They can take dinsmore bridge. If they dont like it drive. I dont think its worth at this point paying for a bridge so a handful of people can go to a mall.
well there is more than a shopping mall, there is that little village whose name escapes me with all the cute little houses, the BCIT school, a number of offices next to BCIT who could all get quickly to the aberdeen station, probably easier than having to navigate their way to the templeton station
i think vancouver as a region needs more pedestrian/cyclist bridges - one over false creek or just west of burrard would be great too - even one from surrey to new west would be nice if it weren't for the height needed
well there is more than a shopping mall, there is that little village whose name escapes me with all the cute little houses, the BCIT school, a number of offices next to BCIT who could all get quickly to the aberdeen station, probably easier than having to navigate their way to the templeton station
i think vancouver as a region needs more pedestrian/cyclist bridges - one over false creek or just west of burrard would be great too - even one from surrey to new west would be nice if it weren't for the height needed
Burkeville.
Its a dumb place for an outlet mall. Its already a choke point for commuters and there's very little adjacent population. Ergo, its something Richmond will jump on (see Ironwood, Riverport etc).
I suspect the feds, YVR, and the Musqueam has greater weight in the matter than the city of Richmond. It's telling because there isn't much of a community plan for Sea Island in the 2031 vision.
Ironwood is more of a suburban mall for the south-east Richmond area. Do you rather they drive all the way to the city center for their daily needs, or drive a couple blocks to Ironwood? These kind of malls exist in every city in Metro Vancouver.
Richmond has no jurisdiction over the site where the outlet mall will be located. For reference, the concept is something that would simply not be permitted in any municipality in Metro Van as it will have a massive amount of surface parking.
And I would hardly call it a 'dumb' location. YVR has done extensive study on this, and given that the vast majority of visitors to the outlet mall will be driving in from Richmond and Vancouver, it makes sense. Again, given the massive amount of surface parking in the works, the interface and adjacent uses are almost irrelevant.
From a planning perspective I'm not in support of this mall at all, but if the objective is to capture some of the many people who are already getting in their car and driving 2 hours to Seattle premium Outlets, then at least we retain some benefit.
Richmond has no jurisdiction over the site where the outlet mall will be located. For reference, the concept is something that would simply not be permitted in any municipality in Metro Van as it will have a massive amount of surface parking.
And I would hardly call it a 'dumb' location. YVR has done extensive study on this, and given that the vast majority of visitors to the outlet mall will be driving in from Richmond and Vancouver, it makes sense. Again, given the massive amount of surface parking in the works, the interface and adjacent uses are almost irrelevant.
From a planning perspective I'm not in support of this mall at all, but if the objective is to capture some of the many people who are already getting in their car and driving 2 hours to Seattle premium Outlets, then at least we retain some benefit.
Really? Considering how much bitching over the years YVR has done about commuters clogging up "their" Arthur Laing Bridge, to turn around and build a car dependent outlet mall seems hypocritical at best, stupid at worst. Can hardly wait till the first wave of shoppers backs up onto Sea Island when the Moray Channel bridge is open, or till some high powered execs miss their flight due to shopping traffic.
Also an odd decision given YVR's rather abysmal road maintenance on Russ Baker Way. The pavement looks like its about to disintegrate.
Really? Considering how much bitching over the years YVR has done about commuters clogging up "their" Arthur Laing Bridge, to turn around and build a car dependent outlet mall seems hypocritical at best, stupid at worst. Can hardly wait till the first wave of shoppers backs up onto Sea Island when the Moray Channel bridge is open, or till some high powered execs miss their flight due to shopping traffic.
The people targeted by this mall will be mostly arriving via the No. 2 Road bridge, which has tons of unused capacity, not any of those other routes that you mentioned. It's clearly aimed at residents of west Richmond, most of whom already drive past this location 10+ times per week.
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Also an odd decision given YVR's rather abysmal road maintenance on Russ Baker Way. The pavement looks like its about to disintegrate.
A separate issue worthy of its own thread. The general state of roads all over Sea Island is abysmal.
Not as bad as Knight Street through Richmond, that probably has the worst pot holed surface of any major road in Metro-Vancouver.
As for this development, I find it strange how so many are against this mall for being out of the way, but not the horrid development in Tsawwassen that is not only completely out of the way, but will eat up lots of once ALR. If anything, this mall is better connected to the urban area of our metro than the other one.
Wow... colonizing BC really comes at a high price... first we pay the natives literally, now we pay again by having shit urbanism unilaterally imposed on Richmond and Tsawassen.
I do hope that the Tsawwassen outlet mall takes this outlet mall in to account and vice versa. Once again not a expert but I would suspect that the catchment area for outlet malls is pretty big and these two malls will be cutting in to each others profit margins. Plus there is the outlet mall in Queensborough. Maybe the tunnel is enough of a choke point to reduce the impact these two malls will have on each others bottom lines and the Tsawwassen one will draw people from Delta and Surrey(though I thought there must be outlet malls in Surrey or Langley no?).
Regardless will be interesting to see what will happen as the airport one will be the first one built no? Maybe the Tsawwassen band will need to look at their business case again and tweak it.
Anyways as far as outlet malls go, they are kind of a necessity IMO, not having one within a reasonable distance would be a decent negative IMO even if I dont go to outlet malls very often. They provide a whole different service from regular retail malls that most people want and do use. If there is a good location for a outlet mall in metro Vancouver I would think this is the best possible one out there.
1)Cloe to downtown
2)Surrounded by the urban core, downtown Richmond and Vancouver
3)Next to YVR, the largest(?) employment hub in the region which will always draw a fair share of car traffic, and makes residential less then suitable in the area.
4)Next to a major commuting thoroughfare which piles of people pass daily already.
5)Close enough to the 99 and the Connector with decent access.
6)Decently close to rapid transit.
&)...im sure there other reasons i can think off.
^The two malls will be very different and I don't think they are necessarily focusing on the same target market to succeed.
The YVR outlet mall will be targeting more of the higher end/luxury brands and will have a more unique design, somewhat similar to Seattle Premium outlets but with higher quality architecture. While they will have a fairly large catchment area, their focus will be drawing people from Richmond and Vancouver.
Wow... colonizing BC really comes at a high price... first we pay the natives literally, now we pay again by having shit urbanism unilaterally imposed on Richmond and Tsawassen.
I do hope that the Tsawwassen outlet mall takes this outlet mall in to account and vice versa. Once again not a expert but I would suspect that the catchment area for outlet malls is pretty big and these two malls will be cutting in to each others profit margins. Plus there is the outlet mall in Queensborough. Maybe the tunnel is enough of a choke point to reduce the impact these two malls will have on each others bottom lines and the Tsawwassen one will draw people from Delta and Surrey(though I thought there must be outlet malls in Surrey or Langley no?).
South Surrey at Highway 99 and 24th Avenue there is one "Granview Corners", and it is built a little different than your traditional big box mall. Google Street View
Wow... colonizing BC really comes at a high price... first we pay the natives literally, now we pay again by having shit urbanism unilaterally imposed on Richmond and Tsawassen.
Dont forget the newest addition...Jesken Shopping Centre in Sidney just south of the Swartz Bay Terminal. 650,000 sqft. It's on the Tsawout First Nation Land.
Wow... colonizing BC really comes at a high price... first we pay the natives literally, now we pay again by having shit urbanism unilaterally imposed on Richmond and Tsawassen.
Yeah I don't get that. How can the natives just go ahead and build whatever they want on their land? Weird.
I didn't realize another Canada Line station was planned:
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Vancouver Airport Authority opposed to Richmond high-rise developments
By Tara Carman, Vancouver SunFebruary 21, 2012 9:06 PM
The Vancouver Airport Authority is opposing plans for new highrise developments in the Capstan Village area of Richmond, saying residents would be disturbed by too much aircraft noise.
Richmond staff have recommended that council approve the rezoning applications under terms which offer the two developers, Concord Pacific and Pinnacle, bonus density in exchange for helping to finance a Canada Line station at Capstan Way.
Concord Pacific proposes to build 1,245 new residences, of which 81 would be low-end market rental or affordable units, near the intersection of Patterson and Sexsmith roads. The other developer, Pinnacle, is proposing 200 new residences, of which 13 would be affordable units, near Sexsmith and Capstan. The buildings will be of varying heights up to a maximum of 16 storeys.
However, Transport Canada has deemed the area incompatible with new residential development due to high levels of aircraft noise, said Anne Murray, YVR’s vice-president of community and environmental affairs.
“We don’t recommend that there be new residential development. Transport Canada doesn’t recommend that and we want to make sure we point that out to the City of Richmond,” Murray said in an interview.
Richmond’s official community plan has its own guidelines for what’s called aircraft noise sensitive development and the proposed residences are in a permitted area under those rules, as long as developers take steps to minimize noise transmission.
It's always been the plan. The fact that YVR is going on record with it's concerns is interesting, could lead to potential suits against the city at a later date. Hopefully Richmond puts a covenant on the title stating the noise issue to protect itself from potential future problems.
I can't imagine the future residents of this development having any say on what goes on up in the air or on yvr (federal owned property). What would they say, "fly aircraft only on certain times of the day"? YVR can do whatever they want despite what future residents may complain about. So why would YVR care when these people won't be able do anything about it?
Makes no sense. There's already multiple towers springing up in the Capstan Way/Bridgeport area, and from what I know there isn't really much protests about plane noises. If anything, the buyers should expect it buying a flat near the airport. I suppose Burkeville shouldn't even exist if the noises were that bad. Seriously, the bulk of Richmond's city centre isn't much farther nor any less quieter than the area around the Capstan Way proposal, so this criticism seems off-mark.
I think it's more YVR's way of saying "plane noises aren't our problems, so if you got any trouble with it don't look to us at fixing it".
As for the Natives issue, again I don't see why there exist a completely different set of rules that only applies to them when everyone else settles for common law. This is especially true when there can be adverse affects for the people nearby, who unlike the Native bands, actually live near the said area as oppose to historic claims based on colonial injustice. Like it or not, the majority of the people living here now are not Native people, and as such laws need to put that into account.
In many cases, these developments don't even help the average Native person, but instead helping to fill the coffers of the various chiefs and wealthy Native entrepreneurs. There still a bigger than average proportion of Natives in poverty, or stuck in a rut of alcoholism/drug addiction, and frankly I don't think the current land system is going to fix any of that. If anything, it creates a stereotype that the average Native person simply looks for hand outs and is protected by political correctness, which is a very bad thing for many hard working tribe members cherishes their traditions at the same time looking to integrate in modern society.
Again, I am very much against this proposed outlet on Sea Island as much as the one in Tsawassen, just as I am against auto-centric developments created by corporates/governments. The ownership shouldn't matter in criticizing it from an urbanist point of view.
As for the Natives issue, again I don't see why there exist a completely different set of rules that only applies to them when everyone else settles for common law.
This is very much off-topic, but what you suggest is exactly the aim of the treaty process. The reason why a different set of rules exist is purely because of the absence of treaties. Under a treaty, a band will generally have the same rules as everyone else, plus self-governance roughly equivalent to a municipal government. We are a long way off from having negotiated treaties with all bands, but the process started by Campbell should get us there.
It's always been the plan. The fact that YVR is going on record with it's concerns is interesting, could lead to potential suits against the city at a later date. Hopefully Richmond puts a covenant on the title stating the noise issue to protect itself from potential future problems.
Richmond has a long and gloriously stupid history of trying to " kill the goose that laid the golden egg" syndrome when it comes to YVR.
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I dont think its worth at this point paying for a bridge so a handful of people can go to a mall.
Not as bad as Knight Street through Richmond, that probably has the worst pot holed surface of any major road in Metro-Vancouver.
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