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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2017, 9:25 PM
christof christof is offline
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Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
isn't that even more motivation for temple to contribute? it seems as if a $20m investment would be at least intriguing from their side considering how much more attractive the area would be for potential undergrads/grad students/faculty and staff. my previous note re: drexel was just to point out how they are willing to spend multiple billions to create something similar (mixed use, innovation, transit connections, etc.) to what temple could help enable by contributing a very small fraction of that drexel number.

again, i have absolutely no insight into how funding shakes out for something like this, but from a practical standpoint, i can't see how both sides (developer team and temple) wouldn't at least be willing to have a conversation.

now i'm just waiting for someone to tell me exactly how and why i'm wrong B-)
Dude, Temple had a $20M deficit they had to fill because they gave out too much financial aid this fiscal year. The school president lost his job over it.

Now you want them to find another $20M to fund this project. Where do you see this money coming from?
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2017, 10:22 PM
eixample eixample is offline
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Originally Posted by jhdiesel View Post
As for this proposal, seems like this could be a good opportunity to make the Swampoodle Connection happen.
If SEPTA made the swapoodle connection (connecting chestnut hill west line to the Reading main line???), would they give up that one right of way curving through this property?

This project illustrates how important transit stops/transit oriented development can be for the growth of the city outside the core. Now imagine the development potential if we switched to a modern Parisian/German regional rail system where multiple trains arrive every hour. The infrastructure improvements required to modernize the regional rail system (all high level platforms mainly) would pay for itself in increased property values.
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2017, 10:36 PM
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Just my opinion,--------I don't think this passes the smell test for me. If I had $150M to invest in a ground up multi family project I can think of many other areas where the risk/reward factor would be much more favorable. Even if the land costs were near zero at this location all the other construction costs are going to be the same, or very close to the same. On the other side of the ledger is the rental income, will cheaper land allow the rents to be in line with what the area can afford. Doubtful.
Then there is the $9M said to be spent already, again that figure just seems so out of line with any reality I can see.
And 200K sq.ft. of office and lab space, maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see the market for that space at that location.
All in all, for me, this proposal doesn't make sense, the pieces just don't seem to come together.
But I'd be glad to be wrong.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan View Post
I have long been advocating for a Temple University-based innovation corridor along North Broad Street, but I have previously thought of it extending from Girard to Susquehanna. This project could be the catalyst of realizing an innovation corridor between Girard and Erie, which would connect our Main and Health Sciences campuses together.
I 100% think Temple should think about starting a tech/science incubator and innovation corridor similar to the Science Center. They should center it around the Amtrak station here. It would be a boon for the area, and give a shot in the arm to the area between Temple Main and Temple Health Sciences Campus.

The neighborhoods between Center City and Temple Main are improving on their own. Let them continue to build up organically. Focusing on developing an innovation corridor here would be a huge boon.

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Originally Posted by Nova08 View Post
What is the business environment in North Philly for 215,00 sq of business/labs/start-up space and "luxury apartments?"

Call me short sighted but I get a little cautious when we start to spread our start-up/research/lab type development so thin across various parts of the city. Get's me a little worried that developments like the Science Center will take longer to get all of the buildings off the ground.

I mean for all intents and purposes we should just call this Septa North Philadelphia station. You can probably count the number of Amtrak trains that stop at North Philly on two hands. It has no where near the importance that North Philadelphia station held with the Pennsylvania Railroad.
I get your cautiousness, but this could be very successful if done right. There is an Amtrak station, a SEPTA Regional Rail station, and a Broad Street subway line stop all converging on this property.

Temple should start thinking about creating a tech and science incubator and innovation corridor similar to the UCity Science Center and take up lab and office space in this development. Why doesn't Temple move their Podiatry school here from Center City as well, and sell the current site to a developer?

I think that could definitely take up a lot of the commercial space.
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
The neighborhoods between Center City and Temple Main are improving on their own. Let them continue to build up organically. Focusing on developing an innovation corridor here would be a huge boon.
I can definitely agree with that. The market can, and is, taking care of the area between CC and TU Main. Building up incubator space in the area around North Philadelphia Station (let's arbitrarily say between 13th, 16th, Allegheny, and Lehigh) could kickstart the revitalization between Main and Health Sciences, which I would say as being between Susquehanna-Dauphin and Erie on the BSL; the market is taking care of everything close to North Broad up to Susquehanna-Dauphin.

Regarding the Swampoodle Connection, I don't think it will considering that SEPTA made a capital investment in the CHW bridge over the ex-Reading main a few years ago. Constructing a new interlocking involves more than just tracks; in fact, the heavy work comes in the form of re-configuring signal systems. Also, although it may free up space on the NEC, adding another train that has to cross the entire SEPTA Main Line at 16th Street Interlocking (the Manayunk/Norristown Line already does) may complicate other systemwide train movements due to the line becoming double-tracked north of Wayne Junction.

Besides, people employed here, as well as new residents, may find this connectivity very useful.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 2:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CCGuy View Post
Why would the community be against fixing up a derelict factory and filling in an empty lot with retail and jobs? Parking? I live in Philly and can understand not wanting a football stadium built accross the street from me. But fixing an empty bulding and adding retail- I would welcome that.
There was enough NIMBY opposition to stop a grocery store from coming to Point Breeze. Some people fear and oppose all things that could be a sign of gentrification. It's not the same as a stadium, which has other concerns, but there will be at least some people fighting what most of us on this board would easily call progress or a good developement in a low income neighborhood.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
Just my opinion,--------I don't think this passes the smell test for me. If I had $150M to invest in a ground up multi family project I can think of many other areas where the risk/reward factor would be much more favorable. Even if the land costs were near zero at this location all the other construction costs are going to be the same, or very close to the same. On the other side of the ledger is the rental income, will cheaper land allow the rents to be in line with what the area can afford. Doubtful.
Then there is the $9M said to be spent already, again that figure just seems so out of line with any reality I can see.
And 200K sq.ft. of office and lab space, maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see the market for that space at that location.
All in all, for me, this proposal doesn't make sense, the pieces just don't seem to come together.
But I'd be glad to be wrong.
Temple is north and south of this location and there aren't many lots near temple available for major residential structures. There is very little housing close to the medical school and there are likely hundreds of students who would gladly live closer if there were suitable options. 5 years ago people would've said major developments in Kensington and Point Breeze didn't make any sense either.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 12:35 PM
1487 1487 is offline
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Originally Posted by Groundhog View Post
There was enough NIMBY opposition to stop a grocery store from coming to Point Breeze. Some people fear and oppose all things that could be a sign of gentrification. It's not the same as a stadium, which has other concerns, but there will be at least some people fighting what most of us on this board would easily call progress or a good developement in a low income neighborhood.
Hardly anyone lives near this site. Temple built a $100M building 6 blocks norht of here on a parking lot 5-6 years back.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 5:32 PM
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North Station District proposal to bring $162M development to North Philly

Read more here:
http://philly.curbed.com/2017/3/20/1...lan-racp-grant
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 10:05 PM
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Regarding this proposal and comments from the high rise thread:

1487, I love your enthusiasm and your data points.

McBane, you have some good points too. Some people in my neighborhood (NoLibs) work in Manhattan and take the train 3-4 times a week. Although they use 30th street station to get to work and wouldn't necessarily use this stop, they might use it if it were safer.

To me, the thing I find amazing about the proposal is how obvious it is. I wouldn't have thought of it on my own but now that I'm reading about it, I can't believe someone hasn't already thought of it. It seems like a no-brainer with an absolute TON of upside.

I hope this happens, and that the developers capitalize on the investment. They deserve it for being creative.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 6:09 AM
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From PhillyMag, http://www.phillymag.com/property/20...-north-philly/

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The Philadelphia Inquirer reported March 18th that an investment syndicate led by HFZ Capital Group plans to build two new mixed-use buildings and renovate a third on land it has acquired around North Philadelphia Amtrak station.

The three proposed buildings all lie to the north of the Northeast Corridor tracks. One, a six-story building containing 105 apartments, would be sited at the southeast corner of Broad Street and Indiana Avenue; a second, 21-story tower with 128 apartments and about 214,000 square feet of office space, would be located just south of the first, next to the tracks. Both buildings would also contain street-level retail space.

The third building is an existing vacant industrial building on a wedge-shaped parcel between 16th Street and the SEPTA Chestnut Hill West Line tracks. This structure would be rebuilt to provide 180,000 square feet of space for light manufacturing and start-up firms.

The initial phase would also include some improvements to the train station itself, in particular the restoration of a tunnel connecting it to the adjacent North Philadelphia subway station on the Broad Street Line.

The total cost of this first phase is $162 million, not counting about $7 million the group had spent on site surveys and preliminary studies or the $2.1 million it spent to buy the four-acre parking lot on which the new buildings will sit from Amtrak and SEPTA. The lot with the vacant building is under agreement of sale.

The investors have also applied for a $20 million grant from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania’s Redevelopment Assistance Capital Program to cover work on the non-residential parts of the project.

Work on the former industrial building and the apartment building would be finished by September 2019, and the apartment-office tower would open in October 2021.

The investment group plans additional phases of development following this one. Those phases include redeveloping a triangular plot of land bounded by 16th Street, Indiana Avenue and the ex-Reading SEPTA Ninth Street main line consisting of several dozen privately owned parcels, many vacant or abandoned, and redevelopment of the shopping center built by Posel Management in the late 1990s to the south of the tracks, not including the original North Philadelphia station building that is now part of the shopping center.

HFZ is headed by Ziel Feldman, a prominent New York real estate investor and developer. Two other New York firms are participating in the syndicate, and Amtrak itself owns a minority stake in the venture.
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 2:59 PM
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The future of Philadelphia's future is all about trains... and rightfully so. It would be foolish not to attempt something like this in this. This WILL be a center and needs to treated as one.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 3:47 PM
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The future of Philadelphia's future is all about trains... and rightfully so. It would be foolish not to attempt something like this in this. This WILL be a center and needs to treated as one.
And make this a Philly's hyperloop stop. That will be huge and a real shot in the arm to North Philly. I am a supporter of hyperloop and involved with one of the company's working on it. I believe it will happen. The question is when.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 5:08 AM
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And make this a Philly's hyperloop stop. That will be huge and a real shot in the arm to North Philly. I am a supporter of hyperloop and involved with one of the company's working on it. I believe it will happen. The question is when.
yes to the hyperloop! Any sincerity in thinking this particular stop would be conducive to that? My impression is that the Hyperloop systems need minimal turns....partly due to the extreme high speed etc. Any ETA on the first functional hyperloop test with passengers?
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 12:00 PM
christof christof is offline
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Originally Posted by SEFTA View Post
The future of Philadelphia's future is all about trains... and rightfully so. It would be foolish not to attempt something like this in this. This WILL be a center and needs to treated as one.
I completely disagree that the future of Philadelphia is all about trains.

The future for Philly and rest of the country in transportation rests with self driven cars. This technology is going to completely change how cities are built and where folks live.

Inga has an article today talking about how Uber has impacted mass transit. That is nothing, NOTHING!, compared to what self driven cars will do to it.

My guess, self driven cars are 1-2 car generations away (5-10 years). Add another five years for rapid adoption. hence, the transformational impact will hit during the 2030's.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 12:11 PM
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And make this a Philly's hyperloop stop. That will be huge and a real shot in the arm to North Philly. I am a supporter of hyperloop and involved with one of the company's working on it. I believe it will happen. The question is when.
I'm all for the hyperloop, but I'm not sure we're talking about remotely similar time frames when we discuss this hub's success (or even Schuylkill Yards/30th Street Station Master Plan). Here's hoping tho!
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 12:26 PM
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I completely disagree that the future of Philadelphia is all about trains.

The future for Philly and rest of the country in transportation rests with self driven cars.
I'm not saying that self driven cars won't impact things but without a dedicated ROW, they will get stuck in traffic just like every other mode of trans that relies moving on public streets and expressways....a problem trains don't have.

Even on the Amtrak Regional, I can get from 30th Street Station to Union Station in DC in about 2 hours. Self driving cars won't accomplish that just like manual driven cars don't.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 12:54 PM
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I'm not saying that self driven cars won't impact things but without a dedicated ROW, they will get stuck in traffic just like every other mode of trans that relies moving on public streets and expressways....a problem trains don't have.

Even on the Amtrak Regional, I can get from 30th Street Station to Union Station in DC in about 2 hours. Self driving cars won't accomplish that just like manual driven cars don't.
Agreed, until manually driven cars are abolished there will be no big difference. And considering how many Americans love driving it's hard to see that happening anytime soon. The 2030s? That guy is dreaming.

And then even in the distant future when every car is self driving and flying down the highway at 100mph, they still won't be near the speed of the fastest trains.

Super fast mass transit will always have its place. Trains are incredibly important to Philadelphia's future.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 4:02 PM
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yes to the hyperloop! Any sincerity in thinking this particular stop would be conducive to that? My impression is that the Hyperloop systems need minimal turns....partly due to the extreme high speed etc. Any ETA on the first functional hyperloop test with passengers?
I don't know the geography well enough but want to look into it. Seems more workable than the 30th Street area. One of the key companies working on it started building the first full size passenger pod.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/03/...enger-pod.html

Test tracks and test runs are well underway. ETA is hard. There are a lot of regulatory hoops to jump through and funding as well. The first full run between two cities likely would not be in the U.S.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 4:09 PM
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I'm all for the hyperloop, but I'm not sure we're talking about remotely similar time frames when we discuss this hub's success (or even Schuylkill Yards/30th Street Station Master Plan). Here's hoping tho!
Yes, this project can't realistically plan around a hyperloop. But longterm, it seems right for this area assuming feasible. I would also bet we will see an operational hyperloop before we see a realized 30th Street Station Master Plan...not Schuylkill Yards. That is underway, on a shorter timeframe, doesn't require massive increases in real estate values, buildout over railroad tracks, etc...
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