Rapid Transit

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Also, Note that K-W isn't under Metrolinx Jurisdiction, though I think anywhere with GO service (Bus or train) should be IMO. Metrolinx only manages the GO service in the region, it has no serious interaction with the city.

Thinking about it, I'm not clear on what it means to be in "Metrolinx Jurisdiction." Hamilton is, but HSR is of course not managed by Metrolinx. Metrolinx manages Go service in Waterloo Region, but has nothing to do with Grand River Transit...as it should be. So I guess I have little idea of what it means, practically.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

LRT likely to be ‘really big’ election issue

He says, based on past practice, Hamilton should be entitled to 100 per cent funding for LRT. But if the province came back and said the city had to kick in, say 10 per cent, "I'd like to think we'd listen to that."

I read this article in the paper this morning, and was a bit dismayed by this quote of McHattie's. I know it's just jaw-boning, but I don't care for use of the word "entitled" in most cases, and I don't know why he would specifically say "10 per cent."

I'm glad that Waterloo has just come up on here. Waterloo Region has just begun construction on its LRT, and the funding deal was one third from the federal government; one third from the province; and one third to be paid by the municipality. That deal was a bit disappointing initially as the province had seemed to commit two-thirds, but federal government support had not been expected. That deal, by the way, came after Waterloo Region did much of the planning and assessment stages using municipal money, which I would presume would be a good show of faith when approaching higher levels of government with a funding request.

Given that, why is Hamilton "entitled" to 100%, or maybe 90%? Particularly after Metrolinx paid to have the idea studied and planned, and our municipal government has kind of put it on the back burner- for a number of years- since then.

I don't really mean this to criticize McHattie, I just can't help but feel that this kind of attitude hurts Hamilton's chances to get LRT. Even the people who realize the benefits don't want to have to pay for it!

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

"The figure bandied about by (transportation) Minister (Glen) Murray and others at Queen's Park is $300 million," said Clark of the city's potential obligation.

And where does Clark get this number? To my recollection, there hasn't been anything that specific "bandied about"... or is he using some of the musings of his former Tory brethren on this?

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

Given that, why is Hamilton "entitled" to 100%, or maybe 90%? Particularly after Metrolinx paid to have the idea studied and planned, and our municipal government has kind of put it on the back burner- for a number of years- since then.

It's got more to do with funding decisions that were made on the Toronto projects, not the KW LRT (or Ottawa's, for that matter).

There's a good argument that the source funding proportions should be the same across the province. But if the GTHA is going to be treated as a different case, using special revenue tools to generate the money for capital expenditures, then I see no problem with Metrolinx not using the traditional proportions so long as they are applied consistently across the GTHA (though the Feds kicked in some money for the Scarborough subway... I'd rather they put money into the Ontario transportation kitty and let it be distributed appropriately but that's not a sexy way for them to invest in infrastructure - they can't easily point to the bang we got for their bucks)

[SteelTown]

Premier Wynne will make a public transit funding announcement today. So far so good for Hamiltons LRT announcement dr Wednesday

[HillStreetBlues]

The Scarborough subway is getting money from the federal government (has Hamilton yet prepared its application for federal investment for LRT?), but also from the City of Toronto. The municipality’s share will come in at between $500 and $900 million (twenty or thirty percent).

Mississauga and Peel claim not to know how much the Hurontario LRT will cost (it is estimated to be $1.3 billion), but say they expect the municipalities to carry some of the cost.

It doesn’t seem to me that there is a traditional funding proportion for Metrolinx. Even if there is, I lament that our supposedly strongest proponents of LRT are going on record practically saying that LRT is not important enough to us for us to kick in more than 10% of the cost at the municipal level.

[SteelTown]

Wynne announces $29 billion transit and transportation plan

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspa...im_hudak.html#

Premier Kathleen Wynne says her Liberal government will spend $29 billion over the next decade on transit and transportation.

Speaking to a noon-hour Toronto crowd of about 500, ‎Wynne said among other things it will dedicate 7.5 cents of the gas tax and the HST on fuel tax — totalling more than $1.3 billion — to build new transit, roads, highways and bridges.

“We need an aggressive and serious investment in transit right here in the GTHA,” she said, referring to the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area.

Wynne said the plan also includes new so-called dedicated revenue tools, redirecting existing revenue and debt financing.

Wynne was short of specifics, saying details will be revealed in the spring budget.

However, she did say there will be high occupancy lane tolls as laid out in last year’s budget.

She also explained two dedicated transit and transportation funds will be created — one for the GTHA and the other for the rest of the province. Wynne also noted the Green Bond program will be directed to the plan.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

The Scarborough subway is getting money from the federal government (has Hamilton yet prepared its application for federal investment for LRT?), but also from the City of Toronto. The municipality’s share will come in at between $500 and $900 million (twenty or thirty percent).

Mississauga and Peel claim not to know how much the Hurontario LRT will cost (it is estimated to be $1.3 billion), but say they expect the municipalities to carry some of the cost.

It doesn’t seem to me that there is a traditional funding proportion for Metrolinx. Even if there is, I lament that our supposedly strongest proponents of LRT are going on record practically saying that LRT is not important enough to us for us to kick in more than 10% of the cost at the municipal level.

I wasn't implying that there is a "traditional" funding split for Metrolinx, just that they've not followed the proportional shares by level of government that have often been used in the past for big infrastructure projects.

If there are going to be regional funding tools applied to generate the transit money, then I believe the province should manage the funding based on the revenue they bring and distribute it rationally. I'd just like the funding model to be consistent and clear... which won't likely happen soon given all the politics at play. It would help if the federal government would step in with a plan to provide the funding pool with a consistent injection of money (and that should not just be in the GTHA, but across Canada)

I believe the original LRT plan for Scarborough was to have been provincially funded, and the City of Toronto's commitment (and the federal one) happened when the subway replaced it and the province said they wouldn't make up cost differences. I may be mistaken but Eglinton Crosstown is provincially funded too. Rightly or wrongly, these are the kind of things that Hamilton councillors point to when they say they expect the province to fully fund the B-Line LRT (as well as the provincial promises from the past, which may as well be ancient history now)

I find council's current position ridiculous. They expect full funding, but also that no additional revenue will be drawn from city residents via the so-called revenue tools to help provide it. And there is no willingness to step up and finance a portion from city resources, which is a little duplicitous given the city's willingness to pay for new highways or other big "transformative" infrastructure projects.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I find council's current position ridiculous. They expect full funding, but also that no additional revenue will be drawn from city residents via the so-called revenue tools to help provide it. And there is no willingness to step up and finance a portion from city resources, which is a little duplicitous given the city's willingness to pay for new highways or other big "transformative" infrastructure projects.

It sounds like we’re in complete agreement. Although I don’t see anything untoward about wanting full funding, it’s dismaying when they say they will not consider more than a token proportion from municipal coffers. Particularly, as you say, when they have no issue with the city paying for highway interchanges and freeways.

Of the three credible candidates for mayor currently, Eisenberger seems to me to be the most likely to be a real “champion” for LRT. He is right that any momentum LRT once had is now lost. Who can build it again? Who is willing to say that LRT would be a great thing for mobility in Hamilton, would be a great thing for spurring development of Hamilton, and therefore is something to which Hamiltonians are willing to contribute?

[thistleclub]

Two cents/L brought Hamilton $11,119,297 in 2008/2009. If you take that period as a representative sample, 7.5 cents/L would work out to around $41.7 million annually going toward transit infrastructure in Hamilton. This announcement was telegraphed in a piece in yesterday's Star talked about "designating the provincial portion of the HST paid on gas and fuel taxes to a transit fund that could be leveraged to borrow up to $2.50 for every dollar."

How this ultimately shakes out is anyone's guess. It's all written on the wind at this point.

[SteelTown]

Fred Eisenberger ‏@FredEisenberger
@Glen4ONT @jasonturnbull great announcement today Re: funding for transit. Specifically what does it mean for transit funding in Hamilton ?

Glen Murray ‏@Glen4ONT 29m
@FredEisenberger @jasonturnbull 15 min all day service. Let's sit down with #HamOnt & agree on LRT/BRT partnership.

[SteelTown]

Wednesday Glen Murray suppose to make a funding announcement for Hamilton's rapid transit.

[SteelTown]

New Ontario transit funds will include cash for Hamilton LRT
Dedicated fund would help build projects such as Hamilton's LRT

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...-lrt-1.2609990

Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne announced Monday that the Liberal government will dedicate $15 billion over the next ten years toward transit and transportation in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area, a fund that will help pay for Hamilton's LRT.

According to the plan, proceeds from the dedicated fund being created for the GTHA would help build the next set of priority projects included in Metrolinx's regional transportation plan.

That dedication of funds includes controversial priority projects like the 14km Hamilton LRT line (the B-Line) proposed to run from McMaster University to Eastgate Square running through downtown.

However, the premier did not give any details on the amount of money the province will invest, or how of the project would be funded. However Wynne stated that the plan will be fleshed out in the Spring budget. Hamilton councillors are looking for full capital funding for the $800 million project from Queen's Park.

‎Wynne, who spoke at the Toronto Region Board of Trade, said that she will dedicate 7.5 cents of the gas tax and the HST on fuel tax -- more than $1.3 billion -- to build transit, roads, highways and bridges in the GTHA.

The premier also promised that this plan could be rolled out without raising taxes on gas or personal income taxes on low- to middle-income earners.

Brian McHattie, city councillor and Hamilton mayor hopeful was pleased with the news.

"I congratulate Primer Wynne for staying on the program. She's always been a big supporter of the LRT, " said McHattie.

Following this announcement, the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce Light Rail Transit's task force is set to hold an emergency meeting on April 23 to discuss the new developments.

City council is asking the province for 100 per cent funding of the B-Line project which they estimate will attract 130,000 people to the area by 2031.

"This project is critical to the health of Hamilton's economy," said McHattie. "But, the devil is in the details."

However city councillor and former provincial minister of transportation Brad Clark, who is also running for mayor, feels differently.

The councillor does not think that it possible for the city to receive the full amount for the B-Line. He projects that the city will finance the project, but will ask the municipal government for one third of the cost- too high a price for the city.

"Everyone can still win, we just can't aspire too high. We have to manage our expectations," said Clark. "Premier Wynne has realized that her predecessor over-promised and she's doing what she can with a finite amount of money."

There are other measures the province can take when it comes to this allotted funding according to Clark. The councillor favours adding more frequent trains and busses to existing routes and upgrading existing infrastructure.

"This is a positive improvement at a fraction of the cost. We don't need rail lines. What we need is infrastructure," said Clark.

[thistleclub]

Liberals promise high speed rail in Kitchener within 10 years
(CBC News, Apr 15 2014)

Ontario Transportation Minister Glen Murray says his Liberal government will deliver high speed rail service connecting Toronto, Pearson International Airport, Kitchener and London within 10 years.

Murray told CBC News in an interview the move would be an "economic game changer." He offered few specifics, not even the cost, just that details would be coming soon.

Read it in full here.

[thistleclub]

Liberals detour from transit vision to stay alive
(Toronto Star, Martin Regg Cohn, Apr 15 2014)

A year ago, Kathleen Wynne vowed in a bold speech to Toronto’s Board of Trade to transform our transit map.

This week, the premier made a return visit to that same blue chip forum: A year older and wiser, Wynne is delivering half the plan she promised.

For a minority government, cooking up half a loaf is safer than none at all if it avoids being sliced and diced by the opposition. Hence Wynne’s increasingly transitory tone on transit.

Last year, fresh from winning the Liberal leadership, Wynne gave a blue-sky talk as if the sky were the limit — musing about taxes and tolls to help bankroll a $40-billion blueprint for the GTA and Hamilton. Back then, she commiserated with her business audience about the unwillingness of other parties to do the heavy lifting.

“Some politicians have made a short-sighted decision to avoid real solutions,” Wynne said at the time. “Parties do their polling and they don’t see easy answers; they don’t see easy wins.”

It’s true that the opposition Tories and New Democrats were reading the warning signs in the polls. Now, it turns out, the Liberals can read, too.

Last year, Wynne told her audience that Los Angeles had supported a higher sales tax for transit expansion. And she described how Stockholm’s citizens voted for tolls to reduce congestion in their city.

Brimming with confidence, Wynne mused aloud that “good policy and public opinion are intersecting... we see this kind of culture shift is already happening in Ontario.”

Not so fast on rapid transit. The polls still show that while people like mass transit, they massively dislike paying for it.


Read it in full here.

[thistleclub]

Hamilton wants transportation minister to justify LRT remarks
(Hamilton Spectator, Meredith MacLeod, Apr 16 2014)

City councillors are firing back at Ontario's transportation minister over his comments that Hamilton needs to act on his requests for a meeting about light-rail transit.

The general issues committee moved Wednesday to ask Minister Glen Murray to appear before councillors a day after he appeared on CHML's Bill Kelly show. During that interview, Murray said city officials should "roll up their sleeves" and meet with the province and "lock in a funding partnership."

He added: "Other municipalities have done it. We gotta get this started in Hamilton."

He said the province needs "something a little more clear from Hamilton city council than pay for it all," referring to council's stance supporting LRT if it doesn't require digging into local tax revenue.

Councillor Brad Clark said he had checked with the city manager Chris Murray and the city clerk and no letter had been received from the transportation minister requesting a meeting.

"The minister stated very clearly that the reason LRT has not moved forward is that Hamilton doesn't have its act together and put the blame on us."

He said the city has done everything asked as regards LRT.

Councillor Sam Merulla called Murray's comments a "fabrication" and "irresponsible."

City councillors also asked senior staff to meet with executives from Metrolinx, the regional transit authority, about the numbers behind LRT.

[flar]

You know who's irresponsible? Hamilton City Council.

Hamilton City Council should get the blame. The province is offering a large sum of money, and the City of Hamilton has no firm plans for anything.

Hamilton will end up losing this opportunity. Meanwhile, Ottawa, Waterloo and Mississauga will have shovels in the ground.

[Jon Dalton]

WTF? I guess there is no announcement on LRT today.

Hamilton is the only city that fucked this up.

[matt602]

You know what the minister is really saying about it? Show some fucking initiative. He's not saying "wait for me to formally a request a meeting with you through the proper channels". He wants to see us show some life about this thing and make it look like we actually WANT LRT, not that we'll just take it cause you're paying for it. Or whatever.

Merulla knows whats up.

[Innsertnamehere]

Flaherty's funeral has probably screwed up today's schedule, I wouldn't look too far into it.

[bigguy1231]

The city is not going to make a decision until they know exactly what it is going to cost the taxpayers of this city. They have been asking for the last year and the province has failed to give them an answer. Until the province lets them know a decision won't be made.
At the same time if it ends up costing the city a dime it will be rejected. There is no desire to saddle the city with more debt when we already have huge infrastructure costs coming up over the next number of years.