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  #11121  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
Except that according to its CSA boundaries, IT IS (or getting very near to it) Why can't you include Baltimore in the CSA when Dallas includes Fort Worth? Anywhere else you'd like to move the goal posts? Washington is 6 kilometers further from Baltimore than Fort Worth is from Dallas according to Google Earth.
But they are two separate cities with their own distinct identity! Washington does not look or feel like a city of 10M, because it’s not! It’s just close to another separate big city!
Dallas /Fort Worth act like a single city, and are an MSA, Washington and Baltimore don’t, and are not an MSA! Baltimore is only included in the CSA, which is not the same as a MSA.
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Last edited by north 42; Apr 4, 2018 at 11:45 AM.
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  #11122  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 2:26 PM
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I agree that equating a CSA to one metropolitan area is dubious.
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  #11123  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by north 42 View Post
But they are two separate cities with their own distinct identity! Washington does not look or feel like a city of 10M, because it’s not! It’s just close to another separate big city!
Dallas /Fort Worth act like a single city, and are an MSA, Washington and Baltimore don’t, and are not an MSA! Baltimore is only included in the CSA, which is not the same as a MSA.
DC most definitely doesn't feel like a Chicago-sized city. (And not just because of the lack of skyscrapers.) It feels like Montreal at best - maybe even a wee bit smaller.
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  #11124  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 3:40 PM
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Likewise, Boston doesn't feel like a metro twice the size of Montreal but one the same size.
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  #11125  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 4:45 PM
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Likewise, Boston doesn't feel like a metro twice the size of Montreal but one the same size.
There’s 8.5 millions in metro Boston!?
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  #11126  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 4:51 PM
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There’s 8.5 millions in metro Boston!?
there is no way. Boston is great, but this is ludicrous.

Conurbations are a way of cheating. Heck, you could argue that New York City and Philadelphia (and everything in between) is a single urban area (some people actually try to make the case for the Calgary-Edmonton corridor, which is absurd)

More reasonable estimates are by Metro area:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population

13 Boston 4,774,321[3] 2015 United States
14 San Francisco–Oakland 4,656,132[3] 2015 United States
15 Phoenix 4,574,531[3] 2015 United States
16 Riverside-San Bernardino 4,489,159[3] 2015 United States
17 Monterrey 4,475,949[2] 2015 Mexico
18 Detroit 4,302,043[3] 2015 United States
19 Montreal 4,060,692[4] 2015 Canada

And that great metropolis of Riverside!! Must be the biggest place in North America that nobody has heard of.
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  #11127  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin Mtl View Post
There’s 8.5 millions in metro Boston!?
According to the US Census Bureau there were 8,233,270 in the Boston CSA in 2017. It basically includes the entire state of Rhode Island, half of Massachusetts, and a good portion of New Hampshire. The Boston MSA had 4,794,447 in 2016 so just a bit bigger than Montreal. Btw, I agree with MolsonExport, Boston is a metro of 4.8 million. The 8.2 million figure isn't representative.

Boston boundaries



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas
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Last edited by isaidso; Apr 4, 2018 at 5:03 PM.
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  #11128  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 4:54 PM
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Originally Posted by north 42 View Post
But they are two separate cities with their own distinct identity! Washington does not look or feel like a city of 10M, because it’s not! It’s just close to another separate big city!
Dallas /Fort Worth act like a single city, and are an MSA, Washington and Baltimore don’t, and are not an MSA! Baltimore is only included in the CSA, which is not the same as a MSA.
And not a single word you said matters one iota. The Washington DC/Baltimore CSA is nearly 10 million. Just because it doesn't "feel" (for all feelings are worth compared to facts) like it has ten million changes absolutely nothing. And neither does your Dallas/Ft. Worth area "act" like a single big city any more than DC/Baltimore. Tell that to the people of Fort Worth and see what they say. Fort Worth has a history and a downtown core as well. It's not a suburb and neither is Baltimore but then again, that's probably why I'm talking about the CSA and not the MSA.

Not to mention, how many cities of 10 million people have you been to? I've been to quite a few albeit mostly in Asia. I'm not sure there's any way to "feel" a city is bigger than another once you get past a couple million.

Lastly, if you want to say something, including exclamation marks conveys a certain hostility. If you don't want people to take it as hostility then stop including them on every sentence.
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  #11129  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
And not a single word you said matters one iota. The Washington DC/Baltimore CSA is nearly 10 million. Just because it doesn't "feel" (for all feelings are worth compared to facts) like it has ten million changes absolutely nothing. And neither does your Dallas/Ft. Worth area "act" like a single big city any more than DC/Baltimore. Tell that to the people of Fort Worth and see what they say. Fort Worth has a history and a downtown core as well. It's not a suburb and neither is Baltimore but then again, that's probably why I'm talking about the CSA and not the MSA.

Not to mention, how many cities of 10 million people have you been to? I've been to quite a few albeit mostly in Asia. I'm not sure there's any way to "feel" a city is bigger than another once you get past a couple million.

Lastly, if you want to say something, including exclamation marks conveys a certain hostility. If you don't want people to take it as hostility then stop including them on every sentence.
Ugh, whatever!!!
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  #11130  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 5:52 PM
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American CSAs are huge areas of land and the definitions used to create them are very generous. MSAs are more comparable to our CMAs.

I remember someone on here did a calculation of what our metros would look like if we used the CSA definition. They were huge. Kingston's and Ottawa's "metros" actually bordered each other!
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  #11131  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 5:58 PM
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I mean if Oshawa is included in the GTA and if Hamilton is increasingly considered part of one contiguous metropolitan region, I don't see why DC and Baltimore wouldn't be counted together.

Not sure about feelings of size, but DC, NOVA and Baltimore is really an awesome region. DC itself is beautiful.
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  #11132  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
there is no way. Boston is great, but this is ludicrous.

Conurbations are a way of cheating. Heck, you could argue that New York City and Philadelphia (and everything in between) is a single urban area (some people actually try to make the case for the Calgary-Edmonton corridor, which is absurd)

More reasonable estimates are by Metro area:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population

13 Boston 4,774,321[3] 2015 United States
14 San Francisco–Oakland 4,656,132[3] 2015 United States
15 Phoenix 4,574,531[3] 2015 United States
16 Riverside-San Bernardino 4,489,159[3] 2015 United States
17 Monterrey 4,475,949[2] 2015 Mexico
18 Detroit 4,302,043[3] 2015 United States
19 Montreal 4,060,692[4] 2015 Canada

And that great metropolis of Riverside!! Must be the biggest place in North America that nobody has heard of.
Hey Molson, that was me, a joke and absurd. IIRC, there was one other post that compared the geographical size of the Calgary Edmonton corridor to the Phoenix CSA, in jest.
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  #11133  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 7:52 PM
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^haha,

I didn't see your post on the matter. I am thinking about a once-prolific Calgary poster/booster that shares a name with the lead singer of Nickelback.
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  #11134  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
And not a single word you said matters one iota. The Washington DC/Baltimore CSA is nearly 10 million. Just because it doesn't "feel" (for all feelings are worth compared to facts) like it has ten million changes absolutely nothing. And neither does your Dallas/Ft. Worth area "act" like a single big city any more than DC/Baltimore. Tell that to the people of Fort Worth and see what they say. Fort Worth has a history and a downtown core as well. It's not a suburb and neither is Baltimore but then again, that's probably why I'm talking about the CSA and not the MSA.

Not to mention, how many cities of 10 million people have you been to? I've been to quite a few albeit mostly in Asia. I'm not sure there's any way to "feel" a city is bigger than another once you get past a couple million.

Lastly, if you want to say something, including exclamation marks conveys a certain hostility. If you don't want people to take it as hostility then stop including them on every sentence.
Well, CSAs are useful metrics for business types who want to know how many potential pairs of ears or eyeballs they can reach with their media, or how many people in the vicinity could be clients for the widgets they are selling, but they don't necessarily say much about how the city (or cities) that's at the heart of it will provide a satisfying urban experience.
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  #11135  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2018, 8:14 PM
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As for Asian cities, for fucking sure Tokyo, Shanghai, and Seoul feel a hell of a lot larger than Nagoya, Wuxi, and Busan.
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  #11136  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Likewise, Boston doesn't feel like a metro twice the size of Montreal but one the same size.
I brought up a similar thought on here before.

When metros hit a certain size, is there really that much of different feel between a 4m or 5m metro.Really, does a 3.0m metro simply have more subdivisions,exhurbs and Costcos then a 2.2 million metro?Sure Montreal is definitely more ramped up then Ottawa, but it's energy and core on a weekend doesn't feel much different then Toronto to me, and there's a 2.0 million population +/- difference between the two metros.
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  #11137  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 2:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
I brought up a similar thought on here before.

When metros hit a certain size, is there really that much of different feel between a 4m or 5m metro.Really, does a 3.0m metro simply have more subdivisions,exhurbs and Costcos then a 2.2 million metro?Sure Montreal is definitely more ramped up then Ottawa, but it's energy and core on a weekend doesn't feel much different then Toronto to me, and there's a 2.0 million population +/- difference between the two metros.
Population isn't irrelevant, but it's not the only thing affecting how big a city feels. Population and entertainment distribution, tourism and even just local habits all play a role. If we're talking about downtowns specifically, downtowns have varying degrees of importance in different cities, so one can feel significantly bigger than the other, even if populations are similar. Edmonton and Calgary are a good example of this.
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  #11138  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 2:49 PM
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In many cases these metro area figures reflect regional and national settlement patterns rather than the size of the anchor city.

Washington, DC is not a city of 10 million, although it may be a city located in a broadly interconnected settlement-area of 10 million people. Istanbul, however, really is a city of 10 million (or more), and you can feel it when you are there.

I know that we like to rank and to classify, but there is some room here for a degree of subjective interpretation. Otherwise we could wind up saying that Amsterdam is a city of 17 million (the total population of the Netherlands, which is very close in size to the Dallas CSA).
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  #11139  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 8:14 PM
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One could carry on the CSA discussion to its logical conclusion and talk about the Bangladesh metropolitan area with 162,951,560. It's population density is triple that of the Dallas CSA.
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  #11140  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 9:13 PM
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Immigration to Canada, by country of citizenship, 2017

India back on top, overtaking Philippines. Nigeria and Iraq are new entrants in the top 10.

India: 51,650
Philippines: 40,855
China: 30,280
Syria: 12,045
USA: 9,100
Pakistan: 7,655
France: 6,600
Nigeria: 5,460
UK: 5,295
Iraq: 4,740

Government of Canada
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...open-data.html
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