Anyone else think Vancouver is a car-heavy city?

[jlousa]

I've always found Salt and Judas Goat reasonably priced. If Salient is in fact redeveloping the Boulder Hotel and Pig and Whistle then Blood Alley would really spruce up. Just have to fix the problem just to the west.

Doesn't the fact we have among the cheapest parking of the Big 6 metros kinda run counter to us being car heavy. If we were car heavy our parking rates would surely reflect that.

[agrant]

Originally Posted by Zegby

Van's suburbs are more car oriented than most, probably unintentionally, because of the disturbing lack of sidewalks. And the sidewalks that DO exist, sometimes aren't even concrete, they're asphalt. Its a disgrace.

Yup. One strip mall after the other with a large shopping mall or two. That's all our suburbs really are - very car oriented with all that free and plentiful parking. The only exceptions being the small parts that were the original town. What a great life. You sit in your huge house, with your two car garage... just a five minute drive to the local KFC and Rogers. No wonder people are so fat out there.

No, wait. You don't even need to spend the energy to get into your car to goto Rogers. You can just use your Video On Demand now.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I've always found Salt and Judas Goat reasonably priced. If Salient is in fact redeveloping the Boulder Hotel and Pig and Whistle then Blood Alley would really spruce up. Just have to fix the problem just to the west.

Doesn't the fact we have among the cheapest parking of the Big 6 metros kinda run counter to us being car heavy. If we were car heavy our parking rates would surely reflect that.

$15 for 3 pieces of cheese! seriously thats reasonable?

we had 3 pieces of cheese, 3 paper thin slices of meat which maybe stacked were an inch with some crackers - that was $30 by the time you added the wine the bill was over $130 we had to go get real food afterwards

[Metro-One]

Yeah that is terrible. We need the type of pedestrian alleys like they have in Japan and Europe, where you can get good, cheep night market style food and funky attractions. Good lighting is a must in such alleys for nighttime (and again, fun signage, weather it be Asian or European styling), canopies also really help make them year round in a city such as Vancouver (possibly make it so they can be removed during the summer months). I love the market alleys in the old world where you can find cheep beer, cheep food and funky clothing / goods shops late into the night under a welcoming neon / LED glow.

In order for it to work, most of the pedestrian areas should have their goods and prices geared towards the masses instead of the wealthy yuppies. Of course a few sections of such pedestrian areas should be geared towards higher quality goods and higher prices, but again this should be the exception, not the rule.

To much of Vancouver is geared towards making it a resort city for the wealthy, this is its main problem in its generally otherwise progressive march towards sustainable urbanity.

[entheosfog]

Originally Posted by awvan

edit: Totally agree with whoever said that the city has total disregard for how roadworks cause disruption, and to those who mentioned the building of new car dealerships, most of those are re-locations. The only new one I know of built in the last little while is BMW Langley. The relocations (off Main in Vancouver, Dueck off No. 3 road, handful off of Marine Dr in NVan) are a good thing because the old land has or will be re-purposed for much higher density.

Terminal avenue has a few car dealerships with a new one on the way on the 500 block apparently. Most of that stretch of road wouldn't be out of place in any suburb in North America...

I don't think Vancouver is a car-heavy city per se, but like what was said earlier, I think Vancouver proper fares better than many other North American cities. I own a car but i like the fact I can walk pretty much anywhere in Van if I wanted to due to the 'relentless' grid system and the lack of roads that have speed limits that exceed 50km/hr. I think UBC is the only place in Van proper where there's a higher speed limit. It's nice having a car, but I hardly use it and it's nice not to rely on it.

This was said earlier, but the fact that Vancouver hasn't expanded its road network much (overpasses, widening of streets, turn lanes, Lion's Gate Bridge etc etc) speaks volumes of the priorities it has, which is good and bad. Of course roads are maintained but i find it interesting the minute you drive into Burnaby, for example, you know you're in Burnaby because of the wider roads and left and right turn lanes. I drive for a living in this city and it can get frustrating but half the battle is knowing what roads to use and which to avoid and for the most part, it's not that bad within Vancouver. The bridges around the Lower Mainland are a completely different story, however.

[SpongeG]

yeah one adapts in vancouver if i have to make a left i usually drive a block further and make a right and than back track to get on the street i want

[jlousa]

Umm Salt isn't meant to be a restaurant where you come in and eat a meal, it's meant to have a taster before you head to a full restaurant and eat a meal there. And just to clarify you wouldn't have had only 3 pieces of cheese on your plate, you would've chosen 3 different types of cheeses, you would've received multiple slices of each type.
The Salient projects that just completed to the east of Judas Goat also open up onto Blood Alley, believe only one of those spaces has been occupied so far but the project will add even more life onto blood alley.

Another thing to keep in mind about Vancouver's car heavyness or lack of, is the cap on parking spaces downtown which has set at 35K forever. It would be interesting to see how that compares to similar sized cities.

[delboy]

Ok my two cents. Vancouver proper is a very walkable city and is a real pleasure to wander around. I only use my car if I'm heading out of town, otherwise I use tranist and my feet. And for those that have some romantic notion that Europe is some kind of pedestrain Utopia are seriously misguided. While there are areas of Europe that are more ped freindly, the love affair with the auto is not only a North American trait, it simply comes down to the fact that many north american cities evolved in the auto era.

The burbs is a whole other story and is best considered a failed social experiement, most of Metro Vancouver is horrific.

We are seeing a trend back to our roots. Port Moody has developed that village thing and similar developments, focused around transit and accessability are popping up.

So to answer the original question, no I don't think Vancouver proper is overly car centric, but there's room for improvement.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Umm Salt isn't meant to be a restaurant where you come in and eat a meal, it's meant to have a taster before you head to a full restaurant and eat a meal there. And just to clarify you wouldn't have had only 3 pieces of cheese on your plate, you would've chosen 3 different types of cheeses, you would've received multiple slices of each type.
The Salient projects that just completed to the east of Judas Goat also open up onto Blood Alley, believe only one of those spaces has been occupied so far but the project will add even more life onto blood alley.

Another thing to keep in mind about Vancouver's car heavyness or lack of, is the cap on parking spaces downtown which has set at 35K forever. It would be interesting to see how that compares to similar sized cities.

salt and the other one are meant to be traditional spanish tapas where it is common to wander from place to place enjoying nibbles at various eateries, much like a pub crawl but with nosh.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i hate drivers who do that red light thing - thats mostly a vancouver thing though - since most of the suburbs have left turn signals - vancouver has been getting rid of them - i think to piss of drivers but it doesn;t work only made it worse

Just wondering where in Vancouver left turn signals have been removed. Can you give any examples?

Originally Posted by jlousa

I agree we must be car-heavy we didn't even get a mention in Miketoronto's Canadian Transit Systems thread.

I do believe Vancouver could use a pedestrian advisory committee, seeing how we have advisory committee for a lot more trivial groups. But I think calling Vancouver car-heavy is just a tad absurd considering we haven't added any car infrastructure in most of our forumers lifetimes.

I noticed that as well. Then again I've seen him post in the past about how he feels Vancouver isn't anything special. So he will act like it doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by entheosfog

Terminal avenue has a few car dealerships with a new one on the way on the 500 block apparently. Most of that stretch of road wouldn't be out of place in any suburb in North America...

I don't think Vancouver is a car-heavy city per se, but like what was said earlier, I think Vancouver proper fares better than many other North American cities. I own a car but i like the fact I can walk pretty much anywhere in Van if I wanted to due to the 'relentless' grid system and the lack of roads that have speed limits that exceed 50km/hr. I think UBC is the only place in Van proper where there's a higher speed limit. It's nice having a car, but I hardly use it and it's nice not to rely on it.

This was said earlier, but the fact that Vancouver hasn't expanded its road network much (overpasses, widening of streets, turn lanes, Lion's Gate Bridge etc etc) speaks volumes of the priorities it has, which is good and bad. Of course roads are maintained but i find it interesting the minute you drive into Burnaby, for example, you know you're in Burnaby because of the wider roads and left and right turn lanes. I drive for a living in this city and it can get frustrating but half the battle is knowing what roads to use and which to avoid and for the most part, it's not that bad within Vancouver. The bridges around the Lower Mainland are a completely different story, however.

They have been adding left turn bays at select intersections over the past 20-30 years. But a lot of that has to to with improving the safety of those intersections and not so much reducing congestion at those intersections. Although adding a left turn bay does help the congestion.

One problem with the CoV. Is that most of the roads and their width was built before the automobile was popular. That is why routes like Knight, Oak and Granville. In the past were mostly just 3 lanes with no left turn bays. The roads weren't build wide enough at the beginning to incorporate a left turn bay. Of course that has slowly changed. But each time it has required the city to purchase land from surronding property owners. Those are 3 examples but Hastings, Kingsway, Broadway are all examples of the same thing happening. As well as other streets.

In fact Marine drive is an example of a street laid out. After the automobile started to get more popular. Thus why you see far more left turn bays along that route.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by cabotp

They have been adding left turn bays at select intersections over the past 20-30 years. But a lot of that has to to with improving the safety of those intersections and not so much reducing congestion at those intersections. Although adding a left turn bay does help the congestion.

Interestingly, the City recently removed two left turn bays on Pacific and Davie. Not sure why, but it is part of the "improvements" which included that bizarre mid road sidewalk on Pacific between Davie and Drake.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by IanS

Interestingly, the City recently removed two left turn bays on Pacific and Davie. Not sure why, but it is part of the "improvements" which included that bizarre mid road sidewalk on Pacific between Davie and Drake.

I was just going to mention this one, near where I live. Horrible decision. The expanded medians make left turns on to Pacific from Davie a bit of a nightmare too, like a big game of chicken with people opposite you making a left as well.

I think this might be for a future Streetcar line, but it doesn't really look wide enough for that, plus there are left turn lanes 2 blocks down for Homer St (way less traffic) as part of the Pacific re-build.

Makes no sense...

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Umm Salt isn't meant to be a restaurant where you come in and eat a meal, it's meant to have a taster before you head to a full restaurant and eat a meal there. And just to clarify you wouldn't have had only 3 pieces of cheese on your plate, you would've chosen 3 different types of cheeses, you would've received multiple slices of each type.
The Salient projects that just completed to the east of Judas Goat also open up onto Blood Alley, believe only one of those spaces has been occupied so far but the project will add even more life onto blood alley.

Another thing to keep in mind about Vancouver's car heavyness or lack of, is the cap on parking spaces downtown which has set at 35K forever. It would be interesting to see how that compares to similar sized cities.

um no we got 3 slices of cheese very small slices of cheese and there were 3 of us sharing - there were 3 types and only one small slice of each with about half a dozen almonds and some other teaspoons of sides

they have a lunch menu which we just missed - the woman beside us had a great looking sandwich and a soup which was about $8 apparently much better deal than the rip off cheese we got for $15

we certainly expected more for that kind of money

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Just wondering where in Vancouver left turn signals have been removed. Can you give any examples?

pretty much everywhere - at cambie and 12th is for sure one - facing south wanting to turn east you get one green light for all 3 lanes and no special left turn - you used to get a special left turn light - now you're lucky if 3 cars can turn left

the turning lanes are there but there is no left turn light like there used to be

there still are some further out like granville and 71st - but seems the closer you get to downtown its just a general green light and you turn if you can

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

pretty much everywhere - at cambie and 12th is for sure one - facing south wanting to turn east you get one green light for all 3 lanes and no special left turn - you used to get a special left turn light - now you're lucky if 3 cars can turn left

the turning lanes are there but there is no left turn light like there used to be

there still are some further out like granville and 71st - but seems the closer you get to downtown its just a general green light and you turn if you can

I assume in the case of Cambie and 12th this change happened after the construction of the Canada Line. Maybe they want to see if anyone will notice.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Not compared to most other Canadian (and American) cities.

Having Granville St. closed to traffic has been nice, though, after the Olympics when the crowds dissipated it became kind of pointless to have it closed all day every day.

I could see on weekends, etc. it would be nice. When it does re-open I wonder how many people will forget and be run over

I'm fairly confident the city will find excuses to close roads periodically for extended periods of time, in the future.

Ummm, closed to TRANSIT, pal.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

pretty much everywhere - at cambie and 12th is for sure one - facing south wanting to turn east you get one green light for all 3 lanes and no special left turn - you used to get a special left turn light - now you're lucky if 3 cars can turn left

the turning lanes are there but there is no left turn light like there used to be...

That's so Gregor the Green can look out his window (from his shiny expensive new office) and feel like he's doing his part to slay the evil automobile.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I was just going to mention this one, near where I live. Horrible decision. The expanded medians make left turns on to Pacific from Davie a bit of a nightmare too, like a big game of chicken with people opposite you making a left as well.

I think this might be for a future Streetcar line, but it doesn't really look wide enough for that, plus there are left turn lanes 2 blocks down for Homer St (way less traffic) as part of the Pacific re-build.

Makes no sense...

Could you please tell me where to find info about the Pacific rebuild? It sounds interesting. Love to see a rendering / diagram. Thanks

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by entheosfog

Most of that stretch of road wouldn't be out of place in any suburb in North America...


This was said earlier, but the fact that Vancouver hasn't expanded its road network much (overpasses, widening of streets, turn lanes, Lion's Gate Bridge etc etc) speaks volumes of the priorities it has, which is good and bad. Of course roads are maintained but i find it interesting the minute you drive into Burnaby, for example, you know you're in Burnaby because of the wider roads and left and right turn lanes. I drive for a living in this city and it can get frustrating but half the battle is knowing what roads to use and which to avoid and for the most part, it's not that bad within Vancouver. The bridges around the Lower Mainland are a completely different story, however.

Could I ask you to elaborate on this? It's interesting. Thanks

[Lee_Haber8]

To address the original title of the thread, I think Vancouver very much still has a car first mentality mainly because of the relatively late arrival of rapid transit and high-density city planning. Montreal, where I live for instance, has had a metro system since 1967; Vancouver's has only been around since 1986. With many long-existing dense neighbourhoods well served by transit, you get a sense most Montrealers know what it's like to live without a car and that is reflected in the attitude especially when it comes to making improvements that take space away from cars. I think that with time, more dense neighbourhoods and more mass-transit, a car-less mentality will mature in Vancouver.