Vancouver and the Underground Pedestrian System

[vansky]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Some of the most vibrant cities in the World have extensive underground walking networks, and 10x the population.

When Vancouver has 8 million people living here, and the above ground space is taken up.... as in, when there is actually a demand for it.

I am loving this new captain obvious gig!

u know we wont see it since the world will end in 2012.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by vansky

u know we wont see it since the world will end in 2012.

Well, fingers crossed!

[vansky]

god might be laughing at this, who said the world will end in 2012, pathetic humans, it's the only specie with the imagination to end its own destiny...

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

I can't understand the fear and loathing that the mere mention of one underground walking path creates. As if a connector between Robson Square and the Canada Line would suck all of the energy out of downtown.

As if!

Some of the most vibrant cities in the world have extensive underground walking networks, and the pedestrian experience at street level is hardly impacted. It's all about giving people CHOICE, as opposed to social engineering.

Thanks Rusty! ! Nice to see someone here has a mind that can keep things in perspective.

(I was talking about ONE connector to Robson Square and nothing more, for the information of all the others who started imagining megamalls, dead streets and so forth.)

[Hot Rod]

I totally think Vancouver City Center station should have an entrance into Robson Square.

Can you IMAGINE the urban vibe it would have if this existed - now during the Olympics??? We would have thousands of people pouring into Robson Square (and nearby retail) right from SkyTrain. ...

Also, people are forgetting that Vancouver's downtown is already very dense enough and has reached critical mass such that some underground connections would work without killing the streets.

Again - we're only talking about one extension and City Center should have had a Robson exit all along. I hope there are funds for this or it could be part of the Sears building reconstruction. ...

The benefits of a Robson Square subway exit are tremendous!

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

I totally think Vancouver City Center station should have an entrance into Robson Square.

Can you IMAGINE the urban vibe it would have if this existed - now during the Olympics??? We would have thousands of people pouring into Robson Square (and nearby retail) right from SkyTrain. ...

Also, people are forgetting that Vancouver's downtown is already very dense enough and has reached critical mass such that some underground connections would work without killing the streets.

Again - we're only talking about one extension and City Center should have had a Robson exit all along. I hope there are funds for this or it could be part of the Sears building reconstruction. ...

The benefits of a Robson Square subway exit are tremendous!

So you're saying the Urban Vibe we're seeing this week is being squelched because we have to exit the SkyTrain on Granville @ Georgia, mingle with the crowds on Granville Mall while walking a block to Robson Street (enjoying the Chinese New Year displays en route), joining the partiers on Robson Street celebrating Canada winning another medal, and walking a short block to Robson Square to join the crowds at the skating rink, or watch the people screaming down the ZIPline, or the concert & fireworks show before watching Pam and Bill do their newscast from the street-level booth at HMV?

A SkyTrain exit directly to Robson Street, or an underground path from Pacific Centre to Robson Square would improve this how, exactly?

[Zassk]

It seems to me that the Sears parkade ramps are an obstacle, so the underground passage would have to be built under the street/sidewalk, as a covered trench, going around the north side of Sears. The cost vs benefit ratio is dubious.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

seattle has a covered street

can't find a good pic of it since i don't know what they call it...


source: stockphotography.co.uk

and for those who want awnings - get an umbrella!

Umbrellas only work when you have a free hand to hold it. Dunno about you, but when I'm shopping I have things I have purchased in my hands. Or sometimes I'll have a crèpe or a Japadog.

[trofirhen]

Could I ask if that is your concept of a Robson Square connector? How would it work, and where would it be placed? Also, are you just thinking of people crossing the street, only under glass, or is there a "grade seperated" pedestrian connection?

(That one's in Seattle, non?)

[Yume-sama]

I'll usually just have two JapaDog Awnings keep my hot dog dry

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I'll usually just have two JapaDog Awnings keep my hot dog dry

Glad you enjoy your Japadogs, Yume ......... but how does all this relate to the underground pedestrian system? Please .........

[Yume-sama]

I am keeping the conversation going. twoneurons mentioned it first!

An underground pedestrian system would save them, too

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It seems to me that the Sears parkade ramps are an obstacle, so the underground passage would have to be built under the street/sidewalk, as a covered trench, going around the north side of Sears. The cost vs benefit ratio is dubious.

Don't forget the *secret* Truck service access ramp that starts at Sephora - Four Seasons and comes out behind the courthouse.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...83.85,,0,10.98

I think this takes up most of the width of Howe street, and runs for 4 blocks under the street. Since it was built for truck access it is also deeper than a normal underground access road for cars, so it would be quite effective at blocking an easy east-west construction under Robson @ Howe

Drivers usually use this entrance to get to the Pacific Centre parkade under the 4 seasons. Truck drivers take the 'other' turn at the bottom of the ramp to get to the shipping/receiving areas for Pacific Centre, Robson Square, and the courthouse.

I've even noticed the Sherriffs truck use that ramp when bringing prisoners for their court dates.

[racc]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

I totally think Vancouver City Center station should have an entrance into Robson Square.

Can you IMAGINE the urban vibe it would have if this existed - now during the Olympics??? We would have thousands of people pouring into Robson Square (and nearby retail) right from SkyTrain. ...

Also, people are forgetting that Vancouver's downtown is already very dense enough and has reached critical mass such that some underground connections would work without killing the streets.

Again - we're only talking about one extension and City Center should have had a Robson exit all along. I hope there are funds for this or it could be part of the Sears building reconstruction. ...

The benefits of a Robson Square subway exit are tremendous!

While I'm not a big fan of an underground ped network, I do think Robson Square would make a good entrance to the Canada Line. The square was originally designed to be an entrance to a subway down Thurlow Street. This entrance would allow the city to keep buses off Granville Mall while still retaining good access to rapid transit from buses on Howe Street.

It could be really easy to build. The Pacific Centre parkade is already under Howe Street and the lower level of the mall might be as well.. It might be just a matter of knocking out a wall and making it a nice place to walk through.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Don't forget the *secret* Truck service access ramp that starts at Sephora - Four Seasons and comes out behind the courthouse.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...83.85,,0,10.98

I think this takes up most of the width of Howe street, and runs for 4 blocks under the street. Since it was built for truck access it is also deeper than a normal underground access road for cars, so it would be quite effective at blocking an easy east-west construction under Robson @ Howe

Drivers usually use this entrance to get to the Pacific Centre parkade under the 4 seasons. Truck drivers take the 'other' turn at the bottom of the ramp to get to the shipping/receiving areas for Pacific Centre, Robson Square, and the courthouse.

I've even noticed the Sherriffs truck use that ramp when bringing prisoners for their court dates.

It would seem that any form of Robson Square - City Centre underground connection is nixed. Rather disappointing, except for the folks who fear that such a tunnel would suck all of the street life out of the area.

You win some, you lose some.

[urbandreamer]

^Be careful what you wish for. Montreal's version of a glass-covered streetscape isn't very successful, but that could be due to the general demographics of the area (working class poor) and the competition from large indoor and underground malls.

I present you, the grand Plaza St Hubert. It runs for four long blocks.

I used to rely on Mtl's underground city for getting groceries, or shopping, or getting up to mcgill from my loft in Old Montreal in the winter or on crappy rainy days. It's ok, and is quite glamorous in parts (think very chic French Canadian women sitting at cafes, with Simons, Holts etc bags in tow.)

Toronto's PATH in comparison is more like a zoo, with endless rows of repetitious mall fare--chain stores, restaurants etc. It's said that during office hours the PATH is one of the largest cities in Canada--over 200,000 people down there iirc. I get very claustrophobic down in the PATH--ugh! I'd rather freeze outside than deal with badly dressed Torontonians.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

^Be careful what you wish for. Montreal's version of a glass-covered streetscape isn't very successful, but that could be due to the general demographics of the area (working class poor) and the competition from large indoor and underground malls.

I present you, the grand Plaza St Hubert. It runs for four long blocks.

I used to rely on Mtl's underground city for getting groceries, or shopping, or getting up to mcgill from my loft in Old Montreal in the winter or on crappy rainy days. It's ok, and is quite glamorous in parts (think very chic French Canadian women sitting at cafes, with Simons, Holts etc bags in tow.)

Toronto's PATH in comparison is more like a zoo, with endless rows of repetitious mall fare--chain stores, restaurants etc. It's said that during office hours the PATH is one of the largest cities in Canada--over 200,000 people down there iirc. I get very claustrophobic down in the PATH--ugh! I'd rather freeze outside than deal with badly dressed Torontonians.

Interesting, thanks. I was just thinking of a few vital connectors, rather than a vast system like Toronto's PATH. Just, for example, an underground connection from City Centre Station to Robson Square, and a connection between Millenium and Expo Lines at City Centre, or nearby.

Here in Vancuver, we already have a repectable, if not huge, indoor mall system, and I wasn't thinking of anything mega-scale. I was thinking more of connection points for convenience.

To me, anything major indoor could be like the Westlake Center in Seattle, or the Crystal Court in Minneapolis: above ground but with a bright, elegant atmosphere, and a choice of restaurants and stores - WITHOUT RESEMBLING ANOTHER SUBURBAN SHOPPING MALL PLANTED DOWNTOWN.

[urbandreamer]

Toronto's system is intentionally designed to be frustrating to get around--you're supposed to give up, then spend some money in a hurry.

I've been in Vancouver's version of underground city--iirc, you can walk from Pender to West Georgia underground, from a sky train station etc. Think of it as a hamlet compared to Toronto's PATH "city."

[SpongeG]

theres nothing in robson square woth conencting too

if you can't walk throuigh sears and cross one friggin corner thats pretty sad

[urbandreamer]

Read all about PATH here: http://www.toronto.ca/path/