HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Proposals


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 12:40 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 1,318
Smile NEW YORK | 2 Penn Plaza | FT | FLOORS

The plot thickens....

Once thing is certain: This area will dwarf the HY.

https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/09/v...r-giant-tower/
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 12:51 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,135
From the redevelopment thread...I may have to merge the two.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I wonder if Cuomo's proposal will include a return of this proposal for 2 Penn...it would have lifted a max FAR cap on the site.




Can't say that I am shocked.




https://therealdeal.com/2018/04/09/v...r-giant-tower/

Vornado considers tearing down 2 Penn to make way for giant tower
Steve Roth says REIT has grand plan for Penn Plaza "Promised Land"



By Kathryn Brenzel
April 09, 2018


Quote:
In his annual letter to investors, Vornado Realty Trust CEO Steve Roth said the company is considering razing 2 Penn Plaza to make way for a new building that would double the current tower’s footprint.

Quote:
By demolishing the 1.6-million-square-foot tower, Vornado would potentially be able to transfer some of the 5 million square feet of air rights at Madison Square Garden, which the real estate investment trust co-owns with the Dolan family. Some of the air rights could be “sprinkled to adjacent sites,” Roth noted, but the intention seems to be to create massive new development.

“The old 2 Penn has a 60,000 square foot footprint, the new [one] would have a 120,000 square foot-plus footprint at the base, perfect for our creative class tenants,” Roth said. “There would be towers above and a significant retail component below sandwiched between the train station and the office base.”

Unlocking those air rights would require the redevelopment of Penn Station.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 12:53 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 1,318
NY clearly is the Greatest City in the World!
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 1:46 PM
yankeesfan1000 yankeesfan1000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: 10014
Posts: 1,612
More takeaways. Having only three to five new buildings potentially account for the 5MM sf of development rights that sit on top of MSG, would make those very large buildings.

"...Roth does seem, however, to envision a large-scale reboot of Penn Plaza, which he refers to in the letter as the “Promised Land.” He says the REIT’s “grand plan” is to construct three to five new buildings on the sites it owns in the district...

...According to Roth, tearing down 2 Penn Station would allow light to reach the eastern half of Penn Station and enable improvements to the station — also a stated goal of the governor. Roth envisions the improvement would be “self-financed” through payments in lieu of taxes..."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 2:25 PM
C. C. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,882
We need to see more of this - development above what is allowed by zoning in exchange for public benefit. The city and the state no longer have the funding available for the much needed infrastructure investments, so it's time to unlock the value of the land.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 2:39 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,135
I'm trying to wrap my head around how they intend to double the footprint. That would mean reclaiming the 7th Ave space, and possibly some of the space between MSG.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 3:01 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 1,318
They also mention letting light pass through the east end of Penn which suggests to me that 2 Penn would be rebuilt somewhere else. Maybe on the corner of 8th and 34th where the Duane Reade is.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 3:04 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
They also mention letting light pass through the east end of Penn which suggests to me that 2 Penn would be rebuilt somewhere else. Maybe on the corner of 8th and 34th where the Duane Reade is.
No, that site is too small, and they aren't going to take down 1 Penn.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 3:13 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 1,318
True. It is too small. Hopefully, they intend to raze MSG and build the tower over the 8th Ave side of the current station.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 4:54 PM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is online now
A.F.K.A. JayPro
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: South Huntington, Long Island, New York
Posts: 799
Two things I wouldn't mind seeing bite the dust:

1. 2 Penn...that squat embarrassment.

2. MSG. And take the Knics and rangers with them. Dolan, Sather and Gorton are Moe, Larry and Curly Joe.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 7:53 PM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is online now
A.F.K.A. JayPro
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: South Huntington, Long Island, New York
Posts: 799
I know these are ideas that've been thrown around in years past; but I hope the first two for sure don't get zombified.

In order:

1. Hot-ass mess.

2. Contextually dissonant, aesthetically vulgar, proportionally inappropriate and visually disconcerting, all on a monumental scale yet to be fully ascertained.

3. Could work; but lose the blue glass and the overdone skeletonized spandrel motif...IOW, the (not too) odd polygon idea with a snappy façade such as can be found in Melbourne or TO, provided ESB's presence is duly respected.

Last edited by Prezrezc; Apr 30, 2018 at 8:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 10:43 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prezrezc View Post
I know these are ideas that've been thrown around in years past; but I hope the first two for sure don't get zombified.

In order:

1. Hot-ass mess.

2. Contextually dissonant, aesthetically vulgar, proportionally inappropriate and visually disconcerting, all on a monumental scale yet to be fully ascertained.

3. Could work; but lose the blue glass and the overdone skeletonized spandrel motif...IOW, the (not too) odd polygon idea with a snappy façade such as can be found in Melbourne or TO, provided ESB's presence is duly respected.


Obviously they wouldn't recycle those exact proposals for this site, but Foster is well capable, as is Bjark Ingels BIG, which may or may not still be on.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 11:12 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is online now
N, N-Dimethyltryptamine
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 28,960
Vornado picks Bjarke Ingels revamp of 2 Penn Plaza over demolition



Quote:
So much for replacing 2 Penn Plaza with a new ground-up building; Vornado Realty Trust’s CEO, Steven Roth, announced Tuesday that it was sticking to the planned Bjarke Ingels redesign of the building, instead of demolishing the existing structure. The Commercial Observer first reported the news, which Roth announced on Vornado’s first quarter earnings call, yesterday.

Though the 2 Penn Plaza revamp is at least two years away, Roth indicated that a complete demolition of the existing structure didn’t seem feasible, and that the Bjarke Ingels design was the best way to move forward.

The revamp plan would add nearly 300,000 square feet of space to the existing building, and make the floor plates on the lower floors more appealing to future tenants. One of the notable features of the Ingels redesign was the flowing, glass skirt-like structure that would be located over the entrance to the building. Other aspects of this revamp include adding a floor-to-ceiling glass facade, redoing the interiors, and upgrading the mechanical systems in the building.
==================
NYCurbed
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 11:42 PM
citybooster citybooster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 280
So what does it ultimately mean for Penn Station? Nothing continuing the present status should be considered... we cannot have an underground, lightless, lifeless maze where so many people come into and leave the city. We'll have Moynihan Station for a more than good enough facsimile of the past with Penn Station, though even that fine building can't do the scale of majestic grandeur that was the old Penn Station. Hopefully we can have a better experience than scurrying out like rats a dour, dank underground.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted May 3, 2018, 5:26 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
So what does it ultimately mean for Penn Station?
The Cuomo plan, which includes removing the theater at MSG for a new entrance on 8th Avenue is still moving forward, but Vornado had a greater plan here for the 7th Avenue side. And there is still the matter of the MSG air rights that have to go somewhere.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted May 1, 2018, 9:58 PM
Amanita's Avatar
Amanita Amanita is offline
Crane Goddess
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,111
It will be interesting to see how Two Penn does with a reclad
__________________
"Build me to the heavens, and Life never stops"
"Live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be"
-Angel
"Prayers are fleeting and wars are forgotten, but what is built endures"
-Ambassador DeLenn, Babylon 5
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted May 1, 2018, 10:59 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Leftist Correctist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 6,257
What a boner killer
__________________
Trumpism is the road to ruin
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 12:22 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is online now
N, N-Dimethyltryptamine
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 28,960
So much potential, yet its the area that seems to be a massive nightmare to develop.

IF there is area that really needs a revamp and demo, its this one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 2:17 AM
NYer34 NYer34 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
So much potential, yet its the area that seems to be a massive nightmare to develop.

IF there is area that really needs a revamp and demo, its this one.
^^ Meh. The area itself really isn't that bad, other than the urban-development follies of MSG / 1 Penn Plaza / 2 Penn Plaza. Otherwise the area is well developed and fairly pleasant - it just needs some good gentrification.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted May 2, 2018, 3:38 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 41,135
^ It's bad considering what and where it is. We're talking Penn Station, the top commuter transit hub in the country. It should be as developed as the area around Grand Central. Instead, we have parking lots, open and enclosed around the area, many buildings that have seen better days, and lowrise retail strips. It should be developing as much as Hudson Yards is.

The thing with Vornado is, they can never make up their mind about anything. First they're building 15 Penn. Then they're not. Then they're building it again. And then again, maybe not. There was the Penn East tower, with a modified base of 1 Penn. Then that was scrapped. Who knows what they will do with their holdings in the area. The plan to open Penn Station to more daylight was exciting enough, but now that may go the way of everything else Vornado has touched in the area. Meanwhile, Related, Brookfield, and Tishman are moving right along, in an area further removed from transit. You won't find a better location for a tower than the Hotel Penn Site, or Vornado's other holdings in the area.


We'll see what becomes of this...



https://therealdeal.com/2018/05/01/v...self-up-again/

Quote:
Steven Roth, CEO of the firm, said it’s possible Vornado will spin off a development company from its income-producing real estate. The rationale: Vornado has several expensive development projects in planning around Penn Station, and REIT investors tend to dislike the uncertainty associated with development.


Lot's of potential...


__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Proposals
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:58 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.