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  #41  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 2:49 AM
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The probability of Canada turning into a white nationalists paradise with oppression of "racial" minorities is probably as high as the probability of our 1.5 million Chinese minority Canadians getting brainwashed by an ISIS-style Chinese nationalist organization that causes them to engage in a violent insurrection involving bombings, mass killings and assassinations. Basically pretty slim. Canada has gone past that stage and only a highly regressive immigration policy could even begin to take us back to that backwards phase. Another reason why the white US population is also ideologically different when it comes to racial matters, outside the Midwest which has a very different racial experience and lower levels of socio economic racial stratification. Much of white America exists in a milieu where Asians (Chinese, Indian and Jewish) are significantly wealthier and better educated than whites on average while Mexicans and blacks are significantly less educated and prosperous. Such stratification causes real class differentiation and intolerance. Ive never seen the amount of interracial couples of every single conceivable ethnic combination that i have witnessed walking through a mall in Square One Mississauga on any given day, anywhere in the world, and i make it a point to visit malls in different cities i visit to see locals in their natural habitat. Much of this has to do with the similar socio economic status of the groups in this suburb (middle class).
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  #42  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 2:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Canadian Exceptionalism. Even our right-wing populists have accepted multiculturalism.

.
The idea that one's country possesses the characteristic exceptionalism is not particularly... exceptional.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 2:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
The probability of Canada turning into a white nationalists paradise with oppression of "racial" minorities is probably as high as the probability of our 1.5 million Chinese minority Canadians getting brainwashed by an ISIS-style Chinese nationalist organization that causes them to engage in a violent insurrection involving bombings, mass killings and assassinations. Basically pretty slim. Canada has gone past that stage and only a highly regressive immigration policy could even begin to take us back to that backwards phase. Another reason why the white US population is also ideologically different when it comes to racial matters, outside the Midwest which has a very different racial experience and lower levels of socio economic racial stratification. Much of white America exists in a milieu where Asians (Chinese, Indian and Jewish) are significantly wealthier and better educated than whites on average while Mexicans and blacks are significantly less educated and prosperous. Such stratification causes real class differentiation and intolerance. Ive never seen the amount of interracial couples of every single conceivable ethnic combination that i have witnessed walking through a mall in Square One Mississauga on any given day, anywhere in the world, and i make it a point to visit malls in different cities i visit to see locals in their natural habitat. Much of this has to do with the similar socio economic status of the groups in this suburb (middle class).
I do hope you're right.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 3:10 AM
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Canada is quite balkanized politically, and has been for decades. National parties have trouble cobbling together coherent support across the country, let alone those of the far-wrong xenophobic sort.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 5:00 AM
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I think we have had our share of nationalist movements in the past, they have been regional, fairly disruptive and simply have not generated the proposed outcome. I am thinking of the Quebec independence movement that has gained straight from time to time going back into the 70's. It has been very regional, been highly emotional, consumed a lot of peoples time and energy and ended with a vote where the movement had not had sufficient support.

With each passing decade we move more and more to a multi-cultural society there is less support for such movements. .

In the rest of the country there simply have not been the same sense of a local nationalistic movement.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 6:12 AM
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People of my generation definitely view multiculturalism as a defining aspect of what it means to be Canadian. We've probably embraced it more wholeheartedly than any other country out there, in theory at least. I was born in the 90s. We didn't live through constitutional debates, we were raised in Jean Chretien and Stephen Harper's Canada. Hell, we don't even really have much memory of separatism.

As long ago as twenty years ago, the Reform Party was largely stigmatized as a group of racists because they wanted to reduce the levels of immigration (even though they were a fairly inclusive party themselves, and ran candidates of all faiths and backgrounds) and the federal Tories fully embraced multiculturalism under Harper. What we learned in this last election is that even when a party gives nativist elements even the faintest bone, it backfires hard. Never say never, but a Trump-like figure really doesn't seem to have a constituency in this country. People aren't as angry. There's less race-based class differential. Political education is, dare I say, more widespread here (our voter turnout has actually been increasing in the past couple elections, and the 18-35 crowd here came out in record numbers last year...it was upwards around 60% for that cohort, which would put Obama '08 to shame) and hence I think people are more willing to scrutinize talking points they hear.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 6:39 AM
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Why has Canada not any right wing movement on the rise? Media control by a minority of "pseudo-intellectual" leftists. Radio-Canada which is a public media, and the most "listened to" in the country, should have a neutral view or opinion on events and it's everything but a fair and balanced view that we get from them. What we see there is a "private" use of a public service to serve a far leftist agenda. Most folks don't realize it but we don't have a real liberty of press in Canada. In France they have "LeFigaro" that can be consider right wing and "Liberation" at the other end on the left. These 2 newspapers help the french people to have a good understanding of events with 2 opposite views, that is something we don't see here in Canada and if we have a newspaper that lean to the right here as "Lejournaldemontreal" for example, the quality and intellectual level of articles is not up to what you would find in "LeFigaro" so they are easily debunkable by any so-called leftist intellectual. I can tell you right away what will be the major news on Radio-Canada for the years to come: man induced global warming, promotion of feminism and gay rights, anything that promotes minorities to fight racism.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 6:51 AM
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Originally Posted by vincefort View Post
Why has Canada not any right wing movement on the rise? Media control by a minority of "pseudo-intellectual" leftists. Radio-Canada which is a public media, and the most "listened to" in the country, should have a neutral view or opinion on events and it's everything but a fair and balanced view that we get from them. What we see there is a "private" use of a public service to serve a far leftist agenda. Most folks don't realize it but we don't have a real liberty of press in Canada. In France they have "LeFigaro" that can be consider right wing and "Liberation" at the other end on the left. These 2 newspapers help the french people to have a good understanding of events with 2 opposite views, that is something we don't see here in Canada and if we have a newspaper that lean to the right here as "Lejournaldemontreal" for example, the quality and intellectual level of articles is not up to what you would find in "LeFigaro" so they are easily debunkable by any so-called leftist intellectual. I can tell you right away what will be the major news on Radio-Canada for the years to come: man induced global warming, promotion of feminism and gay rights, anything that promotes minorities to fight racism.
So, you are faulting us for being a smart, responsible, non-backward, non-lunatic friendly, open democratic country, considered in the world as a desirable place to live, as opposed to what? Here you have proof in this post that there is still hope for a Trumpesque trite wing nativist movement after all. True democracy!

You have also heard of NPR, CNN, BBC and MSNBC right?
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 7:38 AM
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I'd easily blame anti Americanism. Canada sees itself as the anti america, the US is seen as a racist closed minded bigoted shit hole and Canadians REALLY don't want to be that.

Canada is a very culturally and politically Liberal country.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 7:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
I'd easily blame anti Americanism. Canada sees itself as the anti america, the US is seen as a racist closed minded bigoted shit hole and Canadians REALLY don't want to be that.

Canada is a very culturally and politically Liberal country.
Yet, on a polarized global political/social scale, the USA is still the largest population bloc among the most progressive societies in the world. Just imagine how reactionarily liberal we would be if we bordered on China.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
So, you are faulting us for being a smart, responsible, non-backward, non-lunatic friendly, open democratic country, considered in the world as a desirable place to live, as opposed to what? Here you have proof in this post that there is still hope for a Trumpesque trite wing nativist movement after all. True democracy!

You have also heard of NPR, CNN, BBC and MSNBC right?
I have no idea what Vincefort's political views are, but he might have a point even though it was expressed maladroitly.

I am pretty media-knowledgeable and consider Radio-Canada and CBC the best news outlets in the country. I consider them fairly unbiased, but that doesn't mean they can't have any bias at all. Being on the left myself, I am willing to admit that at least part of my appreciation of them is because they rarely do stuff that shocks my sensibilities. I wonder how I'd feel if Radio-Canada and CBC were on the flip-side of all of this, and more left-skeptical.

It is true that in Canada views that are considered unpleasant to hear are often verboten and swept under the carpet. Right wing conservative views more often than not.

Countries like the US and France do have more open debate it seems, even though it's sometimes very messy.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 11:37 AM
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I'd submit we've ventured quite far into "No True Scotsman" territory in this thread.

This is not to take anything away from Canada's achievements. As I am fond of saying, it is arguably the world's most successful diverse society at the moment. And the pool of challengers is rapidly shrinking.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 12:07 PM
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http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/0...e-his-tweets/#

Scary stuff. I know it can happen here, anything can happen anywhere, but I'm glad that, at least right now, we're quite far removed from it.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 12:42 PM
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http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/0...e-his-tweets/#

Scary stuff. I know it can happen here, anything can happen anywhere, but I'm glad that, at least right now, we're quite far removed from it.
Yikes. BTW I don't understand why so many Canadians are pointing the finger at Americans for the Trump effect, all comfortably self-satisfied.

I mean, I don't think he will win (although I didn't think he'd get this far either) but if he ever does, the land he controls will be less than 100 km from where I am sitting now, and about the same distance or less from Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, etc.

Though maybe you'll be signing Thank God We're An Island even more!
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 12:46 PM
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 12:50 PM
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Canada staked its identity on multiculturalism shortly after the British Empire (its previous identity) collapsed. That was a strong bet, as it turned out.

It is also a big, isolated, resource-rich nation with a lot of land per population. Historically speaking, multicultural societies need big surpluses if they are to avoid inter-group tensions and strife.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 12:57 PM
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For all the grief about Trump, though, please do keep in mind that Hillary is as committed a proponent of the regime-change doctrine as you can get. Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria – she's never seen a strategic location she didn't want to fuck around in. Also, Canada shares a border with Russia; this could become something one notices a little bit more eventually (what with Vicky Nuland doing all those things she loves doing).

Trump may be "Islamophobic", but Hillary's interventions have actually maimed and killed tens of thousands of Muslims.

There are days on which I can almost imagine I'd rather endure a few ignorant tweets than sit heat-dreaming of my mother in a Sabha sub-basement with half my leg blown off and gangrene riding in on green horses.

But then I remember how serious online harassment is.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 1:02 PM
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For all the grief about Trump, though, please do keep in mind that Hillary is as committed a proponent of the regime-change doctrine as you can get. Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria – she's never seen a strategic location she didn't want to fuck around in. Also, Canada shares a border with Russia; this could become something one notices a little bit more eventually (what with Vicky Nuland doing all those things she loves doing).

Trump may be "Islamophobic", but Hillary's interventions have actually maimed and killed tens of thousands of Muslims.

There are days on which I can almost imagine I'd rather endure a few ignorant tweets than sit heat-dreaming of my mother in a Sabha sub-basement with half my leg blown off and gangrene riding in on green horses.

But then I remember how serious online harassment is.
Goode pointe.

It's kind of like having to choose between the Hell's Angels (Trump) and the Cosa Nostra (Clinton).
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 1:09 PM
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We should also keep in mind that Trump has never held any political power, and so we don't know what he would do once in office. Unlike Clinton he is basically an unknown quantity.

He could be better, the same or significantly worse.

There is no guarantee that his actions would be below the level of bombast he has displayed, once he has his finger on an actual trigger.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2016, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincefort View Post
Why has Canada not any right wing movement on the rise? Media control by a minority of "pseudo-intellectual" leftists. Radio-Canada which is a public media, and the most "listened to" in the country, should have a neutral view or opinion on events and it's everything but a fair and balanced view that we get from them. What we see there is a "private" use of a public service to serve a far leftist agenda. Most folks don't realize it but we don't have a real liberty of press in Canada. In France they have "LeFigaro" that can be consider right wing and "Liberation" at the other end on the left. These 2 newspapers help the french people to have a good understanding of events with 2 opposite views, that is something we don't see here in Canada and if we have a newspaper that lean to the right here as "Lejournaldemontreal" for example, the quality and intellectual level of articles is not up to what you would find in "LeFigaro" so they are easily debunkable by any so-called leftist intellectual.

better pseudo-intellectual than anti-intellectual.

Quote:
I can tell you right away what will be the major news on Radio-Canada for the years to come: man induced global warming, promotion of feminism and gay rights, anything that promotes minorities to fight racism.
And so what? These are noble causes.
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