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  #3661  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2015, 6:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Majin View Post
Now when the F is the hotel supposed to start?
I think it will start next week now that the financing for the arena is safe.
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  #3662  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2015, 3:49 AM
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Dreams of a Hip, High-Tech Sacramento Hinge on Kings’ New Home Court

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/12/re...ourt.html?_r=0
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  #3663  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2015, 6:22 PM
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Looks like there are some vehicles and equipment working on the tower portion. But it is hard to tell from the webcam. Can anyone get a closer look?
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  #3664  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2015, 8:55 PM
jbradway jbradway is offline
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Originally Posted by enigma99a View Post
Looks like there are some vehicles and equipment working on the tower portion. But it is hard to tell from the webcam. Can anyone get a closer look?
Yeah it's underway now according to Ryan Lillis of the Bee. Will be finished in early 2017. Before the NCAA tournament scheduled that spring.

Soil stabilization and underground foundation work has started at hotel/condo tower. Cranes will arrive this fall for construction
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  #3665  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 2:19 PM
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  #3666  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 5:55 AM
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now that the Kings' hotel tower is going to have less condo units, is the overall height going to be smaller too or will it be displaced by more hotel rooms?
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  #3667  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 7:17 AM
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Originally Posted by enigma99a View Post
now that the Kings' hotel tower is going to have less condo units, is the overall height going to be smaller too or will it be displaced by more hotel rooms?
Where did you read it will have less condo units? It's still pegged to have 69 units on the top four floors. It has always been 16 stories.
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  #3668  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 3:10 PM
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Where did you read it will have less condo units? It's still pegged to have 69 units on the top four floors. It has always been 16 stories.
The Sacramento Business Journal stated that the number of condos went from 69 to 50.

This isn't shocking, I'm actually surprised they didn't get rid of all the condos. What they should be doing is adding 100 more condos.

They also gave no reason for the reduction.
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  #3669  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 3:40 PM
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Here is what I don't understand. For their own projects to be successful (not the arena, the surrounding retail portion of the project which is significant) there needs to be a huge boost for MORE housing downtown. It doesn't have to necessarily be in the hotel tower, but the kings themselves should be pushing for more housing directly surrounding the arena (K street, J street, L street, etc).

Developing thousands of sqft of retail with ZERO housing nearby is just shooting themselves in the foot.
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  #3670  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 7:35 PM
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It seems like every time housing is proposed in the central business district, excuses come up as to why it can't happen, or the number of units gets shaved down. 50 units on a 10 acre site is just plain silly--that's actually a lower population density than the central business district has now, at about 7 units/acre. Other than the 700 K Street apartment building, I'm not sure there are any concrete plans for housing in the central business district, which should really be seeing thousands of units.

I assume part of this is because the major developer groups in the region are still suburban developers, who still depend on the creation of new suburbs, and many of those developers feel that downtown housing is a threat to their business model. They want these young Millenial professionals to buy single-family homes in their suburbs, not living downtown in converted old office or industrial buildings or new high-rises/mid-rises, and the arena is there to encourage them to drive downtown, spend money, and then drive home. What really happens is, when Millenials (or GenXers or whatever) who want to live and work downtown see Sacramento and discover they can't get the housing type they want, instead of shrugging their shoulders and buying a McMansion in North Natomas, they shrug their shoulders and pick another city.

Even the draft Downtown Housing Initiative (click for a link to the draft plan) seems more intended as a way to streamline suburban development proposals even as it attempts to put Downtown front and center, as it was also written in part by suburban developer advocates like Region Builders. While the emphasis on affordable housing and housing for homeless is something I support, I assume that their inclusion are a way to discourage "market rate" customers from wanting to live downtown as it plays into their fears of living next door to "the projects." Downtown Sacramento Partnership and Midtown Business Association both went to great efforts to produce studies claiming that they already have far too much low-income housing already, as if intending to divert the proposed 2500 low income/1500 homeless housing from their boundaries, which begs the question, where is this low-income housing supposed to go, not to mention the 6000 proposed units of market rate housing? From the look of things, it's not going to fit into the Arena site, and the housing count in the Railyards looks like it's going to be cut in half.
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  #3671  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2015, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
I assume part of this is because the major developer groups in the region are still suburban developers
You keep saying this, but there is A LOT things building built/proposed/in the works Downtown, such as the Arena, Arena related retail, Kaiser, K street projects, etc, which ALL depend on PERMANENT housing near their projects.

So developers themselves have a VESTED INTEREST in pushing for more housing downtown. Yes suburban developers still exist in this region and they have no interest downtown. Who cares. But there are OTHER developers who DO have a VESTED INTEREST, so why aren't they showing up? I mean seriously, the Arena retail, the Marshal Hotel rehab retail, the K street housing retail, and the inevitable Arena related bar/clubs/restaurants that will come shortly after will

**ALL DEPEND ON HOUSING DOWNTOWN**

Not housing 2-3 miles away in Midtown. Not housing at The Mill at Broadway. But housing IN THE ACTUAL CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.

What the hell is going on here? I'm starting to think all of this Downtown Resurgence is going to flop on it's face if we don't get any god damn housing Downtown.
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  #3672  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2015, 3:05 AM
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Can't someone just please buy the damn Scientology Building, convert it into residential, and put a bar/restaurant/lounge on the ground floor.
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  #3673  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2015, 6:36 AM
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That would be nice, but the Scientologists tend to stay put once they own a building. They probably just finished getting all the Thetans out.

Majin: I agree that a downtown resurgence will flop on its face if we don't get a whole lot of downtown housing, but it seems like the business community is the biggest obstacle--if it's not the suburban developers who don't want their business model messed with, it's office building developers who don't want residential because office generates more income per square foot, offices don't need so many kitchens and bathrooms, and office tenants don't complain as much about noise and clean streets and public safety as much as residents do. It's the "Not in My Business District!" attitude. Yes, they have a vested interest in seeing downtown residential happen, but none of them want to actually do it, and they don't want anyone else to do it and set a bad example. Which is pretty much the attitude that destroyed the population, nightlife and vitality of downtown Sacramento in the first place back in the 1950s, in favor of safe, boring, predictable office buildings and safe, boring predictable shopping malls, connected via freeway to safe, boring, predictable suburbs.
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  #3674  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2015, 6:37 AM
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  #3675  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2015, 6:23 PM
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Looks like test piles are being driven

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  #3676  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2015, 12:53 AM
travis bickle travis bickle is offline
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
It seems like every time housing is proposed in the central business district, excuses come up as to why it can't happen, or the number of units gets shaved down. 50 units on a 10 acre site is just plain silly--that's actually a lower population density than the central business district has now, at about 7 units/acre. Other than the 700 K Street apartment building, I'm not sure there are any concrete plans for housing in the central business district, which should really be seeing thousands of units.

I assume part of this is because the major developer groups in the region are still suburban developers, who still depend on the creation of new suburbs, and many of those developers feel that downtown housing is a threat to their business model. They want these young Millenial professionals to buy single-family homes in their suburbs, not living downtown in converted old office or industrial buildings or new high-rises/mid-rises, and the arena is there to encourage them to drive downtown, spend money, and then drive home. What really happens is, when Millenials (or GenXers or whatever) who want to live and work downtown see Sacramento and discover they can't get the housing type they want, instead of shrugging their shoulders and buying a McMansion in North Natomas, they shrug their shoulders and pick another city.

Even the draft Downtown Housing Initiative (click for a link to the draft plan) seems more intended as a way to streamline suburban development proposals even as it attempts to put Downtown front and center, as it was also written in part by suburban developer advocates like Region Builders. While the emphasis on affordable housing and housing for homeless is something I support, I assume that their inclusion are a way to discourage "market rate" customers from wanting to live downtown as it plays into their fears of living next door to "the projects." Downtown Sacramento Partnership and Midtown Business Association both went to great efforts to produce studies claiming that they already have far too much low-income housing already, as if intending to divert the proposed 2500 low income/1500 homeless housing from their boundaries, which begs the question, where is this low-income housing supposed to go, not to mention the 6000 proposed units of market rate housing? From the look of things, it's not going to fit into the Arena site, and the housing count in the Railyards looks like it's going to be cut in half.
It's important to remember how complex development deals are and how many masters a developer must answer to. Above all others is the financial master, those people and institutions who are investing in your project and to whom you are promising a specific return.

One of the first questions any investor, of any size, asks you to answer is, "What are similar products in that market delivering?" You need to prove that your proposal will sell as promised, and the best way to do that is by using other projects with a similar profile as a guide.

There are no other high-rise condos anywhere in Sacramento. Selling this concept to financial institutions for funding would be virtually impossible.

One of the few scenarios where you could attract capital in lieu of a demonstrable track record of product success is with a strong developer that enjoys superb relations with financiers. I am sure that is the case here, but even with that advantage, investors typically resist an unproven model.

What I imagine happened is that when the arena team shopped this project to investors, the response to the condos was tepid at best. But given the strong track-record of the developer and the good relationship, a compromise was reached by cutting the number of units from 69 to 50.

These units MUST be successful. While possible, we are unlikely to see high-rise residential (for-sale) built in Sacramento until some kind of track record has been established. So I wouldn't look for any for-sale high-rise product to get announced in Sacramento until 2017. But if these units quickly sell-out, look for a land rush of new residential, for-sale, high-rises downtown.

301 CM could prove the exception to that, but again, it would require a strong developer with an outstanding history of successful, high-rise residential.

As far as any assertion that Sacramento developers see downtown housing as a threat to their business model blah blah blah... meh. What is more likely is that because they have zero experience with a high-rise product, no one will finance anything other than what they are historically successful at.

I know that doesn't agree with some people's preferred narrative, but as someone who does this successfully for a living, it is probably far closer to the truth...

Last edited by travis bickle; Aug 25, 2015 at 4:23 PM.
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  #3677  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2015, 4:26 AM
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I don't see it as being some kind of sinister conspiracy so much as them being a bunch of 'fraidy cats.
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  #3678  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2015, 4:20 PM
travis bickle travis bickle is offline
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I don't see it as being some kind of sinister conspiracy so much as them being a bunch of 'fraidy cats.
Easy to be bold when you're not responsible for the tab...
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  #3679  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2015, 6:21 PM
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Thank you for the thorough explanation, Travis. Here's hoping that the condos around the new arena sell out like hotcakes.
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  #3680  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2015, 7:24 PM
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Easy to be bold when you're not responsible for the tab...
That could be the motto for the arena project as a whole. Although all the puff pieces in local news talked about what steely-jawed riverboat gamblers they were a year or so ago, now that things are underway they're back to advocating the cautious, slow approach they called backwards thinking in 2013. *shrug* Maybe they're hoping for another round of government handouts for subsequent residential development?
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