The future of Hamilton's public transit

[markbarbera]

Some photos of Dublin's Luas LRT system. Sorry if I seem obsessive, but I fell in love with this tramway, and was even more impressed when I looked it up after coming back home and saw how successful it has been.







OK, and a couple of Manchester's tram. It ran well too but Dublin's is sexier

[SteelTown]

I think we all have the same obession with LRT, trams, trolley, etc.

Indeedy Dublin's LRT is sexy. Thanks for sharing.

[DC83]

Wow, Dublins style of tram is exactly what the HSR needs to attract riders when it builds the LRT line. It is DEFINATELY sexy!!

thanks mark!

[raisethehammer]

yup...great stuff.
no need to apologize for being 'obsessed' with LRT.
We need to be the balance in a city obsessed with cars.

[coalminecanary]

i want to see a connecting link up the mtn via gondola with a lookout tower at the top. can be a key part of the transit system and also an "image" thing. would be way cooler than a fountain in the bay or a decorative tootbridge on the qew in my opinion.. and more functional too!

[the dude]

wasn't there talk of an incline railway linking the lower city with concession? thought i'd heard something about that. a gondola would be cool too. there are some cool photos circulating showing portland's gondola system.

[flar]

^^there was talk about that, it's a great idea. Kinda slipped off the radar I guess. The Wentworth steps are built on the foundation of the old incline railway. They should definitely bring it back.

[markbarbera]

I'd like to see a funicular connecting Gage and Upper Gage:



This would link Gage Park and Mountain Brow Park. The upper terminus would connect to east mountain bus routes (22, 23 - even 41 if slightly redirected), and the lower terminus connects with Delaware serving downtown and the east end. Plus, it would act as an additional attraction and draw to the park.

[matt602]

Would also look cool going over the rail yard at the bottom

[HAMRetrofit]

I like the idea of seeing Hamilton using a rapid transit system raised like the Chicago 'L'. It would allow for higher density development than streetcar. I understand cost would be a major issue. To be progressive real rapid transit is the way to go. Heavy rapid transit attracts major global developments. Allow some major global transit conglomerate build and operate the system.

I can imagine the system raised on large steel girders signaling the city's steel manufactruing history. Heavy Rapid transit would realy put the city ahead of the game in terms of development. Extend the system into Burlington and Oakville to draw in commuters and skilled workers from the western GTA and connect it to the Hamilton airport through a major downtown rail and transit terminal.

This is the type of infrastructure development that made New York and Chicago the successes they are. Hamilton could so easily tap into the major development that Toronto is experiencing.

[DC83]

But NYC & Chitown didn't have the technology for LIGHT RAIL back then that we now have.
An Elevated rapid transit line such as the "L" in Chicago would be perceived by most Hamiltonians as ugly, and will not help raise ridership. Also using "heavy metal" to showcase our history in the Steel Industry is (IMO) moving backwards.
This city is trying to rebrand itself as a clean, new, "green" city... building huge elevated metal tracks for heavy rail would only ruin our hopes at rebranding ourselves. THIS is why Light Rail, esp one similar to Dublin's above, would be the best option for the city. Something that will take us into the furure rather than holding us back in the past.

[Berklon]

I agree. The "L" and all the other cities with those raised steel tracks are eyesoars and is perceived as old-school.

Hamilton needs a set-up like Portland, Dublin or Vancouver (if elevated). We need to look more modern and environment friendly. Those big metal tracks in the air don't scream "green" even if they do have environment friendly rail. Perception and image is something Hamilton really needs to work on, and they can use all the help possible.

[HAMRetrofit]

I perceive the elevate rail in Chicago and most people perceive it as a defining feature of the city. Chicago is third in the US for transit ridership so obviously it easily is attracting substantial transit ridership. The heavy metal infrastructure is beautiful in my opinion. To call these "eye sores" is to lack urban sensibility and exhibit bad taste.

As a Hamilton outsider the only thing that interests me about the city is its past and not these schemes to rebrand itself. The city is dense, red brick, rusted metal, and gritty with a natural green backdrop (escarpment and cootes). The parts of the city south of the escarpment are not interesting. A raised transit system along Upper James would enitrely change the street and density of mountain urbanization.

I personally don't care for transit systems that attempt to look futuristic like Vancouver's Skytrain or Detroit's crappy people mover. My experience with street car systems is that they operate quite slow especially many of the routes here in Toronto. I always attemp to locate within walking distance of the subway in any city I live in over streetcar and you will notice this is where the highest density always is.

[HAMRetrofit]

The Chicago 'L'

[raisethehammer]

not a fan of the "L".
i realize its cheaper than a subway, but Hamilton doesn't really need either.
a modern LRT line (or a few of them) would be suffice for us.

[coalminecanary]

ya but compare those pictures to these:




These trains are part of the urban streetscape. they are of a human friendly scale. they are inegrated into their neighbourhoods not hovering above them. i see no attractive development along the rail lines in those L shots... there is no incentive for businesses to locate facing the street unless the train is ON the street...

street level rail does not have to be slow, the way old school streetcars are. think of it more like a subway line that runs on the street... with dedicated transit signals and its own lane instead of a tunnel. the closest street level approximation in toronto is spadina... and spadina streetcars run much faster than say queen west where they mingle with traffic and continually get cut off by cabbies.

[HAMRetrofit]

I live on the St. Clair LRT line trust me it is no great shakes even after the adding the independent median. Before that I lived on the College Street line it was jammed and incredibly slow every morning. I would take a rapid line like the 'L' over the street car any day.

I personally prefer the infrastructure of the 'L' over those low/mid density streetcar streets they are a bit 'ma and pa' for my taste. I tend to prefer more severe urban conditions and higher density then that.

I think Main Street in Hamilton is kind of a lost cause for creating a beautified street front. It could serve as the main artery of an elevated rapid rail line. It would still be wide enough to allow light to the sidewalks for a decent street. The streets walkable from this main artery like King Street would benefit in a major way from this system.

Perhaps build one rapid line elevated along Main from McMaster to Centennial Parkway and build streetcar capillaries that feed off of it along James Street/Upper James to the Airport, Ottawa Street, and Centennial.

[coalminecanary]

I think you are stuck in the old fashioned streetcar mentality. "modern streetcars" or LRT are completely different animals.

I don't think we'll ever see enough interest in rail here to justify the budget of an elevated line. Imagine the capital cost difference. The LRT project needs to be feasible using mostly provincial money. Street level rail offers so many capital price benefits I don't think we'll have an option for elevated anyway:

"Alberta C-Train used many common light rail techniques to keep costs low, including minimizing underground and elevated trackage, sharing transit malls with buses, leasing rights-of-way from freight railroads, and combining LRT construction with freeway expansion. As a result, Calgary ranks toward the less expensive end of the scale with capital costs of around $24 million per mile"

I also disagree with your point about main being a lost cause. People will build and rebuild if there is an incentive, and street level LRT would be the key. Where is the incentive for a shopowner to open on main beside an elevated line where riders wont even see his sign let alone the storefront? with elevated, the only devcelopment will be right next to the stations

and thats another point.. the stations are going to require a lot more money to build, and accessibility wil lbe a pain in the ass requiring elevators etc... with street level, you ramp the stop up to train level and its accesible. low tech, high usability.

raised driving/rail surfaces make for an ugly streetscape. look underneath burlington st or the gardiner...

[raisethehammer]

Main St could be beautiful...look at the streetscape along Main West from Dundurn to Queen...most of it is beautiful and pedestrian-scaled. Same with downtown by the courthouse.

[coalminecanary]

yep there are tonnes of great buildings along the entire stretch that simply go undeveloped because there are NO PEOPLE to patronize them... because people dont like to walk 4 inches form a f'n highway.