Which municipalities would you merge together?

YannickTO · #1 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 9:16 AM**

Hi !!

If it came down to you, which Canadian cities would you merge together? Forget the politics, forget the feasibility, we're just fantasy talking for now.

I'm mostly familiar with Quebec municipalities and here are my ideas for new merged cities, in the near future.

1 - Disraeli (the city and the parish)
2 - Plessisville (the city and the parish)
3 - Joliette (with all its surrounding municipalities)
4 - Beloeil (with all its surrounding municipalities)
5 - Roussillon (Saint-Constant, Candiac, Sainte-Catherine, Delson)
6 - Chateauguay (with Mercier and Léry)
7 - Saint-Eustache (with Deux-Montagnes)
8 - Blainville (with Boisbriand, Sainte-Thérèse and Rosemère)
9 - Terrebonne with Mascouche
10 - Repentigny with Charlemagne
11 - L'Épiphanie (the city and the parish)
12 - Brossard with La Prairie
13 - Chambly (with Carignan and Richelieu)
14 - L'Île-Perrot (all cities on the island)
15 - Les Coteaux (all cities from Ontario border to Coteau-du-Lac)

Any other cities in the country you feel should merge together? We could even list the name of new cities with its «new« population.

Thanks!!

SignalHillHiker · #2 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 11:33 AM**

I'd merge all of the municipalities in the St. John's CMA into three cities.

If the agricultural/suburban subdivision neighbourhood of Goulds stays with St. John's:

St. John's (St. John's, Petty Harbour-Maddox Cove, Witless Bay, Bay Bulls)
Conception (Conception Bay South, Mount Pearl, Paradise, Portugal Cove-St. Philip's)
Torbay (Torbay, Logy Bay-Middle Cove-Outer Cove, Flatrock, Pouch Cove, Bauline)

If Goulds is given to Mount Pearl, as probably should've been the case anyway, then I'd only merge the suburban municipalities.

Mount Pearl (Mount Pearl plus Goulds, Conception Bay South, Paradise, Petty Harbour-Maddox Cove, Witless Bay, Bay Bulls)
Torbay (Torbay, Portugal Cove-St. Philip's, Logy Bay-Middle Cove-Outer Cove, Flatrock, Pouch Cove, Bauline)

And in either case I'd probably throw Holyrood into whichever includes Conception Bay South. It's not in the CMA for whatever reason but it's part of the unbroken exurban area around Conception Bay.

north 42 · #3 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 1:26 PM**

I would merge Tecumseh and Lasalle and the eastern parts of Lakeshore into Windsor, they are all a connected urban area, and essentially already act as a part of the city. This merger would give the city of Windsor a population of about just under 300,000.

speedog · #4 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 1:47 PM**

Are mergers/amalgamations really needed?

I only ask because I see built up areas like Vancouver and Edmonton which appear (on the surface) to have good working relationships between all municipalities on their doorsteps through representation on working boards/whatever you wish to call it.

In other cases, you have something like Calgary which has always just amalgamated anything it's grew into although I think those days are just about done and I say that as a resident of Calgary for almost 40 years. Airdrie and Chestermere will most likely remain independent of Calgary and even the well built up areas of the Municipal District of Rockyview on Calgary's doorstep - this comes down to tax revenues for the MD and the same plus pride for Airdrie and Chestermere.

I'm not even sure in a fantasy that I'd like to see those two cities amalgamated into Calgary but they would be logical choices as well as the Heritage Pointe community abutting Calgary's southern border. Most likely all water and sewer processing services are already handled by Calgary for those three communities so that wouldn't be a stumbling block.

For Edmonton, probably Edmonton and it's nearby 6 bedroom communities, possibly 7 - would probably bump Edmonton's municipal population past a million if such a merger were to pass.

Taeolas · #5 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 1:54 PM**

For New Brunswick, all three of its biggest cities need mergers.

Moncton, Riverview and Dieppe should all be one community; they could/should probably snag a few more on their borders while they are at it.

Saint John and its Suburbs should be smashed together as well; it would certainly help the city's numbers.

Fredericton should be amalgamated with Lincoln, Hanwell and Oromocto at the very least; the first two are already suburb-communities that are tied tight to the city. Oromocto would just make sense once Lincoln is gone and Freddy and the town would be sharing a border.

JHikka · #6 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 7:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeolas

For New Brunswick, all three of its biggest cities need mergers.

Absolutely.

Moncton: Moncton city, Moncton parish, Riverview town, Dieppe city, Coverdale parish
Saint John: Saint John city, Rothesay town, Quispamsis town, Grand Bay-Westfield town
Fredericton: Fredericton city, New Maryland village, Lincoln parish, Oromocto town, parts of Hanwell RCR, parts of Kingsclear parish
Sussex: Sussex town, Sussex Corner village, parts of Sussex parish
St. Stephen: St. Stephen town, Saint Stephen parish, Dufferin parish
Woodstock: Woodstock town, northern half of Woodstock parish
Bathurst: Bathurst city, Beresford town, northern half of Bathurst parish
Caraquet: Caraquet town, Bas-Caraquet village, Caraquet parish
Richibucto: Richibucto town, Rexton village, northern section of Richibucto parish
Shediac: Shediac town, Shediac parish

By doing this populations change like the following (2011 Census numbers)
Moncton: 69,074->125,334
Saint John: 70,063->105,013
Fredericton: 56,224->83,613
Sussex: 4,312->8,336
St. Stephen: 4,817->7,376
Woodstock: 5,254->7,419
Bathurst: 12,275->21,605
Caraquet: 4,169->6,931
Richibucto: 1,296->4,090
Shediac: 6,053->10,970

There are a ton of examples of smaller towns and villages which could be merged with their surrounding areas as well (Rogersville, Shippagan, Hampton, Minto/Chipman) but what i've listed are mostly for large and medium-sized centres. Haut-Madawaska and Tracadie-Sheila are two recent examples of mergers which absolutely should be happening by removing the absurd number of CSDs and municipal units we have for such a small province.

Sussex is the most infuriating current non-merger for me right now. It's clear residents in Sussex Corner and elsewhere living outside of Sussex are using the town for its services at the expense of local taxpayers. At the very least Sussex & Sussex Corner should be forced to merge. It would help that municipal centre out as there's so much potential in that area for future growth.

Fredericton:

Moncton:

Saint John:

Sussex:

Caraquet:

Acajack · #7 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 7:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Absolutely.

Moncton: Moncton city, Moncton parish, Riverview town, Dieppe city, Coverdale parish

Does anyone really see Dieppe and Riverview in the same municipality? Even if it's with Moncton in between the two?

JHikka · #8 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 8:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Does anyone really see Dieppe and Riverview in the same municipality? Even if it's with Moncton in between the two?

Because this thread is based on fantasy, yes.

A unified Codiac municipality exists only in our wildest dreams unfortunately.

Acajack · #9 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 8:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Because this thread is based on fantasy, yes.

A unified Codiac municipality exists only in our wildest dreams unfortunately.

The NB government does have the power to force its "creatures" to merge, like Quebec and Ontario did.

niwell · #10 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 2:12 PM**

In Ontario there isn't really much to merge anymore! These are off most peoples radar but there are several northern municipalities that could use expanded boundaries though. Kenora, Dryden and Iroquois Falls come to mind as they have relatively built up unincorporated areas just outside their boundaries that have significantly lower tax rates. Other unincorporated areas could stand to be incorporated or merged with nearby municipalities such as those north of SSM, Thunder Bay (Lappe) and the few remaining unincorporated townships in Parry Sound District. Too much development is happening in these areas to the detriment of the nearby municipalities (and provincial government).

The idea of a reorganized GTA comes up often - where there would be one regional government and a series of lower-tier municipalities / a de-amalgamated Toronto. I don't think this would really solve any of the problems it would aim to though. There's enough of a regional planning framework at this point and the commercial tax differentials between municipalities is (slowly) becoming less of a factor.

eemy · #11 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 2:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

In Ontario there isn't really much to merge anymore!

Kitchener and Waterloo would seem to be the obvious ones that aren't merged. I doubt it will ever happen; any savings would likely be minimal and the political costs would likely be too big to make it worthwhile.

toaster · #12 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 10:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

In Ontario there isn't really much to merge anymore! These are off most peoples radar but there are several northern municipalities that could use expanded boundaries though. Kenora, Dryden and Iroquois Falls come to mind as they have relatively built up unincorporated areas just outside their boundaries that have significantly lower tax rates. Other unincorporated areas could stand to be incorporated or merged with nearby municipalities such as those north of SSM, Thunder Bay (Lappe) and the few remaining unincorporated townships in Parry Sound District. Too much development is happening in these areas to the detriment of the nearby municipalities (and provincial government).

.

Iroquois Falls was probably the hardest hit municipality in all of Ontario the last round of amalgamations took place. It took on such a vast and huge area, and was forced to maintain hundreds of kilometres of highway which were downloaded, that came along with this new area (where basically no one lives). It should not be expanded even more.

niwell · #13 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 11:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster

Iroquois Falls was probably the hardest hit municipality in all of Ontario the last round of amalgamations took place. It took on such a vast and huge area, and was forced to maintain hundreds of kilometres of highway which were downloaded, that came along with this new area (where basically no one lives). It should not be expanded even more.

At the same time there is significant development of seasonal camps (and increasingly permanent residents) directly outside the municipal borders. These areas pay a fraction of the tax that IF does but rely heavily on town services. I've seen significant interest from Town staff to have these areas incorporated. It could also be done through a shifting of the borders to the north and east and removing from the south and west. The town centre is basically right beside the border.

The downloading of the highway is a different issue that could be rectified (I'm surprised it doesn't receive funding through the Connecting Links program). Most of the empty land is Crown and is essentially handled at the provincial level anyway. It should also be noted that the Town gets a significant amount of funding through the OMPF.

Laceoflight · #14 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 2:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YannickTO

Hi !!

If it came down to you, which Canadian cities would you merge together? Forget the politics, forget the feasibility, we're just fantasy talking for now.

I'm mostly familiar with Quebec municipalities and here are my ideas for new merged cities, in the near future.

1 - Disraeli (the city and the parish) [3 498]
2 - Plessisville (the city and the parish) [9 332]
3 - Joliette (with all its surrounding municipalities - Joliette, Saint-Charles-Borromée, Notre-Dame-des-Prairies, Saint-Paul, Saint-Pierre, Saint-Thomas, Notre-Dame-de-Lourdes and Saint-Ambroise-de-Kildare ) [60 075]
4 - Beloeil (with all its surrounding municipalities -> I don't know if it would be better to merge each shore of the Richelieu separately, as there is a strong sense of belonging on both sides, east shore being Mont-Saint-Hilaire with Otterburn Park [27 232], and west shore, Beloeil with Saint-Mathieu and McMasterville [30 470])
5 - Roussillon (Saint-Constant, Candiac, Sainte-Catherine, Delson) -> Maybe this should be named Saint-Constant, the historical parish that gave birth to both Sainte-Catherine and Delson. I'd add Saint-Mathieu [53 951]
6 - Chateauguay (with Mercier and Léry) [63 453]
7 - Saint-Eustache (with Deux-Montagnes and Sainte-Marthe-sur-le-Lac, and maybe Pointe-Calumet and Saint-Joseph-du-Lac) [93 867]
8 - Blainville (with Boisbriand, Sainte-Thérèse and Rosemère)
9 - Terrebonne with Mascouche [159 086]
10 - Repentigny with Charlemagne [89 908]
11 - L'Épiphanie (the city and the parish)
12 - Brossard with La Prairie (-> I'd add Saint-Philippe and Candiac to recreate the old parish of La Prairie de la Magdeleine, downtown core being old La Prairie [137 547]
13 - Chambly (with Carignan and Richelieu) [42 922]
14 - L'Île-Perrot (all cities on the island) [38 398]
15 - Les Coteaux (all cities from Ontario border to Coteau-du-Lac) -> excellent idea for this sprawling area [22 302]

Any other cities in the country you feel should merge together? We could even list the name of new cities with its «new« population.

Thanks!!

Pretty good list for Quebec. Municipalities in Quebec are pretty small in area. I would in fact merge every urban agglomeration where the urban fabric is continuous. I'd add some to your list here :

16 - Sainte-Thérèse (the former greater municipality of Sainte-Thérèse : Sainte-Thérèse, Blainville, Boisbriand, Rosemère, Bois-des-Filion, Lorraine) [143 999]
17 - Sorel (Sorel-Tracy, Saint-Joseph-de-Sorel, Sainte-Anne-de-Sorel, Sainte-Victoire-de-Sorel. Maybe Saint-Robert) [43 468]
18 - Victoriaville (Victoriaville, Saint-Christophe-d'Arthabaska, Saint-Albert) [50 122]
19 - Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts (Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts, Val-Morin, Val-David) [18 034]
20 - Saint-Sauveur (Saint-Sauveur, Piedmont, Morin-Heights) [17 467]
21 - Prévost (Prévost, Saint-Hippolyte, Sainte-Anne-du-Lac) [25 827]
21 - Mont-Tremblant (Mont-Tremblant, Lac-Supérieur, Saint-Faustin-Lac-Carré) [15 127]
22 - Lac-Mégantic (Lac-Mégantic, Nantes, Frontenac, peut-être Piopolis) [9 276]
23 - Chandler (Chandler, Grande-Rivière, Sainte-Thérèse-de-Gaspé) [11 788]
24 - Paspébiac (Paspébiac, New Carlisle, Hope) [5 062]
25 - Mont-Joli (Mont-Joli, Sainte-Flavie, Saint-Joseph-de-Lepage and maybe the small town of Price) [9 514]
26 - La Pocatière (La Pocatière and Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatière) [5 717]
27 - Québec (back with Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures, L'Ancienne-Lorette, adding Notre-Dame-des-Anges, and Lac-Delage) [578 117]
28 - Montréal (Refusion of the whole island, with bilingual boroughs guaranteed where needed. This whole un-merger thing made no sense and was total electoral bulls**t) [1 997 706]
29 - Mont-Saint-Bruno (Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville and Saint-Basile-le-Grand) [43 894]
30 - Valcartier (Saint-Gabriel-de-Valcartier and Shannon, with the military base in the middle) [8 954]
31 - Sainte-Catherine (Sainte-Catherine-de-la-Jacques-Cartier, Lac-Saint-Joseph, Fossambault-sur-le-Lac) [9 526]
32 - Saint-Raymond (Saint-Raymond and Lac-Sergent) [10 694]
33 - Waterloo (Waterloo, Warden and Shefford) [11 535]
34 - Cowansville (Cowansville, East Farnham, Brigham) [15 952]
35 - East Angus (East Angus, Westbury) [4 828]
36 - Windsor (Windsor, Val-Joli, Saint-François-Xavier-de-Brompton) [9 174]
37 - Maniwaki (Maniwaki, Déléage, Egan-Sud) [6 582]
38 - Donnacona--Cap-Santé (Donnacona, Cap-Santé) [10 505]
39 - Beaupré (Beaupré, Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupré, Saint-Joachim, Saint-Férréol-les-Neiges) [11 101]
etc.

It's probably going to raise some debates, but in any case, the municipalities in Québec are too numerous, and merging them where they seem to form a greater community wouldn't seem bad at first.

YannickTO · #15 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 2:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laceoflight

Pretty good list for Quebec. Municipalities in Quebec are pretty small in area. I would in fact merge every urban agglomeration where the urban fabric is continuous. I'd add some to your list here :

16 - Sainte-Thérèse (the former greater municipality of Sainte-Thérèse : Sainte-Thérèse, Blainville, Boisbriand, Rosemère, Bois-des-Filion, Lorraine)
17 - Sorel (Sorel-Tracy, Saint-Joseph-de-Sorel, Sainte-Anne-de-Sorel, Sainte-Victoire-de-Sorel. Maybe Saint-Robert)
18 - Victoriaville (Victoriaville, Saint-Christophe-d'Arthabaska, Saint-Albert)
19 - Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts (Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts, Val-Morin, Val-David)
20 - Saint-Sauveur (Saint-Sauveur, Piedmont, Morin-Heights)
21 - Prévost (Prévost, Saint-Hippolyte, Sainte-Anne-du-Lac)
22 - Lac-Mégantic (Lac-Mégantic, Nantes, Frontenac, peut-être Piopolis)
23 - Chandler (Chandler, Grande-Rivière, Sainte-Thérèse-de-Gaspé)
24 - Paspébiac (Paspébiac, New Carlisle, Hope)
25 - Mont-Joli (Mont-Joli, Sainte-Flavie, Saint-Joseph-de-Lepage and maybe the small town of Price)
26 - La Pocatière (La Pocatière and Sainte-Anne-de-la-Pocatière)
27 - Québec (back with Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures, L'Ancienne-Lorette, adding Notre-Dame-des-Anges, and Lac-Delage)
28 - Montréal (Refusion of the whole island, with bilingual boroughs guaranteed where needed. This whole un-merger thing made no sense and was total electoral bulls**t)
29 - Mont-Saint-Bruno (Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville and Saint-Basile-le-Grand)
30 - Valcartier (Saint-Gabriel-de-Valcartier and Shannon, with the military base in the middle)
31 - Sainte-Catherine (Sainte-Catherine-de-la-Jacques-Cartier, Lac-Saint-Joseph, Fossambault-sur-le-Lac)
32 - Saint-Raymond (Saint-Raymond and Lac-Sergent)
33 - Waterloo (Waterloo, Warden and Shefford)
34 - Cowansville (Cowansville, East Farnham, Brigham)
35 - East Angus (East Angus, Westbury)
36 - Windsor (Windsor, Val-Joli, Saint-François-Xavier-de-Brompton)
37 - Maniwaki (Maniwaki, Déléage, Egan-Sud)
etc.

It's probably going to raise some debates, but in any case, the municipalities in Québec are too numerous, and merging them where they seem to form a greater community wouldn't seem bad at first.

JUST AWESOME! I agree we need to go further into amalgamations of municipalities. I pretty much agree with all your suggestions.

Nice replies for other provinces too !!

Acajack · #16 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 2:47 PM**

The re-mergers of Montreal island and of Quebec City are no-brainers to me, though I doubt they'll happen.

While I was strongly against de-mergers when it was stupidly made into an Quebec-wide election issue, I can kinda see the logic of de-merging the easternmost part of Gatineau (Buckingham, Masson-Angers). à

But what I what I would do is merge the both of them with the neighbouring L'Ange-Gardien, into a new city of 35-40,000 out there.

Laceoflight · #17 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 2:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

But what I what I would do is merge the both of them with the neighbouring L'Ange-Gardien, into a new city of 35-40,000 out there.

Amen to that.

Laceoflight · #18 Posted **Jan 25, 2017, 1:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

The re-mergers of Montreal island and of Quebec City are no-brainers to me, though I doubt they'll happen.

Here's what I would envision for a re-unified Montreal island. A city of 2 011 778 inhabitants*, composed of 15 strong and relatively equal boroughs / arrondissements.

*All the population data is from Québec's Ministère des Affaires municipales et de l'Organisation du territoire 2017 population decree, for July 1, 2016.

The list of boroughs and populations could go as follows :

Acajack · #19 Posted **Jan 25, 2017, 2:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laceoflight

Here's what I would envision for a re-unified Montreal island. A city of 2 011 778 inhabitants*, composed of 15 strong and relatively equal boroughs / arrondissements.

*All the population data is from Québec's Ministère des Affaires municipales et de l'Organisation du territoire 2017 population decree, for July 1, 2016.

The list of boroughs and populations could go as follows :

Une île, une ville. Fantastique!

DrNest · #20 Posted **Jan 19, 2017, 2:57 PM**

I would merge Vancouver and Toronto. Take the mountains and generally milder climate of Vancouver and mix it with the skyscrapers, sports and music scene of Toronto and you'd have a great city for me.