Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[SteelTown]

2015 Pan Am CEO to meet with Eisenberger

CHML
8/11/2010
http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/...spx?ID=1263752

The 2015 Pan Am Games committee plans to hold a special meeting to discuss Hamilton's west harbour stadium site.

CEO Ian Troop has issued a statement to CHML News.

The stadium debate has been intense and of vital importance to the city of Hamilton. We thank Mayor Eisenberger, Council and city staff for shepherding yesterday’s decision-making in respect of our critical Games-planning timeline.

We appreciate Council’s consideration and the City’s proposal to us. Recognizing the level of interest in Hamilton’s role, we are fast-tracking the venue review uniquely for the stadium.

My first step has been to contact Mayor Eisenberger, and we are meeting this week. Our objective will be to fully understand the City’s proposition. Once we’ve had these discussions, I will request a special meeting of the Toronto 2015 Board of Directors to discuss the venue review and to present a recommendation. We’ll hope to have this convened within two weeks of our meeting with the City.

If the Board approves the recommendation, we then will seek final approval by the Games funding partners – the Federal and Provincial governments.

As we’ve consistently said, Toronto 2015 can only responsibly endorse a proposition that supports our mandate to deliver a Games that is on time, on budget and provides a meaningful and sustainable sport and community legacy. We will work diligently with the City to reach a conclusion that minimizes any risks and maintains the integrity of our Games.

Once again, we thank the City for the time and effort all have committed.

[dennis1]

TiCats could also fold.

[SteelTown]

CFL would oppose to fold the Ti Cats. You'd be left with three Eastern teams and five Western teams. That would unbalance the Eastern and Western conference and do serious damage to the CFL.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

But at what cost?

Council is now pulling out all the stops in a desperate bid to keep the Ticats from leaving, and this needss to be done within 24 hours. What will it cost to keep them here? From all accounts it is already too late. Foxcroft has said in an interview the landing spot has already been arranged, and as a Hamilton businessman he is sickened by the loss.

Without the Ticats, the stadium is financially unviable. It likely won't even be built as financial viability is a precondition for Hostco. Even if it does, Hamilton will have its very own version of Montreal's "Big Owe". Council has just voted for a money pit.

We'll be paying annually for years on a white elephant added to our HECFI collection. If it gets built, and as things stand now it won't be built. Even if the Ticats stay, Hamilton will be paying out to keep them here. FInancially this is a lose-lose situation.

And all for what? A downtown stadium eating up land. A massive empty hulk where there could be apartment condos and businesses.

This may be a voctory for WH proponents, but they have no idea what their 'prize' is. But we'll be paying for it off for decades to come. Meantime, Hamilton slips further into obscurity. Well done!

Whatever the cost, it is less than an east mountain stadium. Council saw the figures for the east mountain, and not one of them stood up to argue for that case. There were no champions for the east mountain. There was too much uncertainty, and too many millions of city dollars at risk. Just like the Ticats feel they can't support the west harbour, nobody on council can support the mountain. It just isn't worth the risk.

A defeat of the East Mountain proposal is a victory, no matter what happens after this.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

A defeat of the East Mountain proposal is a victory, no matter what happens after this.

Agree 100%

My biggest concern with this whole thing was the possibility of a stadium being built in the East Mountain. Now I can breathe easier knowing that it wont happen. Everything else at this point isn't as threatening in my opinion.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

Whatever the cost, it is less than an east mountain stadium. Council saw the figures for the east mountain, and not one of them stood up to argue for that case. There were no champions for the east mountain. There was too much uncertainty, and too many millions of city dollars at risk. Just like the Ticats feel they can't support the west harbour, nobody on council can support the mountain. It just isn't worth the risk.

A defeat of the East Mountain proposal is a victory, no matter what happens after this.

Is it really? If additional upfront capital costs we realized, they could be covered by obtaining additional federal and provincial funding. Ongoing operational shortfalls at the WH site are soley the city's burden.

Of course there was uncertainty about the east mountain location, the site study was rushed and incomplete. Cost comparisons were not fully baselined.

This all comes back to the same thing: The city simply did not perform due diligence by performing a detailed CBA of several site options a year ago.

[Anders Knudsen]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Is it really? If additional upfront capital costs we realized, they could be covered by obtaining additional federal and provincial funding. Ongoing operational shortfalls at the WH site are soley the city's burden.

5 million a year in lost revenue from the mountain vs 1.8 million a year in operating costs at the harbour, which is the same as we spend on Ivor Wynne right now.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

This is blatantly not true. MOST CFL teams make money. (probably4-6 out of the eight, depending on the year). The only ones consistently losing larger sums of money are the two Southern Ontario franchises.

The only team in the league that made money last year was Saskatchewan. That was widely reported this past winter.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen

5 million a year in lost revenue from the mountain vs 1.8 million a year in operating costs at the harbour, which is the same as we spend on Ivor Wynne right now.

Didn't they also say that the $1.8 mil was the operating costs without the Ticats as a tenant.

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

CFL would oppose to fold the Ti Cats. You'd be left with three Eastern teams and five Western teams. That would unbalance the Eastern and Western conference and do serious damage to the CFL.

Like Cohon is that smart....

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

If the Ti Cats would fund that much I would also approve a stadium at Confederation Park as well.

I wouldn't. Confederation Park is a park. We couldn't put it down there without tearing down everything that's there, from the mini-putt to the water slides. And isn't that Hamilton Conservation Authority land? Good luck convincing them.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen

5 million a year in lost revenue from the mountain vs 1.8 million a year in operating costs at the harbour, which is the same as we spend on Ivor Wynne right now.

That $5 mil is an estimate in potential lost tax revenue under the assumption that the entire EM site has the potential to be fully developed as prestige employment lands, and that the site instead is developed strictly as a stadium location. Lets check back in a decade to see how many prestige businesses have located there.

And there is a huge difference between foregoing potential future tax revenue and incurring actual annual operational losses.

Regardless, this is a straw man argument. None of this changes the fact that the city failed to perform due diligence by identifying several potential site options and conducting a detailed cost benefit analysis of those sites a year ago. Saying WH is better because EM was worse than it does not strengthen WH's viability, it just masks its inadequacies. As a result, we are choosing the least-worse option rather than objectively sourcing the best possible location.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I wouldn't. Confederation Park is a park. We couldn't put it down there without tearing down everything that's there, from the mini-putt to the water slides.

Confederation Park is a 230-acre park. A stadium would have a 20 acre footprint, so let's not overstate the potential impact so dramatically.

[realcity]

I say it's Friday when PanAm will announce that they are not building a stadium at WH. Then the following week it will be announced that the stadium is being built in Don Mills or North York and it will be the new Argos home.

The Cats will playout this year and 2011 and move for 2012. Which will also be the last season for the Bulldogs in Hamilton before they move to a Montreal suburb, Laval or something.

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

Didn't they also say that the $1.8 mil was the operating costs without the Ticats as a tenant.

I believe so... And I think it was still losing money, even with the Ti-Cats.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by realcity

I say it's Friday when PanAm will announce that they are not building a stadium at WH. Then the following week it will be announced that the stadium is being built in Don Mills or North York and it will be the new Argos home.

The Cats will playout this year and 2011 and move for 2012. Which will also be the last season for the Bulldogs in Hamilton before they move to a Montreal suburb, Laval or something.

Young could always try to sell the team. Isn't that an option for him?

After this debacle, it almost seems like the fans would shell out to purchase the team and run it like the Packers.

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Confederation Park is a 230-acre park. A stadium would have a 20 acre footprint, so let's not overstate the potential impact so dramatically.

But the Ti-Cats want parking (40 - 60 acres) plus an "entertainment precinct" (another 40 acres). When you add all that up, there's not much left for a park.

And, as I said, I doubt the HCA would approve a stadium.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

But the Ti-Cats want parking (40 - 60 acres) plus an "entertainment precinct" (another 40 acres). When you add all that up, there's not much left for a park.

And, as I said, I doubt the HCA would approve a stadium.

We don't know what the Ticats want for Confederation Park. All we know is what they wanted for EM site.

This discussion is purely academic now anyway. The city has made their decision and the Ticats are packing up shop.

[markbarbera]

Ticats owner: ‘I’m not optimistic’
Mark Masters
National Post
August 11, 2010 – 1:18 pm

There is only one way Hamilton Tiger-Cats owner Bob Young can see his team reopening discussions with the city of Hamilton over where a new stadium should be built.

“I heard a proposal … That if we brought in a properly trained crisis-management person, perhaps hired by the province or [the Toronto 2015 Pan-Am Games organizing committee] to sit down with both parties and try to educate the city and get the city to listen to what we’ve been trying to tell them … There’s a scenario there,” Young told Toronto’s Fan 590 radio station.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he wants to reengage Young and the Ticats in the stadium discussion.

But, in his first public statements since Tuesday night’s city council meeting, Young said he didn’t think any further talks would accomplish anything.

“If the city backed off this desire to put a stadium in the West Harbour and instead worked with the best developers in the country to come up with sort of a win win – do something in the West Harbour that makes sense for a residential neighbourhood that’s a long way to highway access and work with us to find some location in Hamilton that you can build a viable stadium on – then we’d be thrilled to engage in those discussions.

“But, their fixation on building a stadium at the one location in Hamilton that a stadium cannot work in is a major disappointment to me.”

Young reiterated his position that the Ticats will never play in the West Harbour spot. City council reaffirmed their support for the West Harbour site in a vote during Tuesday’s meeting.

“I don’t know what happens next to be honest, because we can’t, as a business, continue to lose millions of dollars a year and the proposal from the city is to build something similar to Ivor Wynne when we have the opportunity to build something much better than Ivor Wynne.”

When asked whether he would consider selling the Ticats rather than moving them from Hamilton, the city where he grew up, Young said he doubted it would be possible to find a buyer interested in acquiring a business guaranteed to lose money.

“I’m looking forward to someone coming up with a solution, because the way this is playing out is very scary for the future of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats.”

During an interview on the Fan 590 on Tuesday Ron Foxcroft, a Hamilton businessman and Young’s friend, said the team already had a new city lined up if they have to move.

Young said that is not true, but he is hoping possible suitors will start coming forward with proposals.

When asked about his general feelings regarding efforts to keep the Ticats in Hamilton Young offered, “I’m not optimistic, in fact I’m pessimistic.”

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2010/...#ixzz0wJuUohhV

[realcity]

^ there's one prediction come true.

Now just the announcement of PanAm Stadium being built near a Toronto hiway.

Thanks a lot Fred, now this city will totally suck and instead of 75% suck.