots.

A supercharger isn't cheap to build, and they can be in short supply at times. If you added the use of every ding-dong who just wants so avoid paying for power at their house, then they would have to build an order of magnitude larger network.

A DC fast charger costs $30K+ and requires a huge grid connection. A 220V charger can be installed for under $500 if there was some thought that went into the building design. Consider, a current supercharger station with 6 stalls can use almost 500kW of power.

The premature aging of your battery is also a huge concern. If your battery is worth $10K, would you rather have it last 5 years or 15 years before having it noticeably get worse.

Also, check Plugshare.
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  #54  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2016, 10:34 PM
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Yah I'd agree with you there. When you look at the map you can drive from say Vancouver to Calgary and there are stations between. But nothing IN Calgary. So for the person from Vancouver... what do you do in Calgary? Run out of power? Or pull up to the local gas station and steal their electricity?
Well, the 2016 Supercharger map does show one planned for Calgary proper (and also Edmonton). There are several hotels that have destination chargers and a few businesses (eg. Ikea). There's also the Tesla store in Chinook Centre which has chargers (but not superchargers).
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  #55  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 8:05 AM
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Because the point of the supercharger isn't to replace a personal charger. It is solely to allow en route charging to permit long drives. If you're in Calgary and you drove there with a Tesla, they're going to want you to use a charger at your hotel, or house or wherever you park. Tesla is setting up "destination chargers" which are just 220V chargers...
The flaw in this line of thinking is that it's still hard to find hotels with chargers, even more so ones that will guarantee their availability. If you can't charge at your hotel overnight then you're surely not going to be happy about having to leave your car sitting at a Tesla station for 8-10 hours during the day when you could be using it around town.
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  #56  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 4:58 PM
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The flaw in this line of thinking is that it's still hard to find hotels with chargers, even more so ones that will guarantee their availability. If you can't charge at your hotel overnight then you're surely not going to be happy about having to leave your car sitting at a Tesla station for 8-10 hours during the day when you could be using it around town.
The point of the hotels having charging infrastructure is that it attracts people to the hotel. I'd say more than half the hotels in downtown have it now, if it's popular they'll expand it. It's easier than you'd imagine in Vancouver. Less so in fossil fuel obsessed Calgary.

Rolling out 30 stalls of EV parking shouldn't be more expensive than one DC Fast Charger. All they would need to provide is a 220V power plug, just like a dryer or trailer park provides.
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2016, 5:44 PM
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The point of the hotels having charging infrastructure is that it attracts people to the hotel. I'd say more than half the hotels in downtown have it now, if it's popular they'll expand it. It's easier than you'd imagine in Vancouver. Less so in fossil fuel obsessed Calgary.
I count nine hotels in Calgary on Plugshare. It's not that hard to find charging.
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  #58  
Old Posted May 11, 2016, 5:41 PM
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I count nine hotels in Calgary on Plugshare. It's not that hard to find charging.
I didn't claim it was. It's just in contrast to there being about 100 L2 sets in the City of Vancouver. There are probably about 300-400 actual charger spaces among them.
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  #59  
Old Posted May 11, 2016, 5:47 PM
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Maybe the new Tesla store at 4th & Fir will include a supercharger station?
I'm pretty sure their service centre on Powell has a number of their "high end" home chargers. Not supercharger level, but something above the normal L2 I believe.
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  #60  
Old Posted May 11, 2016, 7:11 PM
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I'm pretty sure their service centre on Powell has a number of their "high end" home chargers. Not supercharger level, but something above the normal L2 I believe.
Tesla makes 10kW or 20kW 220V Chargers. They're just high amperage L2 Chargers with Tesla's proprietary head on them instead of the SAE J1772 standard.
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