Palm Trees of Canada

[Centropolis]

Yeah it's the bush type palms that are generally grown north of the North Carolina state line or Virginia Beach whatever if we are talking about eastern North America. I did see photos of some palm fanatic in Montreal who had everything bundled up and heated. You have to be obsessed at that point.

[Toronto6A6B]

Yes, I saw the video of that person in Montreal Canada too. I think it will be too much work for me.

I am hoping to see Windmill palms survive outdoors in zone 6b7a first, 20 foot tall will look great, plant them in parks in Niagara Falls/St Catharines/Windsor SW Ontario.

I am a zone pusher, so I think half a zone (from 7a to 6b) might be ok to grow Windmill palms.

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by someone123

Do you mean they should overwinter a 10 or 15 foot windmill palm in Ontario? I think they have to be "hardy" specimens grown with exposure to colder temperatures in order to survive, and I don't think they ever reach that size in colder areas.

As RyanNS said there are windmill palms that grow in milder parts of Nova Scotia and I have seen pictures from Massachusetts, Rhode Island, etc. They've all been little shrub-like bundles of palm leaves though, not tree-sized plants.

The zone maps are definitely not that accurate and don't reflect microclimates.

Yes, I like those seen in Vancouver, 10-20 foot tall Windmill palms, overwinter in SW Ontario.

Someone in this thread posted pictures of their banana palms in their yard in Niagara region.

After all research plus the outdoor banana palms in the Niagara region, I think Windmill palms stands a chance to survive in SW Ontario (6b7a zones). But the Niagara Parks Commission must take the first step to grow them outdoors (they have 2 indoor Windmill palms in their green house in Niagara Falls).

[Metro-One]

Banana Palms are different, they die back every year (so essentially they go dormant over the winter) while windmill palms and others don't.

The milder areas of the coast of BC are still the only locations in Canada I have seen where tree sized palms can be grown, outside, year round, from saplings (or even seed) without winter protection. It is also the only area where the palm's reproductive organs survive, producing fruit and creating viable off spring.

All I have seen from eastern Canada so far are extremely stunted windmill palms and / or larger ones wintered / grown indoors.

Also, if anyone knows the name pf the palm trees I took pictures of in Tofino (besides the windmill palms) please let me know! They were amazing, and I have only seen a couple stunted ones of the variety in Vancouver.

[brickell]

I don't think they're palms. Look closer to screw pines (not pines either), but those are tropicals too. I'm not sure if there's any varieties that would survive up there.

<Nitpicking> Bananas aren't palms either. They're more closely related to ginger and bird-of-paradise.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Also, if anyone knows the name pf the palm trees I took pictures of in Tofino (besides the windmill palms) please let me know! They were amazing, and I have only seen a couple stunted ones of the variety in Vancouver.

After doing more research I think it might be this, the New Zealand Cabbage Palm (again, not a real palm, but still pretty cool) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyline_australis

I remember seeing a bunch of them in London also, so it'd make sense they'd do well up your way.

[billy corgan]

There are plenty of people in the Niagara area with windmill palms, waggy palms, needle palms and sabal palms growing. We also grow southern magnolias and many other broad leafed evergreens. I'm new to gardening and Niagara but my palms have survived 3 winters now. Only protection is frost cloth to protect them from the wind. I posted pictures of my new garden earlier in the thread over a year ago. With the winters getting warmer you will see more and more cold hardy palms around Ontario.

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by billy corgan

There are plenty of people in the Niagara area with windmill palms, waggy palms, needle palms and sabal palms growing. We also grow southern magnolias and many other broad leafed evergreens. I'm new to gardening and Niagara but my palms have survived 3 winters now. Only protection is frost cloth to protect them from the wind. I posted pictures of my new garden earlier in the thread over a year ago. With the winters getting warmer you will see more and more cold hardy palms around Ontario.

Do you know if there are 5', 10 or 15' Windmill palms grown outdoors in Niagara region/St Catharines ? Even a 5' Windmill palm that survives outdoors is encouraging.

As mentioned in my previous posts, I think Windmill palms will survive outdoors in the Niagara region with minumum protection. Wonder why Niagara Parks Commision doesn't plant them outdoors ? It's easy for them (commision) to say "well they don't survive or we don't have a budget..." but imagine 10' Windmill palms make their debut in parks in the Niagara region or they line up some streets in tourist area !

Global warming: That might shift St Catharines/Niagara-On-The-Lake from 7a to 7b, Niagara Falls from 6b to 7a ...

[Toronto6A6B]

Hi Billy,

Is the 2nd picture of yours in page 4 a year ago Windmill palm (the one with a small trunk) ? And how old is it ?

That looks nice and I like palms with trunks and would like to experiment planting it in Toronto. What sort of protection did you use and from when to when (Jan/Feb) ?

My backyard is South facing with full sun expsure, I did some measurements this past week and I gained 4C compared to my front yard (North facing). So it's almost like shifting a full zone from 6ab to 7ab.

Thanks !

[subtropicalbc]

What kind of palm trees were the one in the pictures from tofino? In Richmond BC i have seen two palms on sidaway that look like the ones they grow in Southern California although in winter their covered.

[billy corgan]

Originally Posted by Toronto6A6B

Hi Billy,

Is the 2nd picture of yours in page 4 a year ago Windmill palm (the one with a small trunk) ? And how old is it ?

That looks nice and I like palms with trunks and would like to experiment planting it in Toronto. What sort of protection did you use and from when to when (Jan/Feb) ?

My backyard is South facing with full sun expsure, I did some measurements this past week and I gained 4C compared to my front yard (North facing). So it's almost like shifting a full zone from 6ab to 7ab.

Thanks !

That windmill palm has been in the ground for 2 years. It is around 5 feet tall now with 3 feet of trunk. Only protection I give is mulch at the base and burlap or frost cloth to protect it from the winter winds. This winter being so mild it continued to grow all winter long.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

There are numerous cities around the world including San Francisco where they aren't native to the area.

It does seem kind of weird, but to me they're just like adding park benches or art, etc...

I don't know what's weird about palm trees existing in a city like Vancouver with it's mild weather (albeit a fair bit of rain). I remember the city planting some palms on a median in Victoria years ago (they've flourished since) and there being a bit of an uproar over putting in a plant that wasn't indigenous to the area. I laughed knowing that palms aren't even indigenous to the city that made them famous in North America-Los Angeles.

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by billy corgan

That windmill palm has been in the ground for 2 years. It is around 5 feet tall now with 3 feet of trunk. Only protection I give is mulch at the base and burlap or frost cloth to protect it from the winter winds. This winter being so mild it continued to grow all winter long.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the response and I have a few questions ...
(1) Where did you get that windmill palm ? Did you buy it from Depot or some nursery ?
(2) How many feet was it when you planted it ? When ? In Spring ?
(3) For 2 years, do you recall if it grew 1 foot each year ?
(4) How did you protect it using burlap ? Did you wrap the trunk AND leaves with burlap ?
(5) Soil: Is it well train soil ?

Could you post some recent pictures if you have ?

Thanks !

[Toronto6A6B]

Try to post image the first time in this forum ...

I found some pictures of windmill palms grown in southern Ontario ...

From Larry Johnson in Hamilton, he posted this picture in the Weather Network, picture taken Feb 22 2012.
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/you...s/1/604800/786[IMG]

From the picture, this windmill palm was near the centre of his backyard and it didn't have any protection this winter. Hamilton Ontario is in the 6b zone, similar to downtown Toronto 6b or area near lake Ontario in Toronto.

Wait ... After viewing the picture again, there are 4 wooden posts around the palm, so there might be some protection.

Edit: I erased the other "link" that was supposed to give the just the picture of that windmill palm b/c the picture didn't come up, any idea ?

[Toronto6A6B]

Found another outdoor windmill palm grown in Grimsby On (between Hamilton and Niagara Falls).

Quote:
Jan 18 2010
This little windmill palm (in Grimsby, ON) is protected only with Freeze Pruf which the manufacturer claims buys about a half a hardiness zone. So far this palm has seen a low of -14.7 C. I'll post updates as I know more.

http://niagaratropicals.blogspot.ca/...rimsby-on.html

[Hoodrat]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, love that area, but the Thompson Valley is much drier than the Okanagan.

Anyways, I was in Tofino over the weekend (Tofino is a small beach / fishing town on the west coast of Vancouver Island, it is about a 5 hour trip from Vancouver west) and I took many pics of the palm trees they have there. In general they do not grow the windmill palm (save a few that I saw) but instead grow another variety that I have only seen a couple times in Vancouver. The couple in Vancouver are far smaller than the ones in Tofino, i believe this is because Tofino's winter is a couple degrees milder than Vancouver's (being moderated by the open Pacific Ocean and having the mountains on Vancouver Island shield the area from the worst of the winter cold spells). I am going to post a more full separate thread on Tofino soon, but here is a teaser for the palms they have there:















All pics are my own:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30634635@N03/

Cheers

Those "trunked" specimens are Cordyline australis, not a true palm.

There were thousands the size of those you posted in both Seattle/Tacoma and Vancouver that got fried during the harsh winters between 2008-2010. I also noticed that the Thanksgiving 2010 snowstorm and associated early freeze killed or seriously disfigured most of the big specimen Eucalyptus in the Seattle area also.

Cool thread, Metro1...great to see it going for so long

[Metro-One]

Thanks a bunch!

Yeah, i love taking pics of the palms (or in this case, palm like exotics) we have around the south coast of BC.

Very interesting regarding Cordyline australis. As youcan see the ones in Tofino are still thriving. Luckily the west side of vancouver Island is heavily shielded from the worst of the arctic blasts of air that can occur during the winter, such as back in the winter of 2008/2009.

I have seen a couple of these in Vancouver, BC, but they are few and far between and much smaller than they are in Tofino.

Sucks that many in Seattle and Tacoma died.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

They look just like Mediterranean Fan Palms to me.

Most people don't know that prior to the 1920's most of Calif. was palm tree free. They were imported to give LA a more exotic look. Same goes for most of Southern AZ.

I thought those tall skinny ones that are all over the LA basin were native to Southern California, but others are "imported".


These are the ones that are planted in Vancouver/BC (they're native to China):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trachycarpus_fortunei


This is the northernmost native palm (and the only one native to Europe, others were brought from elsewhere by the Greeks, Romans or Arabs):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamaerops


This is a pretty neat map showing the natural range of actual coconut palms:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...stribution.png


And my personal favorite are date palms, because dates are delicious.

[giallo]

Interesting link regarding the coconut palms. The only issue I have is with regards to East Asia. There's no way you can grow coconut palms that far north in China. Absolutely impossible. Even coastal Fujian province can get close to 0c on occasion. Only southern Guangdong province, southern Yunnan province and Hainan province can grow them.

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by giallo

Interesting link regarding the coconut palms. The only issue I have is with regards to East Asia. There's no way you can grow coconut palms that far north in China. Absolutely impossible. Even coastal Fujian province can get close to 0c on occasion. Only southern Guangdong province, southern Yunnan province and Hainan province can grow them.

And Southern Taiwan.

The map extends all the way to just South of Shanghai as region where coconut palms can be grown, I think it's a bit too much !