Scottsdale & Paradise Valley Development News

[Phxbyrd211]

I think "buy in" is very important for transit to work in metro phoenix. We need to be able to show that rail is a success before it can be greatly expanded as has been done in Denver and Houston. I disagree about usage on Scottsdale Rd. I think the ridership would be brisk from downtown tempe to downtown scottsdale during the week but would continue to be be so at night and during the weekends. This will be in contrast to other stretches that may be more heavy during peak rush hours but slows to a trickle at other times. That line will get enough use by casual recreation seekers to justify its perhaps more limited utilization by the residents of Scottsdale and East Phoenix on a day to day basis. The potential import of connecting lightrail at central and camelback and future mass transit east on Bell road in the next 20 years is huge for the whole system. There is certainly a debate worth having on whether mass transit project should focus on getting people out of their cars or servicing those who already lack a car. How do we know that when their fortunes rise they wont buy a car and quit using the lightrail?

*now that I look at a map closely it's not that bad to have the lightrail take drinkwater or goldwater to bypass oldtown because either route could still connect with a Camelback line and head up to the airpark and Frank Lloyd Wright. I wonder which would be best, either you miss the stadium and hospital or you miss the waterfront which will be big going forward. As a Phoenix resident I wouldn't mind the city kicking in say 15% for the portions that border Scottsdale Road.

[Don B.]

Originally Posted by andrewkfromaz

It's too bad light rail tends to be negatively redistributive.

Really? And what would be your source for this particular pearl of wisdom, oh wise one? Or do you just make shit up as you type along because it sounds witty and intelligent?

--don

[PHX NATIVE 929]

Originally Posted by andrewkfromaz

I hope Scottsdale's joining the light rail study won't prevent light rail from serving areas that will actually use it: west and south Phoenix. Those areas, while certainly not as attractive as even south Scottsdale, have much higher percentages of households without cars as well as bus riders, and therefore in a perfect world would be served by light rail sooner rather than later. Compare ridership on Scottsdale Rd. with ridership on Baseline Rd. as an example. (as an exercise, I should say, my days of looking up bus ridership numbers are over) "Those people" need and would use light rail far more than Scottsdale residents, no matter how "young," "urban," or "modern" we think Scottsdale residents are. It's too bad light rail tends to be negatively redistributive.

Who thinks Scottsdale residents are "young," "urban," or "modern" ?

[loftlovr]

Downtown Scottsdale is full of urban/ modern projects and young folk...

[andrewkfromaz]

Originally Posted by loftlovr

Downtown Scottsdale is full of urban/ modern projects and young folk...

Unfortunately, they all drive everywhere. Even downtown Scottsdale residents have their love of cars in common with LA residents. Also, downtown Scottsdale is governed by a bunch of old folk who tend away from urban/modern anything. I think if people (a LOT of people) would actually use light rail in Scottsdale and if it were practical, THEN talk about building it.

Don, I'm not sure what merits the tone. Far greater minds than mine have shown that light rail (which doesn't pay for itself, as everyone knows) avoids bad areas of town (which tend to have higher bus ridership), instead connecting suburbs with urban cores, and/or following certain corridors that have high potential for urban development. The astronomical cost of building and operating light rail deflects transit money from those who need it and rely on it to those privileged who may choose between several modes of commute. I'll look up the guy who really drove this point home for me tomorrow.

[jvbahn]

No form of transportation "pays for itself." No transportation system ever devised is some sort of profit-generating vehicle, nor is it meant to be. It is merely a means of transportation and the ability to distribute work more efficiently.

I love how the anti-rail, pro-auto movement has somehow through slight-of-hand methods convinced everyone that freeways and airlines are somehow profitable businesses or infrastructure. Airlines would not exist without massive subsidies from the government on various levels(direct subsidies, bailouts, cheap fuel, airports, ect.) just as roadways are built and maintained with billions of dollars of public money, and are used by cars, which are major investments on the part of the individual for the car itself, fuel, repair. Lastly also ignored is the cost of the infrastructure required to generate and protect the fuel supplies in order to drive or fly around. These systems both consume well over a trillion dollars in added up costs every year to operate.

I'm quite tired of light rail being posed as some sort of massive public expense with no benefits, when the real costs of the auto and air-based travel systems are hidden and are somehow projected as free, no-cost/all-benefit methods of transportation. Air and road travel are respectively the most expensive methods of transport when all costs are considered. A multi-tiered flexible transportation network with many diverse layers should be and is offered by all major cities with any hope of a future in a globalized economy to move people and goods. If done right on well-developed networks(which barely exist in the US other than the Northeast), rail is the cheapest form of transportation of people and goods on land. Only travelling by boat is more efficient.

[combusean]

To my knowledge, the Route 72 line (Rural/Scottsdale) is right up there with the Green Line and Red Line as the most used bus routes in the entire system. It is very difficult to get detailed ridership statistics per route (Tempe does a better job of keeping tabs on the statistics), and I think most of the ambiguity in which line is the most popular is from before Route 72 was converted to "supergrid" service.

I also don't think that rail on Scottsdale Rd precludes its placement on lines that might (better?) serve other residents. A westerly line from downtown will probably end up on the freeway at 19th Avenue and that's on the drawing boards today. The route has been identified and a funding source for capital construction has been identified through Prop 400 funds from '04. I'm almost certain that the funds to operate the lines are shared by the cities it runs through, so it's not like Phoenix could be shorted of, eg, a line down South Central if Scottsdale built their own. Phoenix, like Scottsdale, would have to identify a funding source for both its construction and operation.



I'm certain something akin to the map above will get built, it just takes time.

[andrewkfromaz]

Originally Posted by combusean

To my knowledge, the Route 72 line (Rural/Scottsdale) is right up there with the Green Line and Red Line as the most used bus routes in the entire system. It is very difficult to get detailed ridership statistics per route (Tempe does a better job of keeping tabs on the statistics), and I think most of the ambiguity in which line is the most popular is from before Route 72 was converted to "supergrid" service.

I also don't think that rail on Scottsdale Rd precludes its placement on lines that might (better?) serve other residents. A westerly line from downtown will probably end up on the freeway at 19th Avenue and that's on the drawing boards today. The route has been identified and a funding source for capital construction has been identified through Prop 400 funds from '04. I'm almost certain that the funds to operate the lines are shared by the cities it runs through, so it's not like Phoenix could be shorted of, eg, a line down South Central if Scottsdale built their own. Phoenix, like Scottsdale, would have to identify a funding source for both its construction and operation.

I've ridden Rt. 72, and it's pretty empty. Also, none of the people I saw on the bus were Scottsdale residents, to the best of my knowledge.

Scottsdale, if it decided to build light rail (which I doubt), will be competing with Phoenix for Federal funds as well as other funding sources. That's why I hope Scottsdale won't waste the study committee's time and resources looking at Scottsdale corridors that, in addition to being inefficient and less-than-crucial (bluntly, a waste), lack the political capital to be approved.

[combusean]

^ Good point about the Federal funds issue. However, given the huge amount of time required to build out the transit network, there should be plenty of room for MAG to line the federal monies up for construction. Where the local money comes from seems more technical than anything on the scale of who gets the line and who doesn't. Phoenix for example may not wait for studies to be complete on the Northwest Extension and instead spend the $300 million to do it alone so they meet their self-imposed deadline.

[Camwoz]

TRIYAR ADDS TO OLD TOWN SCOTTSDALE HOLDINGS . . . BUYS RAMADA HOTEL FOR $8 MILLION


Scottsdale – A venture formed by TriYar Capital in Phoenix (Steven Yari, Shawn Yari, Bob Agahi, principals) and investors Fred Manocherian and Greg Manocherian of New York City paid $8 million to purchase the 92-room Ramada Scottsdale on Fifth Avenue hotel at 6935 E. 5th Avenue in downtown Scottsdale. The seller was a company formed by investor Ralph Burni of San Diego. The sale was brokered through Jerry Foster of Insight Land & Investments in Phoenix. The 79,000-square-foot hotel sits on a 2.36-acre parcel. Agahi says the venture intends to continue operating the hotel for the time being, but that the property will eventually be razed and redeveloped as part of a mixed-use parcel involving at least two other sites. With the purchase, the TriYar Capital venture now owns more than five acres north of Indian School Road and west of Goldwater Boulevard. In August 2006, BREW reported TriYar Capital and the Manocherians paying just under $5.69 million to buy a roughly 3,500-square-foot restaurant building just south of the Ramada hotel at 6940 E. Indian School Road in Scottsdale. The nearly 1-acre parcel and building is leased to Village Inn restaurant. The Village Inn is just west of a 35,054-square-foot office project the TriYar venture owns at the northwest corner of Indian School Road and Goldwater Boulevard. In March 2006, BREW reported the TriYar/ Manocherian venture paying $11 million to buy the three-building project. The complex, called Fountain Square, sits on a 1.98-acre site. The complex is at 4110, 4120 and 4130 N. Goldwater Boulevard. All three properties are eventually going to be combined and redeveloped as a mixed-use retail, residential and hotel project. TriYar has been an active investor and developer in the Valley, especially in the area of Old Town Scottsdale. Get more from the Yaris and Agahi at (602) 748-8888. Foster is at (602) 385-1515.

[Camwoz]

W HOTEL TO BE CENTERPIECE OF RETAIL-ENTERTAINMENT-HOSPITALITY-RESIDENTIAL PROJECT


Scottsdale – The developer of the W Scottsdale hotel is planning a retail, residential, entertainment and hospitality district in old town Scottsdale that is expected to cost $500+ million when completed. The 1.1 million-square-foot mixed-use project will be built on a 10+ acre site located just east of Scottsdale Road and south of Camelback Road. A company formed by TriYar Capital in Phoenix (Steven Yari, Shawn Yari, Bob Agahi, principals), also the developer of the W Scottsdale, assembled the property for the proposed project over the past two years. The 224-room W Scottsdale, scheduled to open next spring, will be the centerpiece of the upscale development. Future phases include a 140-room boutique hotel, office space, retail shops, restaurants, nightclubs, lounges, residential lofts and an entertainment component with a bowling alley and comedy club. Shawn Yari says the project will be the ultimate live, work and play development. The multi-building complex will feature retail plazas with water features and trendy patio-style restaurants and speciality shops. The boutique hotel is expected to have a rooftop pool and cabana. Plans include 160 upscale residential condominiums and office condominiums. A bowling alley called Split Lanes that will be partly owned by former Phoenix Suns basketball player Dan Majerle is part of an entertainment component that is expected to include a comedy club. “We are trying to redefine entertainment,” says Shawn Yari. RSP Architects in Tempe is designing the project, which has yet to be named. Phase one construction of about 500,000 sq. ft. of buildings should start late 2008. The development is scheduled to open mid-2010. The initial phase is likely to include the boutique hotel, 200,000 sq. ft. of office space, 70 loft-style condominiums and more than 130,000 sq. ft. of retail and entertainment space. Phase two plans call for another 400,000 sq. ft. of office, retail, restaurants, bars and lounges and 90 upscale residential condominiums. The popular nightclubs Myst, Suede and Axis/Radius (all partly owned by the TriYar principals) are now located in the second phase of the site and will eventually be relocated into newly-constructed buildings. Development cost (land and buildings for both phases) estimated at $400 million. Construction financing yet to be arranged. The 10-acre site being developed by TriYar is generally bounded on the north by Camelback Road, on the south by 6th Avenue, on the east by both sides of Saddlebag Trail and on the west by Brown Avenue. TriYar is spending $110 million to develop the W Scottsdale. That seven-story project also includes 18 luxury condominiums. Those penthouse units, which should average about 1,700 sq. ft., are expected to be priced from about $1.6 million to $3.5 million. Sales are scheduled to start in December. TriYar has been an active player in the Phoenix real estate market (see related story below). The company is interested in additional investment and development opportunities in the Valley. Get more from the Yaris and Agahi at (602) 748-8888.

[loftlovr]

Looks like Hanover will now be 240 luxury apartments...
Smart move.

6935 E 5th Avenue
rezoning from C-2 DP to D/PBD-2
240 apartments, 25,000+ sq ft of class "A" retail space

[Don B.]

Interesting article in today's Arizona Republic:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar...achet0102.html

Urban lifestyle big draw for luxury-condo buyers

Christia Gibbons
Special to The Republic
Jan. 2, 2008 12:00 AM

What's the economic value of bars, restaurants and nightlife? Consider the case of downtown Scottsdale, where two luxury condominiums just sold for $2 million each in one of the worst real-estate markets in years.

Since 2002, about 1,200 of the more than 1,500 condo units that have been built in the area have sold, according to Keith Mishkin of Cambridge Properties. By contrast, downtown Phoenix has seen 587 units come on line since 2000, and 495 have sold, he pointed out.

"Scottsdale and Tempe at the moment are further along in creating a 24/7 lifestyle. They already had it and now it's about adding residential," Mishkin said, adding that Phoenix continues in more of a 12/5 environment.

Three main types of buyers moving into downtown Scottsdale - the busy young professional, the move-down buyer and the second-home buyer - are looking for a mature area with lots of shops, galleries and restaurants, said Bill Hammond, president and CEO of Scottsdale-based Signature Properties.

Prices range from about $500,000 to more than $4 million in downtown Scottsdale. The spread is $250,000 up to $4 million in Phoenix, Mishkin said.

"When people consider urban living," said David Roderique, Scottsdale economic vitality director, "they want a 24-hour experience, . . . lots of activities close by and not just big events."

He touts Scottsdale's small restaurants, nightclubs and stores as a bigger draw for downtown than big events like conventions and sporting events.

Mike Trailor built single-family homes for 30 years, but with his Safari Drive project on the northeast corner of Scottsdale and Camelback roads, the developer is entering the condo arena.

Trailor said his goal is "to be part of the answer" to sprawl and start developing urban-living projects. He chose to start in downtown Scottsdale because the amenities were already in place to draw buyers at price points to make such expensive projects feasible.

Even after the abnormal selling years of 2004 and 2005, Mishkin said today's market is still stronger then 2003.

"It's no longer 'Build it, they will come,' but it's 'Build the right product and they will definitely come,' " Mishkin said.

--don

[hi123]

How far along is safari drive?

[hi123]

What is u/c In the foreground of the photo (from jc on phoenix loftnetwork forum)?

[NorthScottsdale]

Originally Posted by hi123

What is u/c In the foreground of the photo (from jc on phoenix loftnetwork forum)?

that is the expansion to fashion square mall. it is going to be an anchor store which is barneys new york i believe. and 30 new spaces for stores. its supposed to be done in 2009

[shrek05]

An interesting thing happening in Old Town/downtown is that more nationally known retailers and popular eateries are opening streetscape stores (and not within Fashion Square.) I wonder how this will affect the area.

So far:

lululemon - popular Canadian athletic/yoga wear opened up on 5th avenue.
babette - famed San Francisco boutique opened on 5th avenue and Marshall
Pineda Covalin - Mexican designer known for silk scarves opened on Stetson Drive
American Apparel - will be opening on the north-east corner of Scottsdale and Camelback
Sprinkles Cupcakes - opening next to American Apparel on the north-east corner
Delux Burger - opening on the development next to the Renaissance center
Waterworks - luxury home fixture store transplanted from Biltmore to Craftsman Court
Saddle Ranch Chop House - popular Hollywood restaurant open now at Stetson and Scottsdale

with more eateries and shops opening (and with Southbridge open now, which has over 20 local boutiques), I can definitely see more pedestrians in the area.

[loftlovr]

Didn't know about American Apparel- how cool!
I think that is in same building as Sprinkles.
I know TriYar Office is going on top of Sprinkels.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by shrek05

Delux Burger - opening on the development next to the Renaissance center

It seems strange to me that they are opening one in Scottsdale when the original location is just down the road. I hope it works out for them, maybe they'll eventually expand and put one downtown in a place like CityScape.

[Vicelord John]

hoover dam thats like questioning a place that has a location both in the loop and river north. Yeah, they are close, but both are busy urban centers that people make a destination.